Stabilizing Kodak Zx1 image on bike mount

What can I do to stabilize the image on my Kodak Zx1 on its handlebar
mount? there is already a layer of rubber between the mount and the
handlebar.

The Kodak Zx1 doesn't have a built-in image stabilizer but I already
know that doesn't matter if you get the mount right. I know because I
took smoother video when I mounted the camera on a telescopic tripod
top extension with its bottom in a pocket of the handlebar bag and
loosely stayed by being held between the brake cable and the bag
straps but nowhere actually touching the handlebar.

Andre Jute
I'm not a know-all. I don't need to be. I know whom to ask.

"Andre Jute" wrote in message
...
What can I do to stabilize the image on my Kodak Zx1 on its handlebar
mount? there is already a layer of rubber between the mount and the
handlebar.

The Kodak Zx1 doesn't have a built-in image stabilizer but I already
know that doesn't matter if you get the mount right. I know because I
took smoother video when I mounted the camera on a telescopic tripod
top extension with its bottom in a pocket of the handlebar bag and
loosely stayed by being held between the brake cable and the bag
straps but nowhere actually touching the handlebar.

Andre Jute
I'm not a know-all. I don't need to be. I know whom to ask.


The old way to stablize a platform, is to hang a weight on a spring
below the platform.
The combination of the weight and the K of the spring will absorb any
energy.
Same concept is used on rail cars to soften the bounce from the rail
joints. There are weight boxes between the trucks on the rail cars.

Would that work in this case?, I have no idea.

Cheers

On May 8, 8:57*pm, "Martin Riddle" wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message

...

What can I do to stabilize the image on my Kodak Zx1 on its handlebar
mount? there is already a layer of rubber between the mount and the
handlebar.

The Kodak Zx1 doesn't have a built-in image stabilizer but I already
know that doesn't matter if you get the mount right. I know because I
took smoother video when I mounted the camera on a telescopic tripod
top extension with its bottom in a pocket of the handlebar bag and
loosely stayed by being held between the brake cable and the bag
straps but nowhere actually touching the handlebar.

Andre Jute
I'm not a know-all. I don't need to be. I know whom to ask.

The old way to stablize a platform, is to hang a weight on a spring
below the platform.
The combination of the weight and the *K of the spring will absorb any
energy.
Same concept is used on rail cars to soften the bounce from the rail
joints. There are weight boxes between the trucks on the rail cars.

Would that work in this case?, I have no idea.

Cheers

Worth trying, at least. Thank. AJ

Phil W Lee at dot dot wrote:
"Martin Riddle" considered Sat, 8 May 2010
15:57:41 -0400 the perfect time to write:



"Andre Jute" wrote in message
...
What can I do to stabilize the image on my Kodak Zx1 on its handlebar
mount? there is already a layer of rubber between the mount and the
handlebar.

The Kodak Zx1 doesn't have a built-in image stabilizer but I already
know that doesn't matter if you get the mount right. I know because I
took smoother video when I mounted the camera on a telescopic tripod
top extension with its bottom in a pocket of the handlebar bag and
loosely stayed by being held between the brake cable and the bag
straps but nowhere actually touching the handlebar.

Andre Jute
I'm not a know-all. I don't need to be. I know whom to ask.


The old way to stablize a platform, is to hang a weight on a spring
below the platform.
The combination of the weight and the K of the spring will absorb any
energy.
Same concept is used on rail cars to soften the bounce from the rail
joints. There are weight boxes between the trucks on the rail cars.

Would that work in this case?, I have no idea.

Short of making up a mount with low friction bearings, counterweights
and gyroscopes, you're never going to get it perfect.
So far my best results have been from using elastics to hold the
camera to the handlebar, rather than using the tripod thread in the
base. I loop the lanyard around the handlebar first as a safety
strap.

