Extra-Large Toe Clips ?

Per Duane Hebert:
In my first reply in this thread I asked why not use clipless pedals.

With clipless, it's partially not wanting to pay the dues (a few
face plants until I get the hang of it) and partially not wanting
to have to wear special shoes.
--
PeteCresswell

On 5/22/2011 8:58 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Duane Hebert:
In my first reply in this thread I asked why not use clipless pedals.
With clipless, it's partially not wanting to pay the dues (a few
face plants until I get the hang of it) and partially not wanting
to have to wear special shoes.
OK I was just curious.

In article
,
Chalo wrote:

Duane Hebert wrote:

Joy Beeson wrote:

Duane Hebert wrote:

There are some suggestions below but out of curiosity, why not use
clipless pedals?

They don't work with walking shoes.

Which is why I'm still using slot cleats -- it's essential that I
change into walking shoes when I'm riding inside city limits, and
changing pedals is much harder than changing shoes.

I use SPD pedals and Shimano MO75 shoes.http://www.mtbr.com/cat/mtb-apparel-...s/shimano/sh-m...

The shoes have recessed cleats that you can walk in.

When I used clipless, I used "walkable" shoes. But they're not
walking shoes; they are just something you can walk on.

I used to use toe clips but for them to be effective they have to be
tight and getting out of them quickly was problematic.

I think "effective" in Pete's case is about keeping feet in position,
which doesn't even require straps, let alone tight straps. Why
encumber your feet for how you ride 99% of the time (not pulling) for
the sake of how you ride 1% of the time (pulling up on pedals)?

Using no foot restraints promotes good form and gives you instant
feedback for how much you're unloading the rising leg. Using bindings
lets you be in denial about fighting your legs one against the other,
or whether you actually lift your leg over or only believe you lift
your leg over. Just right for the triathlon/charity-ride tyro who
won't take the time to build good form anyway; not so good for the
daily rider.

The big advantage is not power coupling to the pedal.
Safety is the big advantage. My feet will not slip
off the pedal. I do not have to devote effort or
attention to keeping my feet on the pedals while
pedaling, or cornering, or keeping the rubber side
down in traffic. Click in pedal-cleat systems are
a huge win for the casual cyclist. Getting our of
the pedal when necessary is simple, particularly
when the retention force is set low.

--
Michael Press

In article ,
"(PeteCresswell)" wrote:

Per Duane Hebert:
In my first reply in this thread I asked why not use clipless pedals.

With clipless, it's partially not wanting to pay the dues (a few
face plants until I get the hang of it) and partially not wanting
to have to wear special shoes.

Set the retention force to minimum.

--
Michael Press

On May 22, 4:02*pm, Chalo wrote:
Duane Hebert wrote:

Joy Beeson wrote:

Duane Hebert wrote:

There are some suggestions below but out of curiosity, why not use
clipless pedals?

They don't work with walking shoes.

Which is why I'm still using slot cleats -- it's essential that I
change into walking shoes when I'm riding inside city limits, and
changing pedals is much harder than changing shoes.

I use SPD pedals and Shimano MO75 shoes.http://www.mtbr.com/cat/mtb-apparel-...s/shimano/sh-m...

The shoes have recessed cleats that you can walk in.

When I used clipless, I used "walkable" shoes. *But they're not
walking shoes; they are just something you can walk on.

Are they for wheelchair users?

I used to use toe clips but for them to be effective they have to be
tight and getting out of them quickly was problematic.

I think "effective" in Pete's case is about keeping feet in position,
which doesn't even require straps, let alone tight straps. *Why
encumber your feet for how you ride 99% of the time (not pulling) for
the sake of how you ride 1% of the time (pulling up on pedals)?

Using no foot restraints promotes good form and gives you instant
feedback for how much you're unloading the rising leg. *Using bindings
lets you be in denial about fighting your legs one against the other,
or whether you actually lift your leg over or only believe you lift
your leg over. *Just right for the triathlon/charity-ride tyro who
won't take the time to build good form anyway; not so good for the
daily rider.

Until co-ordination or skill in lifting the back leg has set in, it is
good to use a foot restraint of some sort. For the greatest
efficiency the rear foot to pedal pressure is completely removed.
With developed skill in light pedalling, it is still not the easiest
thing to keep ones feet located over the pedal. It is best to let the
crank and pedal move the foot back and forth using no muscles in the
rear leg to maintain pedal location. A slotted cleat and clip are
ideal for this.

On May 22, 6:08*pm, "(PeteCresswell)" wrote:
Per Chalo:

I think "effective" in Pete's case is about keeping feet in position,
which doesn't even require straps, let alone tight straps.

Yes on the first, no on the second.

The feet tend to go off the sides of the pedal. * Part of it is
not having much feeling down there, but part of it is probably an
exaggerated Q factor. * Normal pedaling, BMX flats, no straps...
every time I look down the feet have placed themselves about an
inch outboard of center on the pedal. *Yeah, I move them in...
but left to their own they migrate right back... *

I think it's analogous to my saddle placement theory: one's butt
just finds the right spot and the saddle needs tb moved to that
spot.

But extending the Q factor seems problematic to me. * I've heard
from people who swear by those 1" extenders that go between crank
and pedal - but mechanically it just doesn't look right to me.
Also I'm heavy at about 220#. *Having broken a chain under load
once, I don't want the chance of a pedal shearing off when I'm
lunging up a hill. * So that leaves constraining the feet to
something approximating being centered on the pedal....

