Motor Oil As Chain Lube: Any Tricks?

On 3/27/2011 6:09 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
The most important point is getting your chain lubricant properly
blessed! It's my belief that properly blessed chain lubricant can
reduce chain wear up to 85%.

And up to 70% reduction in wear on other components.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

On Mar 27, 6:52*pm, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
[snip]

Commandment #11. *Thou shalt not oil a dirty chain.


So one is supposed to have short episodes of clean chain that do
little to extend the life of it, why?

On Mar 28, 12:15*am, James wrote:
Dan O wrote:
On Mar 27, 11:43 am, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Lubricants Used for Bicycle Gears & Chains | eHow.com
http://www.ehow.com/list_6327555_lubricants-bicycle-gears-_amp_-chain....

I like the idea of using olive oil. *It's fairly sticky, smells good,
ecologically correct, and has other uses if it doesn't work on the
bicycle chain (I prefer extra virgin).

I like this idea! *Gonna give it a try. *Thanks!

Why not used deep fry oil from your local fish and chippery?

Corn oils will gum, ene easier after being heated.



Careful the local cats don't lick it all off before you ride ;-)

JS.

On Mar 27, 4:15 pm, James wrote:
Dan O wrote:
On Mar 27, 11:43 am, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Lubricants Used for Bicycle Gears & Chains | eHow.com
http://www.ehow.com/list_6327555_lubricants-bicycle-gears-_amp_-chain...

I like the idea of using olive oil. It's fairly sticky, smells good,
ecologically correct, and has other uses if it doesn't work on the
bicycle chain (I prefer extra virgin).

I like this idea! Gonna give it a try. Thanks!

Why not used deep fry oil from your local fish and chippery?


I was thinking particularly of the little bottle I carry with me. I
rarely need it to oil chain on the road, but it would serve that
occasional need, and then there are the other uses... :-)

Careful the local cats don't lick it all off before you ride ;-)


Hmmm... I wonder might that actually be a concern if I park the bike
with a blend of tasty and toxic oils on it.

On Mar 27, 10:57*pm, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 27 Mar 2011 13:17:36 -0700 (PDT), Chalo

wrote:
Jeff Liebermann wrote:

According to Bicycling magazine, motor oil will wreck your chain.
http://www.ehow.com/list_6327555_lubricants-bicycle-gears-_amp_-chain....
"Bicycling Magazine" says to never use motor oil because "it
contains acids and particles of metal that can compromise a
chain's strength and cause it to wear more quickly."
So it is written, so it must be.
Man, it must be murder on automotive timing chains.
Not.
Chalo

I wonder what brand of motor oil comes from the refinery pre-loaded
with acids and metal particles? *Used motor oil perhaps? *

Here's the original article from Bicycling:
http://books.google.com/books?id=wsUDAAAAMBAJ&pg=RA1-PA106&lpg=RA1-PA106
Yep, that's a quote.

Most cars these daze use timing belts, not chains.

Ah but the dream must live on.

*The vintage
automotive timing chains I've seen have a chain tensioner (idler or
hydraulic cylinder) to allow the timing chain to wear gracefully.
However, the trucks seem to favor timing chains.

Mo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roller_chain

I've noticed more sproket wear than chain wear on the poorly
maintained bicycles I've resurrected. *(Disclaimer: *I are NOT an
expert bicycle mechanic). *Efforts to thin the oil sufficiently to
penetrate the links, such thinning, will not do well to lubricate the
sproket, where something more viscous would be better. *Methinks a
drip oiler would be a big help, but I haven't seen any on bicycles.

Niether do they do too well with motorcycles, despite the claims that
have been brandished.

http://www.google.com/images?q=drip+oiler
http://www.google.com/images?q=brush+oiler

I suspect that alternatives to the chain and sproket might be worth
investigating. *In particular, a belt drive would work well with the
new single speed bicycle fad. *For example:

It's a concept which keeps popping up. Particularly important for
those who prefer designer jeans.

Posi-Driv:
http://www.sdp-si.com/D785/PDF/D785Belt172.PDF
and various cable drive variations:
http://sdp-si.com/web/html/newprdbelts6.htm
With no internal parts to be lubricated, an external brush or drip
lube should work nicely (and weigh much less). *Besides lubing the
chain, a brush would also remove much of the crud. *Granted, a cable
drive might not last as long, stretch more, and will initially be more
expensive, but it's still worth investigating. *

Yes, cables wear, quickly in comparison to the well lubricated roller
chain.

--
Jeff Liebermann * *
150 Felker St #D * *http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann * * AE6KS * *831-336-2558

On Mar 27, 11:26*pm, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 27 Mar 2011 13:38:38 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six

wrote:
Put the cleaned chain in a clean can, cover with oil and bake at a low
setting, preferably for a few hours. *The heat is conducive not only
to get the lubricant between the gaps but also boils off water and
gets the oil working as it should by plating the bearing components
with any special high pressure additives and oiling the surface (like
a frypan needs to prevent food sticking).

Dumb and marginal question: *How is the lubricant going to penetrate
into the pin and sleeve bushing area of the chain, where it's needed?

Your right, it is a dumb question. Read the third word which you
quoted.


The small space between the pin and sleeve is going to already be
filled with oil and metal shavings (from the sleeve). *Applying heat,
pressure, or magic equally from both ends of the sleeve will only
barely compress the oil and metal shavings slightly. *In order to get
the old oil out, and new oil in, pressure must be applied from one
side, thus pushing the old oil out, and the new oil in. *I haven't
found any way to do this on bicycle chain without an elaborate
fixture. *Granted, it's possible to dissolve out some of the old oil
using solvents, but if any solvent or diluted oil remains, it's
effectively permanent because the replacement oil still can't displace
it.

