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#21
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"We Object to Dirty Air!"
Why don't you just **** off & live on Sark?
-- Dave - Cyclists VOR. "Many people barely recognise the bicycle as a legitimate mode of transport; it is either a toy for children or a vehicle fit only for the poor and/or strange," Dave Horton - Lancaster University |
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#22
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"We Object to Dirty Air!"
On Jun 1, 8:33*am, "Mrcheerful" wrote:
Doug wrote: On May 31, 8:24 am, "Mrcheerful" wrote: Fredxx wrote: On 31/05/2012 07:12, Doug wrote: On May 30, 8:45 am, "Norman wrote: Doug wrote: "8.30am, Wednesday 30th May, Royal Courts of Justice, The Strand (map) Client Earth took Defra to court over breaching EU air quality laws in December 2011. Defra was forced to admit that our air is illegally polluted but they werent forced to change their plans to improve our air quality so that we can breathe safely. If Defra are ordered by the Court to clean up their act it would make a huge difference to our quality of air and quality of life. The Court of Appeal will review the case tomorrow and we will be outside the Royal Courts of Justice to let the judge know that we object to dirty air! Join us at 8:30am, bring your colourful feather duster, marigolds, headscarf and pinny and help us clean the Court. We are especially hoping that people affected by asthma might come along and join us if you would like any more info on this action then get in touch with us at or read more about the case he http://www.businessgreen.com/bg/news...t-appeal-pollu... "...The case concerns Defra's proposals to bring nitrogen dioxide (NO2) within legal limits by 1 January 2015, which includes plans to encourage more local councils to introduce low-emissions zones for road transport. However, the plans showed that 17 of the air quality zones, including London, would still fail to achieve compliance by 2015, meaning the UK could potentially face multimillion-pound fines from Brussels for failing to hit the target..." What about the pollution from particulate pollen that trees and grasses put out in vast clouds every spring and summer without a by-your-leave, and which causes such untold misery that there are shelves full of medications in Boots to deal with the consequences? It's a far worse problem than NO2, so why aren't your mates dealing with that? Where did you get the idea that pollen is worse? Source? BTW, why do you seem to be in favour of harmful air pollution from cars, instead of condemning it? ?? How many people suffer from asthma and hayfever from pollen, far more than from NO2. Where do you get the idea of anything different? Source? Quote? What's wrong with Londoners stewing in their own pollution? If its motorists suffering it is rough justice but they inflict their noxious gases on other people too. Turn off your gas! as I have told you before, domestic gas usage puts out more NOx than cars do (in London) Since you are too lazy to look it up, here is the link:http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...ers/taxi-works... You are too lazy even to read your own source which clearly says... "Two main air pollutants which impact health NOx (nitrogen oxides: NO, NO2) Causes respiratory problems and aggravates asthma. Main source is road transport , though industrial and domestic heating also important. Particulate matter (PM) aggravates respiratory and cardiovascular conditions. Main source is road transport though construction sites also important." I suppose you will now tell me that I have invented and created that report and somehow put it on the tfl website. What I can tell you is that you obviously have some kind of a reading problem. look at the chart that shows the output from each source, gas puts out far more than cars. So your source contradicts itself? Not very good is it. Maybe you need a better source. Also you are still neglecting the fact that gas or not you pollute more than me because you use a car and I do not. -- . A driving licence is sometimes a licence to kill. -- . A driving licence is sometimes a licence to kill. |
#23
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"We Object to Dirty Air!"
