3 feet in 50 years?!?

wrote in message ...
On Sunday, December 25, 2016 at 10:38:52 AM UTC-8, Graham wrote:
"Phil Lee" wrote in message ...

[snip]

I doubt if anyone with an IQ above room temperature did.

[imported from another reply]

If that's true please explain Brexit, the upcoming NLexit etc.

In a word, ignorance.

If that is what you truely think then I think you ought to consider your own IQ.

Mine is well above room temperature and possibly higher than yours as I suspect is that of many who voted Brexit. It is your own elitest liberal arrogance that spawned Brexit and Trump. Something I would have hoped to avoid and possibly could have had it not been for guys like you. If you cannot see why then your IQ is not as high as you think!!!!

I've enough Irish in me that Phil would only say that once around me. When he returned from hospital he would be a great deal more careful with his words.

Whilst I appreciate your sentiments I would prefer to take these guys on the intelectual rather than the physical plain. That said your response supports my point that people like Phil are, perhaps unwittingly, the cause of what has happened in 2016 due to their arrogance. They seem blind to the sensibilities of so many of their fellow country-men.

Graham.

---
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On Sun, 25 Dec 2016 10:29:03 -0800 (PST), wrote:

OK Phil, since you believe the world around you to be stupid
beyond belief and yourself to be very smart why don't you tell
us your local tides and the size of the installation that
would deliver the 25 mw that the largest windmills presently do.

I presume you mean 25MW megawatt, not milliwatt.
The largest single wind turbine so far is the Vestas V164 at 8MW.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vestas_V164
http://nozebra.ipapercms.dk/Vestas/Communication/Productbrochure/V16480MW/V16480MW/
I don't know of any that are planned at 25MW.

I would greatly appreciate it if you would provide your sources when
you throw numbers around.

Incidentally, the largest tidal plant is the Sihwa Lake Tidal Power
Station at 254MW.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sihwa_Lake_Tidal_Power_Station
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tidal_power_stations
The largest in UK seems to be 1.2MW:
http://www.seageneration.co.uk/


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sunday, December 25, 2016 at 7:17:13 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/25/2016 5:48 AM, wrote:
On Saturday, December 24, 2016 at 3:33:46 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/23/2016 8:23 PM, Phil Lee wrote:
Frank Krygowski considered Thu, 22 Dec 2016
16:15:16 -0500 the perfect time to write:

On 12/22/2016 3:39 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
Frank Krygowski writes:

On 12/22/2016 10:54 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
jbeattie writes:

On Wednesday, December 21, 2016 at 10:29:46 AM UTC-8, Radey Shouman wrote:

Well, a genuinely proportional representation system would be a start..
For all it's faults, the European Parliament (elected using PR) is far
more responsive to well argued concerns of the electorate than most
others I know of - because they know that every vote counts.


Hilarious!
If that's true please explain Brexit, the upcoming NLexit etc.

NLexit? Did I miss something?


Maybe, maybe not.
Polls and experts have not been helpful this year.


http://www.nytimes.com/live/eu-refer...geert-wilders/

http://www.wnd.com/2016/10/geert-wil...-exit-from-eu/

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...n-independence

But I'm a distant observer. What say you?


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Andrew as a small trading country we can't 'afford' leaving the EU. I can't deny that the anti EU sentiments are increasing and Mr Wilders party who is feeding them gets more popular with people who are dissapointed and blaming the EU and muslims for everything. We will see coming elections and I hope people come to the senses. I think a lot of the the people in the UK were not aware of the full consequences when they voted for the Brexit and their vote was based on sentiments. I hope we have the time here to learn from that.

On Sunday, December 25, 2016 at 11:55:16 AM UTC-8, Graham wrote:
wrote in message ...
On Sunday, December 25, 2016 at 10:38:52 AM UTC-8, Graham wrote:
"Phil Lee" wrote in message ...

[snip]

I doubt if anyone with an IQ above room temperature did.

[imported from another reply]

If that's true please explain Brexit, the upcoming NLexit etc.

In a word, ignorance.

If that is what you truely think then I think you ought to consider your own IQ.

Mine is well above room temperature and possibly higher than yours as I suspect is that of many who voted Brexit. It is your own elitest liberal arrogance that spawned Brexit and Trump. Something I would have hoped to avoid and possibly could have had it not been for guys like you. If you cannot see why then your IQ is not as high as you think!!!!

I've enough Irish in me that Phil would only say that once around me. When he returned from hospital he would be a great deal more careful with his words.

Whilst I appreciate your sentiments I would prefer to take these guys on the intelectual rather than the physical plain. That said your response supports my point that people like Phil are, perhaps unwittingly, the cause of what has happened in 2016 due to their arrogance. They seem blind to the sensibilities of so many of their fellow country-men.

I too prefer taking them on an intellectual level. The problem is there is none there to compete against. The inability of people to think for themselves has risen to such a level that even Frank, an educated engineer, who one would expect analysis of problems to be the mainstay of his profession is totally incapable of looking up one single thing himself and will make blank and totally absurd statements.

