Newbie question: cleats on recumbents

Hello all:

So I have my first recumbent, a BikeE E2.

My question regards the use of cleated shoes/pedals on recumbents. I
have not seen much discussion of this. Cleats would seem to be a good
idea as I wouldn't have to fight against gravity to keep my foot on
the pedal. However, I am concerned that cleats would be more
difficult to get in/out of on a bent than an upright. Oh, and just to
make me a double newbie, please note that I have not used cleats
before either, on any type of bike.

So:
Cleats on a bent: is it a good idea?
Can you get in/out of them quickly?
What brand of cleat would you recommend?

See you on RAGBRAI,
-Frank

Yes, clipless pedals are an excellent idea on a 'bent. If you fall, you
must keep your legs in front of you. DON'T TRY TO BRAKE THE FALL BY PUTTING
A FOOT DOWN! Clipless pedals will help you not to do this. In my 3500 mi.
I have had but one accident accept for a couple of miscues while starting or
stopping. Here are the details of that one accident:

I hit some black ice while climbing into a left turn--probably moving 8-9
mph. and my front tire slipped out. I put my left leg down in a reflex
action and broke my tibia and fibula in the malleolous region (ankle
region). It was 3 breaks in all; a compound fracture with a plate, and 9
screws. I spent 12 weeks on crutches with a lot of pain and inconvenience.
It takes at least a year to really recover from this kind of injury--like
running at full speed or making fast cuts like in tennis or a running back
might make. It's been over a year and mine is still improving. I have
walked 20 mi. in a Walk for Hunger, but have some mild discomfort in it.
There is some permanent loss of motion due to all the hardware, but it's not
worth having the hardware out. Bicycling is no problem now. Just got back
from TOSRV. All done on the second day by 1:15. I'm the guy who yelled at
every 'bent I saw, "Go 'bent!" or "''Bent power!" I was on a cherry red
Barcroft Dakota.

I urge you to see how this injury can happen. Try this. Put your left foot
on the ground while scooting the 'bent forward with the right. The left
foot will end up with the toe on the ground as the bike moves forward and
the foot stays put. At this point you can see that if you fall and your
ankle twists one way (toe in), you are fine. If it twists the other way
(toe out), you end up injured for certain. In my case I was staring at a
foot pointing at 6:00 instead of 12:00. Not a pretty sight!

I have a rather high bottom bracket SWB with rather low (not low rider)
seating position. IMHO the seating position is more important than the
bottom bracket height, because your foot is nowhere near the bottom bracket
when this kind of injury occurs. The only damage I did in this accident to
my hardware was a bent water bottle cage--not a scratch anywhere else. Even
my clothing was find except for where my tibia went through my neoprene
sock. I didn't much like those neoprene socks anyway!


"FLM" wrote in message
...
Hello all:

So I have my first recumbent, a BikeE E2.

My question regards the use of cleated shoes/pedals on recumbents. I
have not seen much discussion of this. Cleats would seem to be a good
idea as I wouldn't have to fight against gravity to keep my foot on
the pedal. However, I am concerned that cleats would be more
difficult to get in/out of on a bent than an upright. Oh, and just to
make me a double newbie, please note that I have not used cleats
before either, on any type of bike.

So:
Cleats on a bent: is it a good idea?
Can you get in/out of them quickly?
What brand of cleat would you recommend?

See you on RAGBRAI,
-Frank

Harry Spatz wrote:

Yes, clipless pedals are an excellent idea on a 'bent. If you fall, you
must keep your legs in front of you. DON'T TRY TO BRAKE THE FALL BY PUTTING
A FOOT DOWN! Clipless pedals will help you not to do this....

On a lowracer, the fall occurs so quickly that the rider will land on
his/her hip before he or she has time to take action.

--
Tom Sherman – Quad Cities

"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
Harry Spatz wrote:

Yes, clipless pedals are an excellent idea on a 'bent. If you fall, you
must keep your legs in front of you. DON'T TRY TO BRAKE THE FALL BY
PUTTING
A FOOT DOWN! Clipless pedals will help you not to do this....

On a lowracer, the fall occurs so quickly that the rider will land on
his/her hip before he or she has time to take action.

Every fall I have ever taken on any recumbent has been so fast that I never
had time to even think about putting a foot down. I went down with the bike
every time and took the impact on my shoulder and/or hip. I have only had a
few bad falls, but I will remember them for the rest of my life. All of my
falls on my recumbents have been due to the front wheel falling into a
longitudinal crack in the road and getting caught. I never had these kind of
accidents when I was riding an upright.

