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#21
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Big Mig - honest, dishonest?
On May 25, 7:30 pm, "Sandy" wrote:
New rule, proposed long ago - you did nothing wrong? Cast the first stone. [notes to rule] - check your memory really really closely, first. Apply this straightforward rule and you get...a code of silence. Especially when you have a group of people who need to stick together to survive, even if they are competitors. It happens in all kinds of relationships and comes down to normal human behaviour. There is no easy solution to cheating in a system like professional sport. Some athletes are always going to cheat. Either you allow athletes to take whatever they want and sign a death disclaimer (this penalises the athletes who want to race clean) and concentrate on policing the rules on the road, or you have a 100 percent bulletproof system that detects all doping, all the time. The latter is practically impossible, while the former would annoy a few people and lead to some deaths. It's not particularly nice. In the good ol' days, the media had more respect for the omerta and helped keep a lid on affairs. But it's changed, with cycling being one of the first targets. I wonder if there's enough money and power to keep things quiet about some of the bigger sports like football and tennis? I remember reading about Telekom's doping program about 10 years ago. Riis has been pestered by journalists since then, because funnily enough, they knew about it too. Finding out this sort of information and getting it out there comes with the territory. It's now at the stage where reporting on an actual race should be an attention- grabbing headline, because it doesn't happen that often. Jeff |
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#22
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Big Mig - honest, dishonest?
benjo maso wrote:
"Bob Schwartz" wrote in message t... Dan Gregory wrote: Bob Schwartz wrote: Callistus Valerius wrote: Dope free also, makes him one of the few legitimate winners. Dumbass, Salbutamol, 1994. In which year Riis admits he was using Epo Gewiss made a ton of progress that year. Just like Telekom would in following years. In 1994 I don't believe EPO was a banned substance yet. I'm not sure when that came, 1996? No, 1990 Benjo Are you sure? I'm pretty sure one of the reasons Planckaert was willing to admit to winning the 1990 Paris-Roubaix while on EPO was that at the time it was OK. Bob Schwartz |
#23
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Big Mig - honest, dishonest?
"Bob Schwartz" wrote in message t... benjo maso wrote: "Bob Schwartz" wrote in message t... Dan Gregory wrote: Bob Schwartz wrote: Callistus Valerius wrote: Dope free also, makes him one of the few legitimate winners. Dumbass, Salbutamol, 1994. In which year Riis admits he was using Epo Gewiss made a ton of progress that year. Just like Telekom would in following years. In 1994 I don't believe EPO was a banned substance yet. I'm not sure when that came, 1996? No, 1990 Benjo Are you sure? I'm pretty sure one of the reasons Planckaert was willing to admit to winning the 1990 Paris-Roubaix while on EPO was that at the time it was OK. Yes, I'm sure. And Eddy Planckaert said that he used Epo only in the last year of his career, i.e. 1991. Benjo |
#24
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Big Mig - honest, dishonest?
In article ,
"Sandy" wrote: Dans le message de news:VsF5i.18$eO5.14@trndny08, B. Lafferty a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré : "RonSonic" wrote in message ... On 25 May 2007 09:36:57 -0700, " wrote: I too will always think of him as being a dignified patron of the peleton and-- rightyl or wrongly-- as a clean rider. Perhaps this is naive but it is how I want to remember him. Yes, this is naive! Big Mig was a doper; he was once described as 'EPO perfected'. I sure as hell hope no one still believes Pantani was clean! If they take Riis' title, they should take Pantani's as well. Should Ullrich admit he doped too that would leave...HOLY **** BOBBY JULICH AS THE VIRTUAL TdF champion! Considering the scandal that year and his meteoric crash, I'd Julich was clean. Oh my god my head's going to explode........... This is why the entire concept of rewriting results is so stupid. If they take out Riis, who do they replace him with? Someone who we somehow know to be clean? I wonder how you would feel if you raced clean and lost Olympic Gold or the Tour to a doper. I'd want justice and the medal. New rule, proposed long ago - you did nothing wrong? Cast the first stone. [notes to rule] - check your memory really really closely, first. Thanks for the chance to talk about misquotations. No, you have not misquoted. Following is a quote that is almost always misquoted. Matthew 7:2 For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again. -- Michael Press |
#25
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Big Mig - honest, dishonest?
On May 25, 11:30 am, "Sandy" wrote:
[notes to rule] - check your memory really really closely, first. http://www.fmsfonline.org/ I remember that I won the tour several times -- not even virtually. Really! |
#26
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Big Mig - honest, dishonest?
Who can we say was really clean? Eki? Probably. no way. I can't imagine anyone coming thru any eastern-bloc sports program being 100% clean. Julich? likely, too. My guess would be he's not clean either. |
#27
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Big Mig - honest, dishonest?