When that solvent is also a lubricant, the trace quantities which
remain don't matter and the applied heat will drive off the less
desirable volatile fractions. Paraffin oil (kero) leaves behind a wax
once the volatiles have been removed. Wax is desirous in maintaining
some method of containment of the lubricating oil.

To convince myself, I took a really old and dirty chain, and removed
some of the pins with a chain tool. *As expected, dirty oil and metal
shavings (as seen under a microscope). *I then took about a 6 in
length of this chain, and did the hot oil trick. *It's been many
years, and I don't recall what I used for oil. *My guess is 10 wt
motor oil with diazo red dye. *After wiping off the outside of the
chain with soap and water, I again removed some of the pins, and found
old oil (without the red dye) and dirt, on the pin and bushing. Bottom
line... the new oil did NOT penetrate the pin and bushing area.

You missed the word "cleaned" again.

The next test was to see if solvents helped on a different length of
the same chain. *This was a rather worn chain, so there should have
been plenty of space for the solvent to enter the pin and bushing
area. *I used (cheap) paint thinner, but no heat (to avoid a fire).
After the paint thinner had evaporated, I did the hot oil trick in the
same manner as my previous test. *This time, it sorta worked. *Upon
removing a few pins, I found some new red dye oil inside. *The problem
was that there really wasn't complete coating of the insides of the
pin and bushing. *Something was preventing the oil from entering. *My
guess was trapped air or remaining old oil.

You wash the chain with the paraffin or diesel, leaving it to
evaporate leaves the dirt in place, the chain must be jiggled and
lifted from the light oil.

I repeated the above test on yet another length of the same chain.
Same ritual, but this time I flexed the chain and agitated the oil
while the chain was still immersed in the hot oil. *I also removed it
briefly, and twisted the chain in both directions. *That worked and I
had 100% coating of the pin and bushing.

Hoorah.

Please note that this was not a controlled experiment, but rather an
afternoon backyard sloppy test. *It was also NOT repeated or verified
by anyone. *It should therefore be treated as anecdotal (but
interesting).



Only that it's pretty much the standard method for a chain to oulast
the winter with high milage and little attention.

Dan O wrote:
On Mar 27, 4:15 pm, James wrote:

Why not used deep fry oil from your local fish and chippery?
Careful the local cats don't lick it all off before you ride ;-)


Hmmm... I wonder might that actually be a concern if I park the bike
with a blend of tasty and toxic oils on it.

That depends on your point of view.

JS.

On Mar 28, 2:28*am, James wrote:
Dan O wrote:
On Mar 27, 4:15 pm, James wrote:
Why not used deep fry oil from your local fish and chippery?
Careful the local cats don't lick it all off before you ride ;-)

Hmmm... I wonder might that actually be a concern if I park the bike
with a blend of tasty and toxic oils on it.

That depends on your point of view.

JS.

Dogs don't care to read medical journals. If it's tasty it's good.
They also have a highly refined sense of taste which detects obnoxious
substances generally.

BM sells bike stuff

On 3/27/2011 3:26 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

snip

The next test was to see if solvents helped on a different length of
the same chain. This was a rather worn chain, so there should have
been plenty of space for the solvent to enter the pin and bushing
area. I used (cheap) paint thinner, but no heat (to avoid a fire).
After the paint thinner had evaporated, I did the hot oil trick in the
same manner as my previous test. This time, it sorta worked. Upon
removing a few pins, I found some new red dye oil inside. The problem
was that there really wasn't complete coating of the insides of the
pin and bushing. Something was preventing the oil from entering. My
guess was trapped air or remaining old oil.

One of the biggest problems with chain cleaning and oiling is that the
pin and bushings are often not in motion while the cleaning and oiling
is taking place.

If you use a chain cleaning machine, and repeatedly change the solvent,
eventually most of the old dirt and oil is removed, and the solvent will
evaporate (and remember to NEVER use a water-based solvent).

As Sheldon Brown writes, "The on-the-bike system has the advantage that
the cleaning machine flexes the links and spins the rollers. This
scrubbing action may do a better job of cleaning the innards." Another
advantage is that keeping the chain on the bicycle eliminates weakening
the chain by rivet extraction. As Sheldon Brown writes, "...modern
chains have rivets that are tighter fitting into the chain plates. The
new rivets are difficult to remove and reinstall without damaging either
the rivet or the side plate."

You can oil the chain in the same way, without removing it from the
bicycle, running it through an oil bath in the chain cleaning tool.

The other lubrication alternative is to use a foaming motorcycle chain
lube for non-O-Ring chains. This penetrates into the pin and sleeve.

Amusingly, many people oil their chain in a way so that the outside of
the chain is very oily, and the oil gets all over their socks and legs,
while there is almost no oil between the pin and sleeve.

Also, avoid chain waxing at all costs. You can see the comments of
bicycle shop owners and mechanics about waxing, including Sheldon's,
Jobst's, and Mike's.

"When wax was popular, we'd get customers coming in all the time
complaining about shifting problems on their bikes. Removed the wax and
lubed with conventional stuff and voila, shifting back to normal." Mike
Jacoubowsky, co-owner of Chain Reaction Bicycles.

"Wax is not mobile and cannot return to a location from which it has
been removed by rotation of one part on another." Jobst Brandt, author
of The Bicycle Wheel.

"Downsides of the wax approach include the fact that it is a great deal
of trouble, and that wax is probably not as good a lubricant as oil or
grease." Sheldon Brown.