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combination spanner: drop forged steel vs. chrome vanadium
Because the combination spanner seems to be an
integral part of the game I spent some time examining my tools. I have two almost complete sets despite never having bought a set. If we focus on the 10 mm one, both versions have a width of 5 mm. One is 15 mm in length, the other 12.3 mm. And the space that holds the nut is equally 10 mm on both! The difference in length makes for a somewhat different angle. In a shop size doesn't really matter but it might be a factor for small toolboxes to bring into the wild (or into thin air). On the flip side, the short one should carry somewhat less power as the lever is shorter! The short one is made in Taiwan, the long in China. So I suppose the short one is older since nowadays everything seems to be built in mainland China. Now is where it gets interesting: the short one is made of drop forged steel, and the long one: chrome vanadium! -- underground experts united .... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 Emacs Gnus Blogomatic ......... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/blogomatic - so far: 58 Blogomatic articles - |
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#2
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combination spanner: drop forged steel vs. chrome vanadium
On Sat, 23 Jul 2016 07:35:11 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote: Because the combination spanner seems to be an integral part of the game I spent some time examining my tools. I have two almost complete sets despite never having bought a set. I've got a friend who has a small business repairing outboard motors at a large marina in Phuket, Thailand. And when you are always out and about in the boat business you seem to collect things. He is also a great fan of tool boards and has about half of one wall in his shop covered by a gigantic "tool Board". The other day I asked him about the 5 sets of combination wrenches - 2 in inch and 3 in metric sizes. Jokingly I asked him if one set went with Mercury engines and one with Honda's and maybe one for old Sea Gull motors. He says, "Nah, I just grab whatever is the closest :-) If we focus on the 10 mm one, both versions have a width of 5 mm. One is 15 mm in length, the other 12.3 mm. And the space that holds the nut is equally 10 mm on both! The difference in length makes for a somewhat different angle. In a shop size doesn't really matter but it might be a factor for small toolboxes to bring into the wild (or into thin air). On the flip side, the short one should carry somewhat less power as the lever is shorter! The short one is made in Taiwan, the long in China. So I suppose the short one is older since nowadays everything seems to be built in mainland China. Now is where it gets interesting: the short one is made of drop forged steel, and the long one: chrome vanadium! I've got a couple of bikes with hex nuts or bolts on the fender stays and carry a single wrench on these bikes. I usually cut an existing wrench down and drill holes in the handle to make it a bit lighter and I notice that the better China Main Land made wrenches are made of some pretty tough stuff. At least in the "better" grades. -- cheers, John B. |
#3
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combination spanner: drop forged steel vs. chrome vanadium
John B. wrote:
I've got a friend who has a small business repairing outboard motors at a large marina in Phuket, Thailand. And when you are always out and about in the boat business you seem to collect things. It is the same for me even tho I don't do boats! When you are at it with some activity you notice suddenly all the new things. When I did Karate I was in the dojo hundreds of times without thinking about the screws in the locker room, which had Torx heads. But after doing bikes like two weeks that was the first thing I saw when I entered the room! This goes for tools and building material (wood) as well. Some times it is impossible to resist having long fingers because you strongly suspect otherwise it'll just go to waste. It is also educational as you learn how to clean and repair stuff Speaking of boats, I'm thinking of building a raft with five 200 liter barrels in the middle, and then two cantilevers of five 50 liter barrels each. But I think ropes will do instead of mechanics - perhaps some 5 mm cord... I've got a couple of bikes with hex nuts or bolts on the fender stays and carry a single wrench on these bikes. I usually cut an existing wrench down and drill holes in the handle to make it a bit lighter and I notice that the better China Main Land made wrenches are made of some pretty tough stuff. At least in the "better" grades. Yeah, once upon a time everything was made in England, then then rest of Europe, USA, then Japan, Taiwan, now PR China, tomorrow India perhaps... The outsourcing was perhaps due to cheeper labor at some point but as for quality Chinese stuff hasn't let me down so far. On the other hand my father has a Chinese wife and some of the stuff I get from her is broke in several places even before I start using it! But the stuff from China I buy in Sweden hasn't failed so far. This isn't to say the old Europe stuff wasn't awesome, proof of which is some of the 60s bikes and tools are still around working perfectly - and some stuff even older, for example I repaired a mower the other day - or actually it wasn't broke, it was just filled with age-old grass -- underground experts united .... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 Emacs Gnus Blogomatic ......... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/blogomatic - so far: 58 Blogomatic articles - |
#4
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combination spanner: drop forged steel vs. chrome vanadium