OK, got fed up with trying to describe it - a picture (or 8) is worth
a thousand words, so I've taken some snaps and put a little album on
photobucket
http://s9.photobucket.com/albums/a80...view=slideshow

Thanks, Phil. You're a prince for taking the time. Hell taking
pictures of black plastic implements but I have the idea, including
the useful information that you mount the camera behind the handlebar
to get clear access to the controls; I tried mounting it with strips
of velcro to the front of the bar but needed so many, the controls
were hidden... Cheers. -- Andre Jute

On Fri, 7 May 2010 11:06:17 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
wrote:

What can I do to stabilize the image on my Kodak Zx1 on its handlebar
mount? there is already a layer of rubber between the mount and the
handlebar.

1. Mount it on your helmet. Your body will act as the shock
absorber.

2. Steadicam:
http://www.instructables.com/id/Updated-Bicycle-mounted-steadicam/

3. The counter-balance idea will work, but it might be improved if
you add some form of shock absorber. Dunking the weight in a beer can
full of oil comes to mind.

4. When in doubt, measure. Get an accelerometer and data logger.
Measure the bicycle resonant frequencies. If you have front shocks,
these resonances can be tuned to some degree. The handlebars will
also have a resonant frequency. Then, add a mass damper to counter
the camera excursions and dampen the resonances. You can probably do
this by trial and error.

5. Buy a decent camera with image stabilization. Note that there are
3 basic types (with hybrids and mutations):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_stabilization
My now obsolete Canon S5-IS uses lens based image stabilization, which
works well enough for shooting while moving in a vehicle, but I've
never tried it on my bicycle. I don't know which type of
stabilization is best for bicycles.

6. Forget about making movies and make a series of images spaced
about 1-2 seconds apart using the highest speed possible on the
camera. This will not eliminate blurring but does reduce the effects.
I think my S5-IS has this feature, but I'm too lazy to look in the
manual or Google. Glue the images into a movie with morphing software
(to make it smooth):
http://www.morpheussoftware.net



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On May 9, 6:44*am, Phil W Lee phil(at)lee-family(dot)me(dot)uk
wrote:
Andre Jute considered Sat, 8 May 2010 18:09:20
-0700 (PDT) the perfect time to write:







Phil W Lee at dot dot wrote:
"Martin Riddle" considered Sat, 8 May 2010
15:57:41 -0400 the perfect time to write:

"Andre Jute" wrote in message
...
What can I do to stabilize the image on my Kodak Zx1 on its handlebar
mount? there is already a layer of rubber between the mount and the
handlebar.

The Kodak Zx1 doesn't have a built-in image stabilizer but I already
know that doesn't matter if you get the mount right. I know because I
took smoother video when I mounted the camera on a telescopic tripod
top extension with its bottom in a pocket of the handlebar bag and
loosely stayed by being held between the brake cable and the bag
straps but nowhere actually touching the handlebar.

Andre Jute
I'm not a know-all. I don't need to be. I know whom to ask.

The old way to stablize a platform, is to hang a weight on a spring
below the platform.
The combination of the weight and the *K of the spring will absorb any
energy.
Same concept is used on rail cars to soften the bounce from the rail
joints. There are weight boxes between the trucks on the rail cars.

Would that work in this case?, I have no idea.

Short of making up a mount with low friction bearings, counterweights
and gyroscopes, you're never going to get it perfect.
So far my best results have been from using elastics to hold the
camera to the handlebar, rather than using the tripod thread in the
base. *I loop the lanyard around the handlebar first as a safety
strap.

OK, got fed up with trying to describe it - a picture (or 8) is worth
a thousand words, so I've taken some snaps and put a little album on
photobucket
http://s9.photobucket.com/albums/a80.../Videomount/?a....

