Motor Oil As Chain Lube: Any Tricks?

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

According to Bicycling magazine, motor oil will wreck your chain.
http://www.ehow.com/list_6327555_lubricants-bicycle-gears-_amp_-chain...
* *"Bicycling Magazine" says to never use motor oil because "it
* *contains acids and particles of metal that can compromise a
* *chain's strength and cause it to wear more quickly."
So it is written, so it must be.

Man, it must be murder on automotive timing chains.

Not.

Chalo

Dan O wrote:
On Mar 27, 11:41 am, landotter wrote:
On Mar 27, 1:34 pm, Jay Beattie wrote:



On Mar 27, 10:07 am, landotter wrote:
On Mar 27, 11:24 am, "(PeteCresswell)" wrote: After seeing the price of my favored bike-specific chain lube
recently rise to $8.00 for four ounces, I'm thinking of going
back to plain old motor oil - the kind that I can get by
inverting the empties after changing the oil in my car.
But the bike-specific stuff *is* nice: penetrates, doesn't seem
to attract as much dirt.
Are there any workarounds with regular motor oil?
First thing that comes to mind is thinning it with something
that's not too nasty.
--
The problem is the detergent, IMHO. Use cheap single viscosity oil.
Transmission fluid is good as well.
That said, I've become enamored with WL "Wet Ride" lube. Rode it all
winter, never cleaned anything. Dead silent, and an application lasts
me over a month. That's with every day commuting. It's like an amalgam
of Mobil One and grape jelly.
This winter, I have used that cheap DuPont wax-based teflon spray
lube, a can of Liquid Wrench brand spray lube off the sale table at an
ACE store, 10W30, WD40 (a can was sitting near the garage door). I
have a big thing of chain saw bar oil, but I haven't used that . . .
yet.
Getting fussy about lubricants around here is a waste of time since
everything gets washed off in two rides. On some days, I'm going
through puddles that are practically up to my BB. But . . . with that
said . . . if I were a rich person, that Wet Ride is very nice. So is
Boeshield and even the ProLink, which is lighter and works well.
That's a nice summer oil.
And to answer the question, downside of 10W30 is that it is gunky; it
attracts dirt and will fly off your chain. Wipe well after
application. -- Jay Beattie.
I've gone six months on one ounce of Wet Ride. I like the spray wax as
well, but it lasts one ride in the winter. The WR, compared to regular
oil, does have an evaporative base, and seems to get a peak dirty at
about a week, compared to motor oil which gets infinitely gloppy.

But I'll use whatever is on the shelf. The only lube I actively
dislike is ProLink, it's too light for my tastes, you can really hear
the chain when you use that stuff.

I bought a 4 oz bottle of Dumonde Tech - back when I started riding
year round in rainy Oregon. The 4 oz bottle is almost (not quite)
gone now, but I've also used a little of the 2 oz bottle that I bought
to carry in my tool bag (otherwise, when the rain comes heavily, it
can wash out the chain and make for a long, squeaky ride home).

The Dumonde Tech is expensive, makes a gunky mess, sticnks to high
heaven, is tedious to apply, but does work very well.

Dumonde is a very good chain lube. Salty slush removes it
just like everything else. In hospitable climes, we like it.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Mar 27, 5:24*pm, "(PeteCresswell)" wrote:
After seeing the price of my favored bike-specific chain lube
recently rise to $8.00 for four ounces, I'm thinking of going
back to plain old motor oil - the kind that I can get by
inverting the empties after changing the oil in my car.

But the bike-specific stuff *is* nice: penetrates, doesn't seem
to attract as much dirt.

Are there any workarounds with regular motor oil?

First thing that comes to mind is thinning it with something
that's not too nasty.
--
PeteCresswell

Put the cleaned chain in a clean can, cover with oil and bake at a low
setting, preferably for a few hours. The heat is conducive not only
to get the lubricant between the gaps but also boils off water and
gets the oil working as it should by plating the bearing components
with any special high pressure additives and oiling the surface (like
a frypan needs to prevent food sticking).

On Sun, 27 Mar 2011 13:17:36 -0700 (PDT), Chalo
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

According to Bicycling magazine, motor oil will wreck your chain.
http://www.ehow.com/list_6327555_lubricants-bicycle-gears-_amp_-chain...
* *"Bicycling Magazine" says to never use motor oil because "it
* *contains acids and particles of metal that can compromise a
* *chain's strength and cause it to wear more quickly."
So it is written, so it must be.