On Sun, 24 Jul 2016 01:19:50 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote: John B. wrote: I've got a friend who has a small business repairing outboard motors at a large marina in Phuket, Thailand. And when you are always out and about in the boat business you seem to collect things. It is the same for me even tho I don't do boats! When you are at it with some activity you notice suddenly all the new things. When I did Karate I was in the dojo hundreds of times without thinking about the screws in the locker room, which had Torx heads. But after doing bikes like two weeks that was the first thing I saw when I entered the room! This goes for tools and building material (wood) as well. Some times it is impossible to resist having long fingers because you strongly suspect otherwise it'll just go to waste. It is also educational as you learn how to clean and repair stuff Speaking of boats, I'm thinking of building a raft with five 200 liter barrels in the middle, and then two cantilevers of five 50 liter barrels each. But I think ropes will do instead of mechanics - perhaps some 5 mm cord... That isn't a boat, that is a barge :-) If you mean five barrels in a row then that is about 14 feet, or a little over 4 metre's. I would suggest a catamaran - two lengths of 5 containers in parallel. I've build a few boats as well as a number of "floats" or whatever you call them supported by barrels and my comments a It will be heavier than a simple plywood boat but a bit easier to build. Although it will likely be quite a lot cheaper. It will not necessarily be more seaworthy. It will be very slow and without a crew probably impossible to row or paddle. If you build it as usually done, a grid of timber hold the containers in place and their normal buoyancy keeps them in place up against the underside of the deck. Usually they are tied in place with rope or perhaps some sort of plastic strapping, which is not a major structural part of the structure. Just a retainer, so to speak. Usually one of more containers will have a leak and occasionally a container may get heavy enough to sink, thus the retaining ropes. Unless the framework and deck are very stiff, thus heavy, it will not be a flat, solid, deck the deck will flex, to some extent, as a wave passes under the hull(s). Comments: It will likely be more seaworthy than the Vasa(Wasa?). It certainly does not fit in with historical vessels in the region, and if you are going Viking it is going to take two or three months to reach England, or France :-) II've got a couple of bikes with hex nuts or bolts on the fender stays and carry a single wrench on these bikes. I usually cut an existing wrench down and drill holes in the handle to make it a bit lighter and I notice that the better China Main Land made wrenches are made of some pretty tough stuff. At least in the "better" grades. Yeah, once upon a time everything was made in England, then then rest of Europe, USA, then Japan, Taiwan, now PR China, tomorrow India perhaps... The outsourcing was perhaps due to cheeper labor at some point but as for quality Chinese stuff hasn't let me down so far. From what I know it isn't just cheaper labor, although that gets all the news coverage. My experience is that setting up the company, taxes, government over sight, health and safety, medical and life insurance coverage for the workers, materials (in many instances) are all cheaper. Years ago my company looked at setting up a subsidiary company in Burma (Myanmar) I met with a Burmese lawyer (educated, and a member of the bar, in England) and essentially to open a legal company I needed to have a Burmese member of the Board and bring in US$ 10,000 and lodge it in a Burmese bank, which became the Capitalization of the company. Take a look into opening a company in Sweden, or the U.S. for that matter. As an aside, we decided not to establish a company as essentially the kyat was valueless although there was an illegal rate of exchange that the local bank would change money at, so we would have been forced into using black market money. At the time there was almost no basic support industry - to get office furniture you hired a carpenter and he came to your office and made it. And it was becoming more and more evident of just how awful the government really was. We decided that it just wasn't worth the effort. On the other hand my father has a Chinese wife and some of the stuff I get from her is broke in several places even before I start using it! But the stuff from China I buy in Sweden hasn't failed so far. This isn't to say the old Europe stuff wasn't awesome, proof of which is some of the 60s bikes and tools are still around working perfectly - and some stuff even older, for example I repaired a mower the other day - or actually it wasn't broke, it was just filled with age-old grass Chinese stuff, in China, is just like any other country. There is the good stuff and the bad stuff. A Flying Pidgin bicycle ( the company had made 500 million units as of 2007) you could pass it on to your descendents. Originally a single speed, some with a double top tube for strength, a fully enclosed chain guard and made in a ladies model also. But I believe that they have now been modernized although the original models are still alive both in China and abroad, I've frequently seen them in Singapore. Allbaba has the old original, two top tube version for $45 - $65 each in lots of 200. -- cheers, John B. |
#5
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combination spanner: drop forged steel vs. chrome vanadium
John B. wrote:
If you mean five barrels in a row then that is about 14 feet, or a little over 4 metre's. I would suggest a catamaran - two lengths of 5 containers in parallel. OK, any suggestions what wood to use? The raft part will be 3.5 meters square and then some additional is required for a centerboard, mast, possibly skeg, and so on. Comments: It will likely be more seaworthy than the Vasa(Wasa?). It certainly does not fit in with historical vessels in the region, and if you are going Viking it is going to take two or three months to reach England, or France :-) So you know about all that. Well, the Vikings (some 800-1100) had perfected the craft for generations so obviously there is no comparison. And they didn't use rafts, at least not for their journeys to England and France. Vasa (or Wasa) was a royal warship (out of oak) which sank in 1628, immediatly upon starting the maiden voyage. No, I got the print from this book so I suppose it is Polynesian if any: @book{det-stora-vågspelet, author = {Alain Brun and Bengt Danielsson}, ISBN = 9177988515, publisher = {Carlsson}, title = {Det stora vågspelet: Tahiti Nui-expeditionen}, year = {1994 (originally 1959)} } to get office furniture you hired a carpenter and he came to your office and made it. I wish it was like that here because that would mean a lot of work -- underground experts united .... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 Emacs Gnus Blogomatic ......... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/blogomatic - so far: 58 Blogomatic articles - |
#6
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combination spanner: drop forged steel vs. chrome vanadium
On 7/24/2016 3:38 AM, John B. wrote:
Comments: It will likely be more seaworthy than the Vasa(Wasa?). We saw the Vasa in its museum a few years ago. It's still one of the most amazing museums we've ever visited. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasa_(ship) -- - Frank Krygowski |
#7
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combination spanner: drop forged steel vs. chrome vanadium
maybe as a pedal wrench a CV ...otherwise bike torques are lower than CV specs.