On Sunday, December 25, 2016 at 10:53:21 PM UTC-8, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 25 Dec 2016 10:29:03 -0800 (PST), wrote:

OK Phil, since you believe the world around you to be stupid
beyond belief and yourself to be very smart why don't you tell
us your local tides and the size of the installation that
would deliver the 25 mw that the largest windmills presently do.

I presume you mean 25MW megawatt, not milliwatt.
The largest single wind turbine so far is the Vestas V164 at 8MW.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vestas_V164
http://nozebra.ipapercms.dk/Vestas/Communication/Productbrochure/V16480MW/V16480MW/
I don't know of any that are planned at 25MW.

I would greatly appreciate it if you would provide your sources when
you throw numbers around.

Incidentally, the largest tidal plant is the Sihwa Lake Tidal Power
Station at 254MW.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sihwa_Lake_Tidal_Power_Station
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tidal_power_stations
The largest in UK seems to be 1.2MW:
http://www.seageneration.co.uk/

The proposed largest one's are supposedly 25 megawatts. But let's use the 6 megawatt if you like.

The tidal motions around most inhabited regions are about 6 feet every 12 hours. The "tidal" power stations you suggest are EXTREMELY rare areas that can be used more as hydroelectric DAMS and not real tidal power stations.

"After the seawall was built in 1994, pollution built up in the newly created Sihwa Lake reservoir, making its water useless for agriculture.[3] Concentrations of perfluorooctane sulfonate (PFOS) measured in Lake Sihwa were among the greatest ever measured in the environment.[9] In January 2003, PFOS had been found at 730 ng/L in Lake Shihwa water.[9]

In 2004, seawater was reintroduced in the hope of flushing out contamination; inflows from the tidal barrage were envisaged as a complementary permanent solution. As of 2007 the power station was planned to provide this indirect environmental benefit, as well as renewable energy.[3]"

If you think that you can shut off the Red Sea at both ends and build dams to generate power good luck.

On Sunday, December 25, 2016 at 11:43:57 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Sunday, December 25, 2016 at 7:17:13 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/25/2016 5:48 AM, wrote:
On Saturday, December 24, 2016 at 3:33:46 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/23/2016 8:23 PM, Phil Lee wrote:
Frank Krygowski considered Thu, 22 Dec 2016
16:15:16 -0500 the perfect time to write:

On 12/22/2016 3:39 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
Frank Krygowski writes:

On 12/22/2016 10:54 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
jbeattie writes:

On Wednesday, December 21, 2016 at 10:29:46 AM UTC-8, Radey Shouman wrote:

Well, a genuinely proportional representation system would be a start.

Per :
believe me - the motor vehicle will NOT go away no matter what they have to do. In the US distances are simply too far and loads being carried too large and the age and health of people not in a category to allow them to use either public transit or bicycles...

Somebody that I know very well was a civil engineer in Shanghai a bunch
of years ago when they were just starting to plan infrastructure changes
for the coming automobile age in China.

He was at a presentation/meeting where a group of planners from
Australia were pitching their solution - which basically involved
restricting motor vehicles and enhancing the cycling infrastructure.

All through the presentation this one old engineer kept mumbling stuff
in Mandarin - clearly unhappy with what he was hearing.

After the meeting he was asked "What were you saying?".

His reply was something very close to "You guys are soooo full of
****!.... Have you *ever* had to go *everywhere* by bicycle?"


--
Pete Cresswell

On Monday, December 26, 2016 at 8:20:19 AM UTC-8, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per :
believe me - the motor vehicle will NOT go away no matter what they have to do. In the US distances are simply too far and loads being carried too large and the age and health of people not in a category to allow them to use either public transit or bicycles...

Somebody that I know very well was a civil engineer in Shanghai a bunch
of years ago when they were just starting to plan infrastructure changes
for the coming automobile age in China.

He was at a presentation/meeting where a group of planners from
Australia were pitching their solution - which basically involved
restricting motor vehicles and enhancing the cycling infrastructure.

All through the presentation this one old engineer kept mumbling stuff
in Mandarin - clearly unhappy with what he was hearing.

After the meeting he was asked "What were you saying?".

His reply was something very close to "You guys are soooo full of
****!.... Have you *ever* had to go *everywhere* by bicycle?"

After my concussion I started having seizures while driving which caused wrecks thankfully with only one relatively minor injury. Finally I lost my license and had to go everywhere and do everything via bicycle. I was lucky that the one competent neurologist my friend found for me was 25 miles away and he would drive me there. How would you like finding yourself laying on the ground with no memory of how you got there? Not remembering where you were going or why? Trying to bring home more than one day's groceries via saddle bags? Having winter early morning doctor's appointments in the winter in a driving rain with double semi's roaring past you in the dark mere inches away with the only protection you have being a tail-light? Traffic lights that won't change for bicycles and doubly so now that most high end bicycles are carbon fiber?