Thanks, Phil. You're a prince for taking the time. Hell taking
pictures of black plastic implements but I have the idea, including
the useful information that you mount the camera behind the handlebar
to get clear access to the controls; I tried mounting it with strips
of velcro to the front of the bar but needed so many, the controls
were hidden... Cheers. -- Andre Jute

Putting it that way also has the advantage that the battery cover
can't fall off (although that's impossible with the rubber case
fitted).
Note that the rubber camera condom that you get free when ordering
from Amazon helps with vibration absorption, and padded handlebar tape
works well too. I may try an additional strip of foam rubber between
the camera and handlebar to see if that improves things, although I
somewhat doubt it.
If you fit the rubber sleeve to the camera (recommended), you need to
make your own hole for the lanyard, and it's fiddly (punch a circular
hole, so it is less likely to split). *A slightly strange omission,
since holes are provided for all the other required access points
(memory card, cable port, mic, speaker, lens, tripod mount and
controls), why leave the lanyard out?

Perhaps they thought it would irritate users to have to thread the
lanyard through the port every time they change batteries. But I said
to my son that I couldn't understand the oversight: after all, when
are you more likely to require a lanyard for extra security than when
you already need the bump'n'thump case? I'll drill a 6mm hole in the
silicon case for the lanyard. -- Andre Jute

Hi,

Andre Jute wrote:
What can I do to stabilize the image on my Kodak Zx1 on its handlebar
mount? there is already a layer of rubber between the mount and the
handlebar.

Sorry to sound rude, but this ridiculous thing you call a "camera" is
rather easy to mount, just strap it on your helmet (=hat), set it to
"Tv" mode and manually set 1/500sec or faster shutter speed and high
ISO. You'll get some images easily, you might even get some kind of
movie, if your "camera" really uses the shutter speed you set in "Tv"
mode, instead of the typical 1/25s shutter speed seen in many low-end
cameras set to "video" mode...

But you could also buy one of those cheapo "Action-Cam" things, they
come with a bike mount ready and should produce similar video quality
(which is bad, because you need really fast shutter speeds while cycling
and the movie-cam-things usually have about 1/25sec shutter speeds which
is much too slow.

Forget Image Stabilizers for the application, as IS only works for slow
shutter speeds and you want FAST shutter speeds. Nothing better than a
"fast" lens! As a fast lens is usually heavy you'd get half of your
stabilization just from the weight of the lens, but that kind of lens is
so expensive, that you wouldn't use it for while-cycling (or do you have
~4000$ and up to waste? Send it to me, I'll put it to better use ;-)

If you're serious about photography, you'd stop and get off the bike to
take a picture, which leaves the question whether one could use the bike
itself as part of a tripod? A quick-mount bracket attached to the frame?

If you're serious about filming, get a steady-cam rig, but then again,
rather send me the money, I'll put it to better use ;-)

Actually I was considering a bike mount for a "real" camera, but I had
envisioned some fancy 'bent trike as the "bike platform" and I'd rather
stop for taking pictures (while comfortably sitting in the trike), so
the mount would have two "operating modes": (1) protect the camera while
riding and (2) stabilize the camera while stopping to eliminate the need
for a tripod. That would be much easier to realize, just an arm to swing
around and snap the camera into the quick-mount bracket attached to the
arm while stopped. Put the camera into the padded case for riding.

Just for academic purpose, if you really want to build a bike camera
mount, you need to consider all six mechanical degrees of freedom: you
need to keep the camera upright (but may allow leaning into corners),
which makes for a rather complicated linkage, especially since you need
to keep the camera on the same height (no matter whether you hit a pot
hole), need to allow for horizontal shake and for some shake in the
direction of travel (when you hit the pot hole, you'll experience
momentary speed changes which need to be countered). So in the end you
get a three-dimensional, ball-bearing-stuffed linkage with a massive
counterweight and some fancy (preferably hydraulic) shock absorbers.
This will allow for (only) decent image or video quality, if you mount a
high-end camera (again, send me the money instead of throwing it on the
street). Any less effort will put you right back on par with the stupid
mobile-phone-camera movies that nobody wants to see anyway...