Man, it must be murder on automotive timing chains.
Not.
Chalo

I wonder what brand of motor oil comes from the refinery pre-loaded
with acids and metal particles? Used motor oil perhaps?

Here's the original article from Bicycling:
http://books.google.com/books?id=wsUDAAAAMBAJ&pg=RA1-PA106&lpg=RA1-PA106
Yep, that's a quote.

Most cars these daze use timing belts, not chains. The vintage
automotive timing chains I've seen have a chain tensioner (idler or
hydraulic cylinder) to allow the timing chain to wear gracefully.
However, the trucks seem to favor timing chains.

Mo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roller_chain

I've noticed more sproket wear than chain wear on the poorly
maintained bicycles I've resurrected. (Disclaimer: I are NOT an
expert bicycle mechanic). Efforts to thin the oil sufficiently to
penetrate the links, such thinning, will not do well to lubricate the
sproket, where something more viscous would be better. Methinks a
drip oiler would be a big help, but I haven't seen any on bicycles.
http://www.google.com/images?q=drip+oiler
http://www.google.com/images?q=brush+oiler

I suspect that alternatives to the chain and sproket might be worth
investigating. In particular, a belt drive would work well with the
new single speed bicycle fad. For example:
Posi-Driv:
http://www.sdp-si.com/D785/PDF/D785Belt172.PDF
and various cable drive variations:
http://sdp-si.com/web/html/newprdbelts6.htm
With no internal parts to be lubricated, an external brush or drip
lube should work nicely (and weigh much less). Besides lubing the
chain, a brush would also remove much of the crud. Granted, a cable
drive might not last as long, stretch more, and will initially be more
expensive, but it's still worth investigating.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 27 Mar 2011 13:17:36 -0700 (PDT), Chalo
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
According to Bicycling magazine, motor oil will wreck your chain.
http://www.ehow.com/list_6327555_lubricants-bicycle-gears-_amp_-chain...
"Bicycling Magazine" says to never use motor oil because "it
contains acids and particles of metal that can compromise a
chain's strength and cause it to wear more quickly."
So it is written, so it must be.

Man, it must be murder on automotive timing chains.
Not.
Chalo

I wonder what brand of motor oil comes from the refinery pre-loaded
with acids and metal particles? Used motor oil perhaps?

Here's the original article from Bicycling:
http://books.google.com/books?id=wsUDAAAAMBAJ&pg=RA1-PA106&lpg=RA1-PA106
Yep, that's a quote.

Most cars these daze use timing belts, not chains. The vintage
automotive timing chains I've seen have a chain tensioner (idler or
hydraulic cylinder) to allow the timing chain to wear gracefully.
However, the trucks seem to favor timing chains.

Mo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roller_chain

I've noticed more sproket wear than chain wear on the poorly
maintained bicycles I've resurrected. (Disclaimer: I are NOT an
expert bicycle mechanic). Efforts to thin the oil sufficiently to
penetrate the links, such thinning, will not do well to lubricate the
sproket, where something more viscous would be better. Methinks a
drip oiler would be a big help, but I haven't seen any on bicycles.
http://www.google.com/images?q=drip+oiler
http://www.google.com/images?q=brush+oiler

I suspect that alternatives to the chain and sproket might be worth
investigating. In particular, a belt drive would work well with the
new single speed bicycle fad. For example:
Posi-Driv:
http://www.sdp-si.com/D785/PDF/D785Belt172.PDF
and various cable drive variations:
http://sdp-si.com/web/html/newprdbelts6.htm
With no internal parts to be lubricated, an external brush or drip
lube should work nicely (and weigh much less). Besides lubing the
chain, a brush would also remove much of the crud. Granted, a cable
drive might not last as long, stretch more, and will initially be more
expensive, but it's still worth investigating.



This from Jobst may be helpful:
http://draco.nac.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8d.1.html

and the subsequent sections on the same topic

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sun, 27 Mar 2011 13:38:38 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six
wrote:

Put the cleaned chain in a clean can, cover with oil and bake at a low
setting, preferably for a few hours. The heat is conducive not only
to get the lubricant between the gaps but also boils off water and
gets the oil working as it should by plating the bearing components
with any special high pressure additives and oiling the surface (like
a frypan needs to prevent food sticking).