On Jun 1, 8:55*am, "Norman Wells" wrote:
Doug wrote: On May 31, 9:24 am, "Norman Wells" wrote: Doug wrote: On May 30, 8:45 am, "Norman Wells" wrote: What about the pollution from particulate pollen that trees and grasses put out in vast clouds every spring and summer without a by-your-leave, and which causes such untold misery that there are shelves full of medications in Boots to deal with the consequences? It's a far worse problem than NO2, so why aren't your mates dealing with that? Where did you get the idea that pollen is worse? Source? BTW, why do you seem to be in favour of harmful air pollution from cars, instead of condemning it? Just look in Boots. Endless rows of medications to deal with hayfever, rhinitis, synovitis, conjunctivitis and allergies. Endless preparations of anti-histamines and steroids. All to combat the effects of tree and grass pollen pollution. Everyone knows loads of people with such allergies. You yourself have one, even though you try to blame it without any foundation whatever on car pollution. Now show me the equivalent medications in Boots to deal with ailments caused by car pollution. Rubbish! Instead they have no treatment for poisoning by air pollution. Why am I not surprised that you cannot come up with a source to confirm your wild claim. See, it's not a problem. Pollen undoubtedly is. You are seriously trying to claim that air pollution is not a problem when it is known to kill thousands of people? Well, let's look at the Wikipedia entry just for rhinitis, shall we? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allergic_rhinitis "Allergic rhinitis triggered by the pollens of specific seasonal plants is commonly known as 'hay fever'". "Allergic rhinitis is an allergic inflammation of the nasal airways. It occurs when an allergen, such as pollen, dust or animal dander (particles of shed skin and hair) is inhaled by an individual with a sensitized immune system "It is roughly estimated that one in three people have an active allergy at any given time and at least three in four people develop an allergic reaction at least once in their lives. In Western countries between 10-25% of people annually are affected by allergic rhinitis." Do note the last bit of the above especially, Doug: "In Western countries between 10-25% of people annually are affected by allergic rhinitis". Up to a quarter of people suffer from ******* pollen every year. *That's why there are shelves full of remedies for it in Boots. *And that's why I say: A tree is a licence to kill. Where does it say how many people are killed by pollen? You are also neglecting the fact that air pollution can also cause an allergic reaction. -- . A driving licence is sometimes a licence to kill. |
#24
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"We Object to Dirty Air!"
Doug wrote:
On Jun 1, 8:55 am, "Norman Wells" wrote: What about the pollution from particulate pollen that trees and grasses put out in vast clouds every spring and summer without a by-your-leave, and which causes such untold misery that there are shelves full of medications in Boots to deal with the consequences? It's a far worse problem than NO2, so why aren't your mates dealing with that? Where did you get the idea that pollen is worse? Source? BTW, why do you seem to be in favour of harmful air pollution from cars, instead of condemning it? Just look in Boots. Endless rows of medications to deal with hayfever, rhinitis, synovitis, conjunctivitis and allergies. Endless preparations of anti-histamines and steroids. All to combat the effects of tree and grass pollen pollution. Everyone knows loads of people with such allergies. You yourself have one, even though you try to blame it without any foundation whatever on car pollution. Now show me the equivalent medications in Boots to deal with ailments caused by car pollution. Rubbish! Instead they have no treatment for poisoning by air pollution. Why am I not surprised that you cannot come up with a source to confirm your wild claim. See, it's not a problem. Pollen undoubtedly is. You are seriously trying to claim that air pollution is not a problem when it is known to kill thousands of people? Well, let's look at the Wikipedia entry just for rhinitis, shall we? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allergic_rhinitis "Allergic rhinitis triggered by the pollens of specific seasonal plants is commonly known as 'hay fever'". "Allergic rhinitis is an allergic inflammation of the nasal airways. It occurs when an allergen, such as pollen, dust or animal dander (particles of shed skin and hair) is inhaled by an individual with a sensitized immune system "It is roughly estimated that one in three people have an active allergy at any given time and at least three in four people develop an allergic reaction at least once in their lives. In Western countries between 10-25% of people annually are affected by allergic rhinitis." Do note the last bit of the above especially, Doug: "In Western countries between 10-25% of people annually are affected by allergic rhinitis". Up to a quarter of people suffer from ******* pollen every year. That's why there are shelves full of remedies for it in Boots. And that's why I say: A tree is a licence to kill. Where does it say how many people are killed by pollen? See for example: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/728562.stm "The hayfever