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Ontario Helmet Law being pushed through



 
 
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  #21  
Old November 5th 04, 11:23 PM
Peter Storey
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Chris B. quoted someone thusly
in message . ..

"That includes N.D.P. MPP Michael Prue, who lost his brother to a bike
accident in 1998. ?There isn't a day goes by that I don't see someone
on the streets of Toronto, an adult, with no helmet on their head, and
I want to get out of my car or off the sidewalk and I want to grab
them and I want to shake them,? he reflects. ?I want to tell them that
this was an absolutely wrong thing, a bad thing to happen."


Oh dear! Shaking them? MPP Prue really should read up on rotational
injuries that are not prevented --- and may be exacerbated -- by
wearing a helmet.

Peter Storey
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  #23  
Old November 6th 04, 01:01 AM
Mitch Haley
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Benjamin Lewis wrote:

To go even further, the mere existence of a law purported to be for
"safety" purposes, even if it is *guaranteed* to be unenforced, can
potentially be a deterrent, since it spreads the idea, sometimes
unconsciously, that the activity is dangerous.


Not to mention spreading the silly idea that the government is your parent.
  #24  
Old November 6th 04, 03:09 AM
Bill Z.
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Dragan Cvetkovic writes:

Chris Phillipo writes:

In article , bikerider@-no-
spam-thanks-rogers.com says...

I wonder why. Are you aware that mandatory helmet laws implemented in
Alberta, Nova Scotia, New Zealand and parts of Australia have not only
not shown benefits but have actually had negative effects (decreased
numbers of cyclists in all cases and sometimes an increase in the rate
of head injury after the law is enacted)?


Ho hum, that would be a neat trick considering the helmet laws are not
even enforced outside of Halifax in Nova Scotia. Which makes me think
the rest of these "statitics" are in quesiton.


Are you saying that people should obey the law only if it is actually and
actively enforced?



He's saying what I have said for years on this topic: that laws that
are not obeyed or enforced have zero impact on human behavior. People
are not going to stop cycling because of a helmet law that is neither
obeyed nor enforced.

Bill

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB
  #25  
Old November 6th 04, 03:25 AM
Frank Krygowski
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Chris B. wrote:



Frank, why did you remove the cross post? It is very much on topic
for ont.bicycle.


Because my system won't let me post there. When I try, the entire post
hangs. I agree it's very much on topic there. Feel free to copy.


--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

  #26  
Old November 6th 04, 03:28 AM
Frank Krygowski
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Chris Phillipo wrote:



That had nothing to do with the point of my post but I'm sure that this
bill, like almost all others, has no provision in it for extra law
enforment spending.


Which means, of course, that any time the cops give to enforcing it is
time taken away from real productive activity.


--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

  #27  
Old November 6th 04, 03:33 AM
Frank Krygowski
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Ken [NY) wrote:


To the fellow who was thinking about fleeing to Canada from
the horrors of Bush's low tax rates, you might want to think about
this proposed law.


But then, there's the opportunity to get free of Neanderthal right
wingers and their simplistic "thinking." The choice isn't easy!

Ah well. We're off topic, aren't we?


--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

  #28  
Old November 6th 04, 05:09 AM
Peter Keller
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On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 15:08:50 +0000, Chris Phillipo wrote:

In article , bikerider@-no-
spam-thanks-rogers.com says...

I wonder why. Are you aware that mandatory helmet laws implemented in
Alberta, Nova Scotia, New Zealand and parts of Australia have not only
not shown benefits but have actually had negative effects (decreased
numbers of cyclists in all cases and sometimes an increase in the rate
of head injury after the law is enacted)?


Ho hum, that would be a neat trick considering the helmet laws are not
even enforced outside of Halifax in Nova Scotia. Which makes me think
the rest of these "statitics" are in quesiton.



In New Zealand the law is savagely and ferociously enforced.
Between 1994 (law begin) and now:
Reduction in numbers of bicyclists 34%
Reduction in numbers of children bicycling 80%
Reduction in numbers of women bicycling 90%
Reduction in head injuries, deaths 19%

Peter


--
If you are careful enough in life, nothing bad -- or
good -- will ever happen to you.

  #29  
Old November 6th 04, 05:13 AM
RogerDodger
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Bob Burns Wrote:

...
I always wear a helmet. I destroyed one a month ago in a crash- and
walked
away. it will not prevent all injuries, but it improves your odds of
walking away. That said, not sure I want a law mandating helmets.
Here in
PA they just repealed the motorcycle helmet law.

--
Bob Burns
Mill Hall PA


So Bob, it improves your odds of walking away huh? Well I have a
question for you (actually it more of a challenge than a question - an
epistemological challenge).
How would you know that? That's the crux question, Bob.

See you don't know that wearing a helmet improves you odds of walking
away. Indeed you're not alone in believing it, but just cause a lot of
people all believe something doesn't make it true. The evidence
suggests that the belief that a helmet will improve your odds of
walking away is an illusion, an enticing illusion that a lot of people
willingly buy into and, even worse tend to become advocates for and
expouse fervently. There's the problem - people erroneously believe
that helmets make a substantial and worthwile difference when they in
fact don't and then the emphasis that is given to wearing helmets takes
priority and the place of other *real* safety initiatives and
improvements that could be made for us cyclists. The bottom line is
that those cyclists among us who bang on about the "vital need" for
helmets are doing Cycling a grave disservice. Something like sucking a
dummy, but worse. It's hard enough trying to get respect, care and
consideration from motorists as it is without some of our number
bleating on about our need to wear poly-bonnets which which aren't
worth a pinch of s_ _ t.

Roger


--
RogerDodger

  #30  
Old November 6th 04, 05:48 AM
Chris B.
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On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 21:25:14 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

Chris B. wrote:



Frank, why did you remove the cross post? It is very much on topic
for ont.bicycle.


Because my system won't let me post there. When I try, the entire post
hangs. I agree it's very much on topic there. Feel free to copy.


I hadn't even considered that, sorry.

I must say, I'm not usually so provincial.
--

"Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its
victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under
robber-barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber-
baron's cruelty may at some point be satiated; but those who
torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they
do so with the approval of their own conscience."

- C.S. Lewis
 




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