Can you withstand a higher saddle, that usually brings the feet in?
If you can run, you should notice that your tread becomes narrower
than when walking, so it is not unnatural to use a narrower tread than
when walking.

The kludge I showed in the pix actually works. * The straps are
kept quite loose bc that's all it takes to keep the feet from
wandering - and it's easier to get in/out of them.
--
PeteCresswell

Michael Press wrote:

*Chalo wrote:

Using no foot restraints promotes good form and gives you instant
feedback for how much you're unloading the rising leg. *Using bindings
lets you be in denial about fighting your legs one against the other,
or whether you actually lift your leg over or only believe you lift
your leg over. *Just right for the triathlon/charity-ride tyro who
won't take the time to build good form anyway; not so good for the
daily rider.

The big advantage is not power coupling to the pedal.
Safety is the big advantage. My feet will not slip
off the pedal.

Your feet can definitely pop out of bindings-- and they are likely to
have some serious impulse behind them when they do. That's an easier
way to get hurt than just stepping or slipping off. So is being
trapped in your binding when you need to get out.

I do not have to devote effort or
attention to keeping my feet on the pedals while
pedaling, or cornering, or keeping the rubber side
down in traffic.

And in this case what you don't have to learn, you probably won't.
Most of us here learned to push pedals in earnest before the
widespread use of foot restraints, so we take many sensible habits for
granted.

Click in pedal-cleat systems are
a huge win for the casual cyclist.

Only when "casual" is defined to mean so non-committed as to never
acquire decent pedaling form or habits. And I argue that such an
incompetent noob cyclist is better served by the obvious and intuitive
nature of flat pedals.

Getting our of
the pedal when necessary is simple, particularly
when the retention force is set low.

It's not as simple as just stepping off. Otherwise we wouldn't all
know exactly what I mean when I refer to a "clipless moment".

Chalo

Chalo wrote:
Michael Press wrote:
Chalo wrote:
Using no foot restraints promotes good form and gives you instant
feedback for how much you're unloading the rising leg. Using bindings
lets you be in denial about fighting your legs one against the other,
or whether you actually lift your leg over or only believe you lift
your leg over. Just right for the triathlon/charity-ride tyro who
won't take the time to build good form anyway; not so good for the
daily rider.
The big advantage is not power coupling to the pedal.
Safety is the big advantage. My feet will not slip
off the pedal.

Your feet can definitely pop out of bindings-- and they are likely to
have some serious impulse behind them when they do.

I have only seen that happen in sprints or lugging up hill on the
lifting leg.

That's an easier
way to get hurt than just stepping or slipping off.

Slipping off or pulling a foot at full roar at 60 km/h or so, is rarely
pretty.

So is being
trapped in your binding when you need to get out.

Never had that happen with clip less pedals, but yes can happen with toe
straps.

I do not have to devote effort or
attention to keeping my feet on the pedals while
pedaling, or cornering, or keeping the rubber side
down in traffic.

And in this case what you don't have to learn, you probably won't.
Most of us here learned to push pedals in earnest before the
widespread use of foot restraints, so we take many sensible habits for
granted.

Try pedaling with one foot on a bike with a freewheel and no foot
restraint and see how far that gets you.

It is easy to practice good form with clip in pedals.

--
JS

Michael Press wrote:
In article ,
"(PeteCresswell)" wrote:

Per Duane Hebert:
In my first reply in this thread I asked why not use clipless pedals.
With clipless, it's partially not wanting to pay the dues (a few
face plants until I get the hang of it) and partially not wanting
to have to wear special shoes.

Set the retention force to minimum.


Or, use pedals that have a platform on one side and a clip on the other.

--
JS

In article
,
Chalo wrote:

Michael Press wrote:

Â*Chalo wrote:

Using no foot restraints promotes good form and gives you instant
feedback for how much you're unloading the rising leg. Â*Using bindings
lets you be in denial about fighting your legs one against the other,
or whether you actually lift your leg over or only believe you lift
your leg over. Â*Just right for the triathlon/charity-ride tyro who
won't take the time to build good form anyway; not so good for the
daily rider.

The big advantage is not power coupling to the pedal.
Safety is the big advantage. My feet will not slip
off the pedal.

Your feet can definitely pop out of bindings--

They slide off other pedals more easily.
Furthermore, my feet never slip off my pedals.

and they are likely to
have some serious impulse behind them when they do. That's an easier
way to get hurt than just stepping or slipping off. So is being
trapped in your binding when you need to get out.

Never trapped; and I said why.

I do not have to devote effort or
attention to keeping my feet on the pedals while
pedaling, or cornering, or keeping the rubber side
down in traffic.

And in this case what you don't have to learn, you probably won't.
Most of us here learned to push pedals in earnest before the
widespread use of foot restraints, so we take many sensible habits for
granted.

I am "most of us" and click in pedals are the best.


Click in pedal-cleat systems are
a huge win for the casual cyclist.

Only when "casual" is defined to mean so non-committed as to never
acquire decent pedaling form or habits.

What do you know about my habits? I am a casual cyclist.

And I argue that such an
incompetent noob cyclist is better served by the obvious and intuitive
nature of flat pedals.

I am speaking of cyclists, not learners.

Getting our of
the pedal when necessary is simple, particularly
when the retention force is set low.

It's not as simple as just stepping off.

Not enough---not nearly enough---not within parsecs
near enough to compensate for the safety of click in
pedal/shoe systems.

Otherwise we wouldn't all
know exactly what I mean when I refer to a "clipless moment".

I do not know what you mean.

--
Michael Press