season may trigger an increase in the numbers who die from heart attacks and respiratory disease, say experts. Although increases in other forms of air pollution have long been associated with this, pollen has not been closely examined. The study, in the Netherlands, looked at days in which pollen pollution was higher than normal - and looked at how many people died from heart attacks and other causes on those days. They found that there were 5% to 10% more deaths on "high pollution" days. The increased risk mainly affected people suffering from pneumonia or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, a combination of bronchitis and emphysema. But there was still a smaller increased risk of dying from a heart attack. The higher the pollen levels, the higher the risk of mortality from either cause. The team reported: "Our findings, if substantiated, suggest that high airborne pollen concentrations, which nowadays are mainly seen as triggers of allergic symptoms, may have far more serious effects than previously thought." You are also neglecting the fact that air pollution can also cause an allergic reaction. No, I'm not. I'm dealing with pollen and how evil it is. If you and your mates are truly concerned about the ill effects of airborne pollution, you really should be going round cutting down trees. A tree is a licence to kill. |
#25
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"We Object to Dirty Air!"
"Doug" wrote in message ... On Jun 1, 8:33 am, "Mrcheerful" wrote: Doug wrote: On May 31, 8:24 am, "Mrcheerful" wrote: Fredxx wrote: On 31/05/2012 07:12, Doug wrote: On May 30, 8:45 am, "Norman wrote: Doug wrote: "8.30am, Wednesday 30th May, Royal Courts of Justice, The Strand (map) Client Earth took Defra to court over breaching EU air quality laws in December 2011. Defra was forced to admit that our air is illegally polluted but they werent forced to change their plans to improve our air quality so that we can breathe safely. If Defra are ordered by the Court to clean up their act it would make a huge difference to our quality of air and quality of life. The Court of Appeal will review the case tomorrow and we will be outside the Royal Courts of Justice to let the judge know that we object to dirty air! Join us at 8:30am, bring your colourful feather duster, marigolds, headscarf and pinny and help us clean the Court. We are especially hoping that people affected by asthma might come along and join us if you would like any more info on this action then get in touch with us at or read more about the case he http://www.businessgreen.com/bg/news...t-appeal-pollu... "...The case concerns Defra's proposals to bring nitrogen dioxide (NO2) within legal limits by 1 January 2015, which includes plans to encourage more local councils to introduce low-emissions zones for road transport. However, the plans showed that 17 of the air quality zones, including London, would still fail to achieve compliance by 2015, meaning the UK could potentially face multimillion-pound fines from Brussels for failing to hit the target..." What about the pollution from particulate pollen that trees and grasses put out in vast clouds every spring and summer without a by-your-leave, and which causes such untold misery that there are shelves full of medications in Boots to deal with the consequences? It's a far worse problem than NO2, so why aren't your mates dealing with that? Where did you get the idea that pollen is worse? Source? BTW, why do you seem to be in favour of harmful air pollution from cars, instead of condemning it? ?? How many people suffer from asthma and hayfever from pollen, far more than from NO2. Where do you get the idea of anything different? Source? Quote? What's wrong with Londoners stewing in their own pollution? If its motorists suffering it is rough justice but they inflict their noxious gases on other people too. Turn off your gas! as I have told you before, domestic gas usage puts out more NOx than cars do (in London) Since you are too lazy to look it up, here is the link:http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...ers/taxi-works... You are too lazy even to read your own source which clearly says... "Two main air pollutants which impact health NOx (nitrogen oxides: NO, NO2) Causes respiratory problems and aggravates asthma. Main source is road transport , though industrial and domestic heating also important. Particulate matter (PM) aggravates respiratory and cardiovascular conditions. Main source is road transport though construction sites also important." I suppose you will now tell me that I have invented and created that report and somehow put it on the tfl website. What I can tell you is that you obviously have some kind of a reading problem. look at the chart that shows the output from each source, gas puts out far more than cars. So your source contradicts itself? Not very good is it. Maybe you need a better source. Also you are still neglecting the fact that gas or not you pollute more than me because you use a car and I do not. -- . You need to re-read that which I wrote. The source is OK, it is your misunderstanding. I stated CARS produce less NOx than domestic gas usage, you seem to interpret cars as being all road vehicles (which in total do make more NOx than domestic gas usage) |
#26
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"We Object to Dirty Air!"