On May 25, 12:17 pm, Donald Munro wrote:
Unfortunately this dumb circle jerk is probably going to result in more power to dicks like Pound. It never ceases to amaze me the degree to which people think that granting power to someone, and then closing one's eyes and hoping for the best could possibly solve social problems. But yet it is so prevalant in so many circumstances. "*They* will figure it out and everything will be a-ok. Don't worry, be happy." -- bf, 1759 |
#28
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Big Mig - honest, dishonest?
On May 25, 11:06 am, "
wrote: On May 25, 1:58 pm, "B. Lafferty" wrote: "RonSonic" wrote in message .. . On 25 May 2007 09:36:57 -0700, " wrote: I too will always think of him as being a dignified patron of the peleton and-- rightyl or wrongly-- as a clean rider. Perhaps this is naive but it is how I want to remember him. Yes, this is naive! Big Mig was a doper; he was once described as 'EPO perfected'. I sure as hell hope no one still believes Pantani was clean! If they take Riis' title, they should take Pantani's as well. Should Ullrich admit he doped too that would leave...HOLY **** BOBBY JULICH AS THE VIRTUAL TdF champion! Considering the scandal that year and his meteoric crash, I'd Julich was clean. Oh my god my head's going to explode........... This is why the entire concept of rewriting results is so stupid. If they take out Riis, who do they replace him with? Someone who we somehow know to be clean? I wonder how you would feel if you raced clean and lost Olympic Gold or the Tour to a doper. I'd want justice and the medal. Who can we say was really clean? Eki? Probably. Julich? likely, too. Dumbass - That is such a bunch of wishful BS. Julich's team that year, Cofidis, was one of the few EPO teams to avoid getting their stash taken away when Voet got busted. They finished 3 riders in the top 7. Julich (3rd), Cristophe Rinero (4th), Roland Meir (7th). It was a career year for all three of them. After that the French teams were subject to the extreme anti-doping laws in that nation and those guys all fell off the face of the earth resultswise. Julich=dirty (IMHO) thanks, K. Gringioni. |
#29
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Big Mig - honest, dishonest?
In article . com,
" wrote: On May 25, 1:58 pm, "B. Lafferty" wrote: "RonSonic" wrote in message ... On 25 May 2007 09:36:57 -0700, " wrote: I too will always think of him as being a dignified patron of the peleton and-- rightyl or wrongly-- as a clean rider. Perhaps this is naive but it is how I want to remember him. Yes, this is naive! Big Mig was a doper; he was once described as 'EPO perfected'. I sure as hell hope no one still believes Pantani was clean! If they take Riis' title, they should take Pantani's as well. Should Ullrich admit he doped too that would leave...HOLY **** BOBBY JULICH AS THE VIRTUAL TdF champion! Considering the scandal that year and his meteoric crash, I'd Julich was clean. Oh my god my head's going to explode........... This is why the entire concept of rewriting results is so stupid. If they take out Riis, who do they replace him with? Someone who we somehow know to be clean? I wonder how you would feel if you raced clean and lost Olympic Gold or the Tour to a doper. I'd want justice and the medal. Who can we say was really clean? Eki? Probably. Julich? likely, too. Hamilton? I think only he and his only mentor still believe. I think Tugboat believed him to the day he died. -- Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/ "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos |
#30
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Big Mig - honest, dishonest?
In article VsF5i.18$eO5.14@trndny08,
"B. Lafferty" wrote: "RonSonic" wrote in message ... On 25 May 2007 09:36:57 -0700, " wrote: I too will always think of him as being a dignified patron of the peleton and-- rightyl or wrongly-- as a clean rider. Perhaps this is naive but it is how I want to remember him. Yes, this is naive! Big Mig was a doper; he was once described as 'EPO perfected'. I sure as hell hope no one still believes Pantani was clean! If they take Riis' title, they should take Pantani's as well. Should Ullrich admit he doped too that would leave...HOLY **** BOBBY JULICH AS THE VIRTUAL TdF champion! Considering the scandal that year and his meteoric crash, I'd Julich was clean. Oh my god my head's going to explode........... This is why the entire concept of rewriting results is so stupid. If they take out Riis, who do they replace him with? Someone who we somehow know to be clean? I wonder how you would feel if you raced clean and lost Olympic Gold or the Tour to a doper. I'd want justice and the medal. And it pains me to admit it, but Brian's not only right, he's probably been right about doping prevalence more often than most people in this group. About the worst thing you can say about WADA-world is that it's a McCarthyite witch hunt. Overzealous, willing to transgress the principles it claims to get to its targets. And like McCarthy, the witches it's hunting are mostly real. I can't remember who keeps quoting "it's possible to frame a guilty man," but all I think of a lot of the time is a quote by Kissinger: can't they both lose? My saving grace with the whole "justice and the medal" approach is that, however proper it would be, moving everyone up a rung is probably better-than-even odds of just promoting a different doper in a large number of these cases. -- Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/ "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos |
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