Dumb and marginal question: How is the lubricant going to penetrate
into the pin and sleeve bushing area of the chain, where it's needed?

The small space between the pin and sleeve is going to already be
filled with oil and metal shavings (from the sleeve). Applying heat,
pressure, or magic equally from both ends of the sleeve will only
barely compress the oil and metal shavings slightly. In order to get
the old oil out, and new oil in, pressure must be applied from one
side, thus pushing the old oil out, and the new oil in. I haven't
found any way to do this on bicycle chain without an elaborate
fixture. Granted, it's possible to dissolve out some of the old oil
using solvents, but if any solvent or diluted oil remains, it's
effectively permanent because the replacement oil still can't displace
it.

To convince myself, I took a really old and dirty chain, and removed
some of the pins with a chain tool. As expected, dirty oil and metal
shavings (as seen under a microscope). I then took about a 6 in
length of this chain, and did the hot oil trick. It's been many
years, and I don't recall what I used for oil. My guess is 10 wt
motor oil with diazo red dye. After wiping off the outside of the
chain with soap and water, I again removed some of the pins, and found
old oil (without the red dye) and dirt, on the pin and bushing. Bottom
line... the new oil did NOT penetrate the pin and bushing area.

The next test was to see if solvents helped on a different length of
the same chain. This was a rather worn chain, so there should have
been plenty of space for the solvent to enter the pin and bushing
area. I used (cheap) paint thinner, but no heat (to avoid a fire).
After the paint thinner had evaporated, I did the hot oil trick in the
same manner as my previous test. This time, it sorta worked. Upon
removing a few pins, I found some new red dye oil inside. The problem
was that there really wasn't complete coating of the insides of the
pin and bushing. Something was preventing the oil from entering. My
guess was trapped air or remaining old oil.

I repeated the above test on yet another length of the same chain.
Same ritual, but this time I flexed the chain and agitated the oil
while the chain was still immersed in the hot oil. I also removed it
briefly, and twisted the chain in both directions. That worked and I
had 100% coating of the pin and bushing.

Please note that this was not a controlled experiment, but rather an
afternoon backyard sloppy test. It was also NOT repeated or verified
by anyone. It should therefore be treated as anecdotal (but
interesting).

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 3/27/2011 9:24 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
After seeing the price of my favored bike-specific chain lube
recently rise to $8.00 for four ounces, I'm thinking of going
back to plain old motor oil - the kind that I can get by
inverting the empties after changing the oil in my car.

But the bike-specific stuff *is* nice: penetrates, doesn't seem
to attract as much dirt.

Are there any workarounds with regular motor oil?

First thing that comes to mind is thinning it with something
that's not too nasty.

Use single weight SAE30, not 10W30.

On 3/27/2011 9:24 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
--
PeteCresswell

See http://nordicgroup.us/chain/.

On Mar 27, 12:24*pm, "(PeteCresswell)" wrote:

... I'm thinking of going back to plain old motor oil ...

.... and Pete set off the usual run of controversy.

As usual, all the posts miss the most important point! That point was
well stated by Sheldon Brown in http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chains.html,
where he stated that chain lubrication is "A Religious Question."

With that in mind, the most important point is NOT the viscosity, nor
the solvents, nor the heating, nor the agitation, nor the acids, nor
the presence of "10W" before the "30."

The most important point is getting your chain lubricant properly
blessed! It's my belief that properly blessed chain lubricant can
reduce chain wear up to 85%.

So let's address the _real_ question: Should the lube be blessed by a
priest, a minister, a rabbi, an imam, a shaman, a druid, or...?

- Frank Krygowski

Dan O wrote:
On Mar 27, 11:43 am, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Lubricants Used for Bicycle Gears & Chains | eHow.com
http://www.ehow.com/list_6327555_lubricants-bicycle-gears-_amp_-chain...

I like the idea of using olive oil. It's fairly sticky, smells good,
ecologically correct, and has other uses if it doesn't work on the
bicycle chain (I prefer extra virgin).

I like this idea! Gonna give it a try. Thanks!

Why not used deep fry oil from your local fish and chippery?

Careful the local cats don't lick it all off before you ride ;-)

JS.