On 02/06/2012 09:01, Norman Wells wrote:
No, I'm not. I'm dealing with pollen and how evil it is. If you and your mates are truly concerned about the ill effects of airborne pollution, you really should be going round cutting down trees. A tree is a licence to kill. A tree weapon is a licence to kill -- Dave - Cyclists VOR. "Many people barely recognise the bicycle as a legitimate mode of transport; it is either a toy for children or a vehicle fit only for the poor and/or strange," Dave Horton - Lancaster University |
#27
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"We Object to Dirty Air!"
On Jun 2, 11:33*am, "Mrcheerful" wrote:
"Doug" wrote in message ... On Jun 1, 8:33 am, "Mrcheerful" wrote: Doug wrote: On May 31, 8:24 am, "Mrcheerful" wrote: Fredxx wrote: On 31/05/2012 07:12, Doug wrote: On May 30, 8:45 am, "Norman wrote: Doug wrote: "8.30am, Wednesday 30th May, Royal Courts of Justice, The Strand (map) Client Earth took Defra to court over breaching EU air quality laws in December 2011. Defra was forced to admit that our air is illegally polluted but they werent forced to change their plans to improve our air quality so that we can breathe safely. If Defra are ordered by the Court to clean up their act it would make a huge difference to our quality of air and quality of life. The Court of Appeal will review the case tomorrow and we will be outside the Royal Courts of Justice to let the judge know that we object to dirty air! Join us at 8:30am, bring your colourful feather duster, marigolds, headscarf and pinny and help us clean the Court. We are especially hoping that people affected by asthma might come along and join us if you would like any more info on this action then get in touch with us at or read more about the case he http://www.businessgreen.com/bg/news...t-appeal-pollu... "...The case concerns Defra's proposals to bring nitrogen dioxide (NO2) within legal limits by 1 January 2015, which includes plans to encourage more local councils to introduce low-emissions zones for road transport. However, the plans showed that 17 of the air quality zones, including London, would still fail to achieve compliance by 2015, meaning the UK could potentially face multimillion-pound fines from Brussels for failing to hit the target..." What about the pollution from particulate pollen that trees and grasses put out in vast clouds every spring and summer without a by-your-leave, and which causes such untold misery that there are shelves full of medications in Boots to deal with the consequences? It's a far worse problem than NO2, so why aren't your mates dealing with that? Where did you get the idea that pollen is worse? Source? BTW, why do you seem to be in favour of harmful air pollution from cars, instead of condemning it? ?? How many people suffer from asthma and hayfever from pollen, far more than from NO2. Where do you get the idea of anything different? Source? Quote? What's wrong with Londoners stewing in their own pollution? If its motorists suffering it is rough justice but they inflict their noxious gases on other people too. Turn off your gas! as I have told you before, domestic gas usage puts out more NOx than cars do (in London) Since you are too lazy to look it up, here is the link:http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...ers/taxi-works... You are too lazy even to read your own source which clearly says... "Two main air pollutants which impact health NOx (nitrogen oxides: NO, NO2) Causes respiratory problems and aggravates asthma. Main source is road transport , though industrial and domestic heating also important. Particulate matter (PM) aggravates respiratory and cardiovascular conditions. Main source is road transport though construction sites also important." I suppose you will now tell me that I have invented and created that report and somehow put it on the tfl website. What I can tell you is that you obviously have some kind of a reading problem. look at the chart that shows the output from each source, gas puts out far more than cars. So your source contradicts itself? Not very good is it. Maybe you need a better source. Also you are still neglecting the fact that gas or not you pollute more than me because you use a car and I do not. -- . You need to re-read that which I wrote. The source is OK, it is your misunderstanding. *I stated CARS produce less NOx than domestic gas usage, you seem to interpret cars as being all road vehicles (which in total do make more NOx than domestic gas usage) OK then. You have failed for some reason to explain what you use for heating so I must assume it is electricity. Of course, if you burn anything at all for heating your pollution will be even worse. Some deprecate the use of electricity for heating on the grounds that it is high quality energy which is being wasted and that is why I don't use it for heating. Thus the pollution you use with a combination of household electricity and the use of a car is still more than mine. End of story. -- . A driving licence is sometimes a licence to kill. |
#28
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"We Object to Dirty Air!"