Exactly HOW many people do you believe are going to change to bicycles or public transit?

On 12/25/2016 1:24 PM, wrote:
On Sunday, December 25, 2016 at 2:20:26 AM UTC-8, Phil Lee wrote:

Most people know it already (at least in the form we know now), but
are equally aware that it will happen very slowly, not overnight.
Which works well for recycling the vehicles, as well as allowing
people to become accustomed to the change in circumstances by moving
to live nearer to where they work (or work to move nearer to their
workforce). public transport to be developed back to it's former
scale, and so on.

Phil, being where the sun doesn't shine perhaps you're unfamiliar with US culture but believe me - the motor vehicle will NOT go away no matter what they have to do. In the US distances are simply too far and loads being carried too large and the age and health of people not in a category to allow them to use either public transit or bicycles. Not that I don't think it a good idea.

Employers WILL NOT relocate closer to their workers - already in some businesses in San Francisco half of their workers are coming in from Sacramento and the numbers of available workers in Sacramento would easily make up for the loses.

Silicon Valley is situated in a very small area in San Jose, Sunnyvale and Mountain View. I live 30 miles away but the commute would be two hours in each direction. Most of their employees do not live anywhere NEAR Silicon Valley but you don't see them moving to the MUCH cheaper areas with vast amounts of open industrial buildings.

Relieving the traffic along these corridor would allow those laid off in San Francisco to find jobs closer to their own homes. Industrial growth could have a GIANT kick in the pants and start afresh but instead they remain fixed in areas that are so traffic bound that people spend as much time commuting as working.

If people are so stupid to put up with this they sure aren't going to get rid of cars as long as there is one single gallon of petrol available.

I've got to agree. And regarding the distance between workers and
employers: In the glory days of steel towns, textile mills and the
like, there was a great influx of poor immigrants willing to live in
homes within walking distance of work, and work for the same company for
decades.

But those mega-factories are largely gone, corporations are expected to
leave town whenever they can get a better deal elsewhere, and employees
are told they need to be agile and adaptable so they can change jobs
every five years. Oh, and pay for their own retirement and medical
insurance.

I was lucky in that I had stable employment. I chose my houses
specifically to be within bike distance of work. But I know very
intelligent engineers who have had to drive as much 60 miles to get to
work, after companies closed, or design offices were moved, etc. Given
the fact that America has been built without mass transit, I think motor
vehicles of one type or another are here to stay for the foreseeable future.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, December 26, 2016 at 8:56:51 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/25/2016 1:24 PM, wrote:
On Sunday, December 25, 2016 at 2:20:26 AM UTC-8, Phil Lee wrote:

Most people know it already (at least in the form we know now), but
are equally aware that it will happen very slowly, not overnight.
Which works well for recycling the vehicles, as well as allowing
people to become accustomed to the change in circumstances by moving
to live nearer to where they work (or work to move nearer to their
workforce). public transport to be developed back to it's former
scale, and so on.

Phil, being where the sun doesn't shine perhaps you're unfamiliar with US culture but believe me - the motor vehicle will NOT go away no matter what they have to do. In the US distances are simply too far and loads being carried too large and the age and health of people not in a category to allow them to use either public transit or bicycles. Not that I don't think it a good idea.

Employers WILL NOT relocate closer to their workers - already in some businesses in San Francisco half of their workers are coming in from Sacramento and the numbers of available workers in Sacramento would easily make up for the loses.

Silicon Valley is situated in a very small area in San Jose, Sunnyvale and Mountain View. I live 30 miles away but the commute would be two hours in each direction. Most of their employees do not live anywhere NEAR Silicon Valley but you don't see them moving to the MUCH cheaper areas with vast amounts of open industrial buildings.

Relieving the traffic along these corridor would allow those laid off in San Francisco to find jobs closer to their own homes. Industrial growth could have a GIANT kick in the pants and start afresh but instead they remain fixed in areas that are so traffic bound that people spend as much time commuting as working.

If people are so stupid to put up with this they sure aren't going to get rid of cars as long as there is one single gallon of petrol available.

I've got to agree. And regarding the distance between workers and
employers: In the glory days of steel towns, textile mills and the
like, there was a great influx of poor immigrants willing to live in
homes within walking distance of work, and work for the same company for
decades.

But those mega-factories are largely gone, corporations are expected to
leave town whenever they can get a better deal elsewhere, and employees
are told they need to be agile and adaptable so they can change jobs
every five years. Oh, and pay for their own retirement and medical
insurance.

I was lucky in that I had stable employment. I chose my houses
specifically to be within bike distance of work. But I know very
intelligent engineers who have had to drive as much 60 miles to get to
work, after companies closed, or design offices were moved, etc. Given
the fact that America has been built without mass transit, I think motor
vehicles of one type or another are here to stay for the foreseeable future.

I have YET to see practical mass transit and I spent three years working for Bay Area Rapid Transit before becoming too bored with the work and decided that I would rather have exciting work than a great retirement.