Ask yourself, if you really really really need this stuff, and while
you're at it go riding your bike, which is much better than considering
to produce yet more "video" ;-)

Ciao ;-)

On 5/11/10 6:54 AM, Bernhard Agthe wrote:
Hi,

Andre Jute wrote:
What can I do to stabilize the image on my Kodak Zx1 on its handlebar
mount? there is already a layer of rubber between the mount and the
handlebar.

Sorry to sound rude, but this ridiculous thing you call a "camera"...


What an unbelievably nasty response! If you are "sorry to sound rude,"
why do so? If you don't intend to help, why respond?

Phil Lee's response was very useful and within the scope of the
question. Take a lesson.

BC

welder's gloves ?

Hey, Bernard, whatever it is you're smoking, send me some. I'm talking
about a humble little action cam to capture the license plates of
roadhogs. It is also cheap enough to leave on the bike outside the
supermarket. What do you expect from it, an Oscar-winning movie? --
Andre Jute

On May 11, 11:54 am, Bernhard Agthe wrote:
Hi,

Andre Jute wrote:
What can I do to stabilize the image on my Kodak Zx1 on its handlebar
mount? there is already a layer of rubber between the mount and the
handlebar.

Sorry to sound rude, but this ridiculous thing you call a "camera" is
rather easy to mount, just strap it on your helmet (=hat), set it to
"Tv" mode and manually set 1/500sec or faster shutter speed and high
ISO. You'll get some images easily, you might even get some kind of
movie, if your "camera" really uses the shutter speed you set in "Tv"
mode, instead of the typical 1/25s shutter speed seen in many low-end
cameras set to "video" mode...

But you could also buy one of those cheapo "Action-Cam" things, they
come with a bike mount ready and should produce similar video quality
(which is bad, because you need really fast shutter speeds while cycling
and the movie-cam-things usually have about 1/25sec shutter speeds which
is much too slow.

Forget Image Stabilizers for the application, as IS only works for slow
shutter speeds and you want FAST shutter speeds. Nothing better than a
"fast" lens! As a fast lens is usually heavy you'd get half of your
stabilization just from the weight of the lens, but that kind of lens is
so expensive, that you wouldn't use it for while-cycling (or do you have
~4000$ and up to waste? Send it to me, I'll put it to better use ;-)

If you're serious about photography, you'd stop and get off the bike to
take a picture, which leaves the question whether one could use the bike
itself as part of a tripod? A quick-mount bracket attached to the frame?

If you're serious about filming, get a steady-cam rig, but then again,
rather send me the money, I'll put it to better use ;-)

Actually I was considering a bike mount for a "real" camera, but I had
envisioned some fancy 'bent trike as the "bike platform" and I'd rather
stop for taking pictures (while comfortably sitting in the trike), so
the mount would have two "operating modes": (1) protect the camera while
riding and (2) stabilize the camera while stopping to eliminate the need
for a tripod. That would be much easier to realize, just an arm to swing
around and snap the camera into the quick-mount bracket attached to the
arm while stopped. Put the camera into the padded case for riding.

Just for academic purpose, if you really want to build a bike camera
mount, you need to consider all six mechanical degrees of freedom: you
need to keep the camera upright (but may allow leaning into corners),
which makes for a rather complicated linkage, especially since you need
to keep the camera on the same height (no matter whether you hit a pot
hole), need to allow for horizontal shake and for some shake in the
direction of travel (when you hit the pot hole, you'll experience
momentary speed changes which need to be countered). So in the end you
get a three-dimensional, ball-bearing-stuffed linkage with a massive
counterweight and some fancy (preferably hydraulic) shock absorbers.
This will allow for (only) decent image or video quality, if you mount a
high-end camera (again, send me the money instead of throwing it on the
street). Any less effort will put you right back on par with the stupid
mobile-phone-camera movies that nobody wants to see anyway...

Ask yourself, if you really really really need this stuff, and while
you're at it go riding your bike, which is much better than considering
to produce yet more "video" ;-)

Ciao ;-)