On Jun 2, 9:01*am, "Norman Wells" wrote:
Doug wrote: On Jun 1, 8:55 am, "Norman Wells" wrote: What about the pollution from particulate pollen that trees and grasses put out in vast clouds every spring and summer without a by-your-leave, and which causes such untold misery that there are shelves full of medications in Boots to deal with the consequences? It's a far worse problem than NO2, so why aren't your mates dealing with that? Where did you get the idea that pollen is worse? Source? BTW, why do you seem to be in favour of harmful air pollution from cars, instead of condemning it? Just look in Boots. Endless rows of medications to deal with hayfever, rhinitis, synovitis, conjunctivitis and allergies. Endless preparations of anti-histamines and steroids. All to combat the effects of tree and grass pollen pollution. Everyone knows loads of people with such allergies. You yourself have one, even though you try to blame it without any foundation whatever on car pollution. Now show me the equivalent medications in Boots to deal with ailments caused by car pollution. Rubbish! Instead they have no treatment for poisoning by air pollution. Why am I not surprised that you cannot come up with a source to confirm your wild claim. See, it's not a problem. Pollen undoubtedly is. You are seriously trying to claim that air pollution is not a problem when it is known to kill thousands of people? Well, let's look at the Wikipedia entry just for rhinitis, shall we? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allergic_rhinitis "Allergic rhinitis triggered by the pollens of specific seasonal plants is commonly known as 'hay fever'". "Allergic rhinitis is an allergic inflammation of the nasal airways. It occurs when an allergen, such as pollen, dust or animal dander (particles of shed skin and hair) is inhaled by an individual with a sensitized immune system "It is roughly estimated that one in three people have an active allergy at any given time and at least three in four people develop an allergic reaction at least once in their lives. In Western countries between 10-25% of people annually are affected by allergic rhinitis." Do note the last bit of the above especially, Doug: "In Western countries between 10-25% of people annually are affected by allergic rhinitis". Up to a quarter of people suffer from ******* pollen every year. That's why there are shelves full of remedies for it in Boots. And that's why I say: A tree is a licence to kill. Where does it say how many people are killed by pollen? See for example: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/728562.stm "The hayfever season may trigger an increase in the numbers who die from heart attacks and respiratory disease, say experts. Although increases in other forms of air pollution have long been associated with this, pollen has not been closely examined. The study, in the Netherlands, looked at days in which pollen pollution was higher than normal - and looked at how many people died from heart attacks and other causes on those days. They found that there were 5% to 10% more deaths on "high pollution" days. The increased risk mainly affected people suffering from pneumonia or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, a combination of bronchitis and emphysema. But there was still a smaller increased risk of dying from a heart attack. The higher the pollen levels, the higher the risk of mortality from either cause. The team reported: "Our findings, if substantiated, suggest that high airborne pollen concentrations, which nowadays are mainly seen as triggers of allergic symptoms, may have far more serious effects than previously thought." You are also neglecting the fact that air pollution can also cause an allergic reaction. No, I'm not. *I'm dealing with pollen and how evil it is. *If you and your mates are truly concerned about the ill effects of airborne pollution, you really should be going round cutting down trees. A tree is a licence to kill. You are confusing natural causes of death with man-made causes which should not be allowed anyway. You know that your car contributes to the deaths of others but you are still allowed to use it. There is virtually nothing that can be done by you or anyone else about pollen, which has existed long before humans. Behind all of this though is your desperate attempts to somehow vindicate your car pollution by trying to compare it with natural causes of death. -- . A driving licence is sometimes a licence to kill. |
#29
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"We Object to Dirty Air!"