https://goo.gl/UyZRlO outstanding ! problem is finding one when needed. gotta keepum on the holder. uneeda 10MM and 6MM with a ball joint hex key set and a propane torch. |
#8
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combination spanner: drop forged steel vs. chrome vanadium
Today I continued my examination of this tool.
The closed end seems to always have 12 slots - perhaps the 6 of the hex nut, times 2, so you can position it more freely? What about times 3, even more freely? Likely the tool would just rotate around the nut... Why not 6 slots? I suspect this would only limit the flexibility severely (cut it in half) while the grip stability wouldn't increase all that much (?) The open end has one strong part and one which is smaller. If you rotate the thing, you can alway pull the right way! But this can be difficult in the dark or below ~9°C when every second you work with a unclothed tool will cool down your hand. Perhaps one should not overemphasize flipping it the right way. I suspect this is more important for adjustable spanners which might brake if flipped the wrong way. Incidentally, adjustable spanners are a virtual nightmare to use in cold and darkness! Also, the open end is tilted somewhat from the handle. No idea why that is - ergonomics, transfer of power ... ? -- underground experts united .... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 Emacs Gnus Blogomatic ......... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/blogomatic - so far: 58 Blogomatic articles - |
#9
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combination spanner: drop forged steel vs. chrome vanadium
On 7/24/2016 3:44 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Today I continued my examination of this tool. The closed end seems to always have 12 slots - perhaps the 6 of the hex nut, times 2, so you can position it more freely? Yes, to position more freely. This is not so much an issue with bikes (though sometimes there also), but when working in enclosed spaces, e.g. automobile engines, it may be possible only to turn a nut 30-40 degrees at a time without the free end of the wrench being blocked by another part of the engine. Those 12 "points" as they are called enable the user to work in more constrained situations. What about times 3, even more freely? Likely the tool would just rotate around the nut... Why not 6 slots? So-called socket wrenches come in "6-point" and "12-point" varieties. 12-point sockets are easier to engage, and good for most general uses, especially when working by feel or in the dark as you mention. 6-point is stronger, for badly seized / stuck bolts, or for really tiny sizes, where the 12-point may not have enough engagement with the bolt. References: https://www.amazon.com/Craftsman-Pie...int+socket+set and https://www.amazon.com/Craftsman-Pie...int+socket+set I suspect this would only limit the flexibility severely (cut it in half) while the grip stability wouldn't increase all that much (?) The open end has one strong part and one which is smaller. If you rotate the thing, you can alway pull the right way! But this can be difficult in the dark or below ~9°C when every second you work with a unclothed tool will cool down your hand. Yes, I used to use very thin gloves when using wrenches in the cold. Perhaps one should not overemphasize flipping it the right way. I suspect this is more important for adjustable spanners which might brake if flipped the wrong way. Incidentally, adjustable spanners are a virtual nightmare to use in cold and darkness! Also, the open end is tilted somewhat from the handle. No idea why that is - ergonomics, transfer of power ... ? Same reason as the 12-point - for clearance. If one has multiple bolt or nut heads arranged closely in the same plane, a non-angled wrench could not turn (as) much. Obligatory bike stuff: I did 207k on my three-year old carbon fiber bike yesterday. Surely I am tempting fate, it will surely disintegrate any day now, but it's so nice to ride! Or perhaps Trek really /does/ engineer in a safety margin, hard as that would be to believe. Mark J. |
#10
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combination spanner: drop forged steel vs. chrome vanadium
Mark J. wrote:
Today I continued my examination of this tool. The closed end seems to always have 12 slots - perhaps the 6 of the hex nut, times 2, so you can position it more freely? Yes, to position more freely. This is not so much an issue with bikes (though sometimes there also), but when working in enclosed spaces, e.g. automobile engines, it may be possible only to turn a nut 30-40 degrees at a time without the free end of the wrench being blocked by another part of the engine. Those 12 "points" as they are called enable the user to work in more constrained situations. Right, then you want the "ratchet" or detent mechanism so you don't need to get away and reset the tool between pulls... So-called socket wrenches come in "6-point" and "12-point" varieties. You mean the sockets do? Google shows me what I thought was a rachet? The sockets I've seen are 6 point and it makes sense because the space required is the same no matter how you rotate the socket, and as for the handle it can be rotated freely, of course. Why 12 point? So it'll be easier to get it there in the first place? -- underground experts united .... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 Emacs Gnus Blogomatic ......... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/blogomatic - so far: 58 Blogomatic articles - |
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