I have also discovered that the faster you go, the more likely it is that
you are going to have a really bad accident sooner or later. It is better to
slow down and live longer and healthier.

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota

--
Tom Sherman – Quad Cities

What happened to Illinois Side?

On Mon, 17 May 2004 18:43:33 -0500, Tom Sherman
wrote in message
:

On a lowracer, the fall occurs so quickly that the rider will land on
his/her hip before he or she has time to take action.

Every fall I've had on a wedgie has happened so fast I've not had time
to take action as well. Which, come to think of it, might explain why
I fell ;-)

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

Edward Dolan wrote:

"Melanie" wrote in message
om...

I have used spd cleats for years, very simple to use, easy to find,
and clips in easily and out to Shimano pedals. The advantage I see to
cleats is they allow for power from the return stroke of the crank,
and that makes it less tiring to move the bike forward. I feel much
safer clipped in so close to a moving wheel with my feet.


That is quite an illusion about the return stroke. In theory it makes
sense, but in practice it doesn't really work. Unless you consciously think
about it you will not pull back on the pedal on the upstroke. Basically, we
are all hammer heads.

Here is a discussion that touches on this subject. It will keep you
occupied for a few hours.

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl2384513101d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&c2coff=1&safe=off&as_drrb=b&as_mind=29&as_minm=3 &as_miny=1995&as_maxd=4&as_maxm=2&as_maxy=2004&sel m=7tgq10l88qtqr4230vfcvo9ct694j1uj0f%404ax.com.

--
Tom Sherman – Quad City Area

I have used spd cleats for years, very simple to use, easy to find,
and clips in easily and out to Shimano pedals. The advantage I see to
cleats is they allow for power from the return stroke of the crank,
and that makes it less tiring to move the bike forward. I feel much
safer clipped in so close to a moving wheel with my feet.

"Melanie" wrote in message
om...
I have used spd cleats for years, very simple to use, easy to find,
and clips in easily and out to Shimano pedals. The advantage I see to
cleats is they allow for power from the return stroke of the crank,
and that makes it less tiring to move the bike forward. I feel much
safer clipped in so close to a moving wheel with my feet.

That is quite an illusion about the return stroke. In theory it makes
sense, but in practice it doesn't really work. Unless you consciously think
about it you will not pull back on the pedal on the upstroke. Basically, we
are all hammer heads.

Also, cleats work just fine as long as you are upright and moving forward.
When you are going down and about to hit the pavement they are a
complication. But still, you are probably better off with your feet married
to the pedals than you would be otherwise. I sometimes think we recumbent
cyclists should wear hip pads so when we do go down we will minimize the
damage to our hips.

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota

"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
Edward Dolan wrote:

"Melanie" wrote in message
om...

I have used spd cleats for years, very simple to use, easy to find,
and clips in easily and out to Shimano pedals. The advantage I see to
cleats is they allow for power from the return stroke of the crank,
and that makes it less tiring to move the bike forward. I feel much
safer clipped in so close to a moving wheel with my feet.


That is quite an illusion about the return stroke. In theory it makes
sense, but in practice it doesn't really work. Unless you consciously
think
about it you will not pull back on the pedal on the upstroke. Basically,
we
are all hammer heads.

Here is a discussion that touches on this subject. It will keep you
occupied for a few hours.


http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl2384513101d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&c2coff=1&safe=off&as_drrb=b&as_mind=29&as_minm=3 &as_miny=1995&as_maxd=4&as_maxm=2&as_maxy=2004&sel m=7tgq10l88qtqr4230vfcvo9ct694j1uj0f%404ax.com.

--
Tom Sherman – Quad City Area

I am familiar with those arguments but it is not a natural thing to do to
pull up on the pedals. Only a racer will train to do this. The rest of us
will not do it unless we are consciously thinking of it or unless we have
been trained to do it. There is no doubt however that if you do it you will
be a much more efficient cyclist. But the fact remains that most of us will
never do it. As you no doubt are well aware by now, I am always with what
the main stream cyclists do, not what the very small minority of racer type
cyclists do.

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota

I am familiar with those arguments but it is not a natural thing to do to
pull up on the pedals. Only a racer will train to do this. The rest of us
will not do it unless we are consciously thinking of it or unless we have
been trained to do it.

I'm no racer but I do find that if I come unexpectedly unclipped my leg
goes 'twoing' towards my chin. I may have thought about pulling on the
pedals consciously at some point (I can't remember any more), but by now
it's just become 2nd nature.

My all-out max-speed on the flat is something like 24 without clips and 31
with, so they must be helping somehow. I think this counts even whilst I'm
cruising at my normal (and alas much slower) speed.

Kit