Doug wrote:
On Jun 2, 9:01 am, "Norman Wells" wrote: Doug wrote: On Jun 1, 8:55 am, "Norman Wells" wrote: The higher the pollen levels, the higher the risk of mortality from either cause. The team reported: "Our findings, if substantiated, suggest that high airborne pollen concentrations, which nowadays are mainly seen as triggers of allergic symptoms, may have far more serious effects than previously thought." You are also neglecting the fact that air pollution can also cause an allergic reaction. No, I'm not. I'm dealing with pollen and how evil it is. If you and your mates are truly concerned about the ill effects of airborne pollution, you really should be going round cutting down trees. A tree is a licence to kill. You are confusing natural causes of death with man-made causes which should not be allowed anyway. You know that your car contributes to the deaths of others but you are still allowed to use it. There is virtually nothing that can be done by you or anyone else about pollen, which has existed long before humans. I don't think being 'natural' makes it any better for anyone affected. Pollen causes deaths and very unpleasant ones, and I don't think anyone should be just accepting it and saying 'Oh, it's natural, so that's OK then'. It's a far bigger problem than man-made pollution and it needs to be dealt with. I've suggested one way, which is for your mates to go round cutting down trees. If you don't want to to do that, you should at least be trying to cover them up in pollen-proof bags. Why should the rest of us have to suffer because of your liking for all things 'natural', which are even more toxic than those that are man-made? Behind all of this though is your desperate attempts to somehow vindicate your car pollution by trying to compare it with natural causes of death. A tree is a licence to kill. |
#30
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"We Object to Dirty Air!"
On Mon, 4 Jun 2012 08:55:57 +0100, "Norman Wells"
wrote: Doug wrote: On Jun 2, 9:01 am, "Norman Wells" wrote: Doug wrote: On Jun 1, 8:55 am, "Norman Wells" wrote: The higher the pollen levels, the higher the risk of mortality from either cause. The team reported: "Our findings, if substantiated, suggest that high airborne pollen concentrations, which nowadays are mainly seen as triggers of allergic symptoms, may have far more serious effects than previously thought." You are also neglecting the fact that air pollution can also cause an allergic reaction. No, I'm not. I'm dealing with pollen and how evil it is. If you and your mates are truly concerned about the ill effects of airborne pollution, you really should be going round cutting down trees. A tree is a licence to kill. You are confusing natural causes of death with man-made causes which should not be allowed anyway. You know that your car contributes to the deaths of others but you are still allowed to use it. There is virtually nothing that can be done by you or anyone else about pollen, which has existed long before humans. I don't think being 'natural' makes it any better for anyone affected. Pollen causes deaths and very unpleasant ones, and I don't think anyone should be just accepting it and saying 'Oh, it's natural, so that's OK then'. It's a far bigger problem than man-made pollution and it needs to be dealt with. I've suggested one way, which is for your mates to go round cutting down trees. If you don't want to to do that, you should at least be trying to cover them up in pollen-proof bags. Why should the rest of us have to suffer because of your liking for all things 'natural', which are even more toxic than those that are man-made? Behind all of this though is your desperate attempts to somehow vindicate your car pollution by trying to compare it with natural causes of death. A tree is a licence to kill. You should amend that to "A tree is sometimes a licence to kill." as not all trees kill. |
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