Trek / Bianchi story

jj wrote:

In fact when I got my first (recent) bike, I -told- the LBS owner I needed
higher bars and he freakin' cut off the handlebar stem -anyway- (claimed he
"forgot"). The real truth is probably closer to 'dude, you're old, you
shouldn't be riding bikes, they're for athletes', or something.

When I went in to select a bike he tried to sell me a suspended bike with a
big saddle, and wouldn't even fit me to the bike I did purchase. In fact he
wandered off in the middle of a sentence as I was asking him to show me how
to remove the front wheel, (and was getting out my credit card to have him
ring me up) to service a walk-in who was just browsing. If I'd had any
sense, I'd have walked out of the store.


You should have followed your gut instinct and walked. There is no
excuse for his behavior and he should not be rewarded with a sale. My
LBS experience is that it varies greatly and I happily give my business
to the shop(s) that treat me well. My most recent bike is of much higer
quality than I am a rider :-). And the LBS where I bought it sells only
higher end bikes and has lots of serious racers as customers. Yet I was
treated with respect and interest and they spent literally hours with
me as I worked out my bike lust and then spent several sessions on the
fit so that it became "just right."
Well worth the small premium I paid over gettin ght bike on line.

On 5 Oct 2005 08:40:56 -0700, "gds" wrote:


jj wrote:

In fact when I got my first (recent) bike, I -told- the LBS owner I needed
higher bars and he freakin' cut off the handlebar stem -anyway- (claimed he
"forgot"). The real truth is probably closer to 'dude, you're old, you
shouldn't be riding bikes, they're for athletes', or something.

When I went in to select a bike he tried to sell me a suspended bike with a
big saddle, and wouldn't even fit me to the bike I did purchase. In fact he
wandered off in the middle of a sentence as I was asking him to show me how
to remove the front wheel, (and was getting out my credit card to have him
ring me up) to service a walk-in who was just browsing. If I'd had any
sense, I'd have walked out of the store.


You should have followed your gut instinct and walked. There is no
excuse for his behavior and he should not be rewarded with a sale.

True. But he had ordered this bike for me to try and I felt a little
obligated. Shouldn't have been, b/c they order bikes all the time.

I'm slow to anger and it was only afterwards that I got steamed at this.
The LBS people are frequently, ime, elitist, acting bothered if you come
into the store, making even experienced people hesitate to ask for help, or
to request a test ride, sighing and acting perturbed. Note one poster
feeling bad because he had returned to the store three times and had the
wrench ask 'you back again!' Some stores, if you're not a competitive MTB
rider, or roadie, depending on their particular bias, will hardly even talk
to you, making you ask for everything, volunteering nothing - you have to
pump them for every bit of info, and they're even give authoritively
sounding but patently wrong answers to valid questions.

My LBS experience is that it varies greatly and I happily give my business
to the shop(s) that treat me well.

I know this now.

My most recent bike is of much higer
quality than I am a rider :-). And the LBS where I bought it sells only
higher end bikes and has lots of serious racers as customers.

Mine should have gotten a clue given the depth and scope of the questions I
was asking, but no...

Yet I was treated with respect and interest and they spent literally hours with
me as I worked out my bike lust and then spent several sessions on the
fit so that it became "just right."

Heh. I simply can't imagine an LBS sending 'hours', hell, even one hour
with me helping to select and set up a bike. Of course I've only been to
three local shops and one or two out of town shop. You're lucky, imo.

Even the best LBS I visited, out of town, nice guys all, wanted me to ride
the bike around the sparse space on the showroom floor, around a small
aisle, surrounded by bikes, rather than test ride outside. Sheesh. At least
they finally set me up on a trainer, and then said I could ride in the
parking lot. They didn't make it easy, but weren't overtly hostile like my
local shop.

Well worth the small premium I paid over gettin ght bike on line.

Sure.

jj

I'm thinking his wife needed to mind their own business. Is there any real
difference between a Taiwanese Trek and a Taiwanese Bianchi? Nope.

You are quite mistaken. That's like saying there's no difference between an
IBM laptop and a GQ (Fry's/Outpost house brand). Just because both are made
in either China or Taiwan doesn't put them on the same level. The bike
manufacturers in Asia will only build to what's expected and paid for.
They're as willing to build cheap garbage with great paint jobs as they are
great frames with poor paint. I've been fortunate to be at the table on
nearly all sides of this industry, and, while I can't speak for what goes on
at many companies, I do have the inside track at Trek. They benefit greatly
from having substantial manufacturing experience, so they have a better
handle than most in terms of what can, and should, be done. They have their
own internal tests for durability, for example... something not found at
most other companies, who simply order from a literal catalog of options and
then bring in bikes by the container, shipping them out directly to dealer
without ever having looked at the finished product.

Trek also has *huge* leverage with suppliers, such that they're less-likely
to be sold product with problems (because it will come back to them in a way
that hurts financially). Not to say that things don't happen that shouldn't,
but when they do, Trek is known to be one of the very best in the business
in terms of taking care of things.

So please, don't assume that country of origin, by itself, has much to do
with the quality of the product. It's always dependent upon the people who
spec it, the people who check it, the people who stand behind it. Even down
to the level of the dealer.

PS: This isn't meant to slam Bianchi. It's only meant to dispel the myth
that all bikes from a certain country, or even from the same factory within
that country, are equivalent. I have no grudge whatsoever against a company
where one of the high-ups is a guy I used to race with back in the 70s,
almost pure sprinter, who used to wheel-suck every chance he could and then
race past us for the win at the end. And I certainly have no memories of the
Patterson Pass Road Race in 1973(?) when we were juniors and I didn't
realize they'd lifted the gear restriction for that race, and us climbers
were taking it way too easy and didn't blow Rod off he back on a climb
there's no excuse for us not dropping him on, and so when we got to the
downwhill, tailwind sprint... :) [The reality is that Rod was, and likely
still is, a really great guy. You could probably do worse than buy a bike
from his company.]

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"Gooserider" wrote in message
m...

"~R" wrote in message
news
I was wheeling my bike (trek) out of the building, on my way out
the door leaving work last evening, when a middle aged woman
joined me on the elevatoer. She looked at my bike in a slight
disgust and said, "ewww, Trek!". "Wha? Treks are great! What's
wrong with Trek?", I replaied. She explained that her husband was
the local Bianchi rep and I should be riding a Bianchi! She was
very insistant.

"Ya know what", I said, "back in May when I was shopping around
for a bike, I looked everywhere in town for a freakin' Bianchi,
and there were NONE to be bought anywhere. There was one small
time bike shop that I visited, and the guy said he was 'between
brands' at the time. Meaning he just got out of a deal with one
company and was about to attmept to start dealing with another,
namely Bianchi. He showed me a catologue of these gorgeous
Bianchis, but I couldn't wait around to see if it actually went
through. He sounded wishy washy on the certainty of Bianchi
coming in to his store. " She still insisted I go find a Bianchi.
I should call her husband and he'll order one for me. I'm
thinking that if he's a local rep, he should probably get his
bikes into some local stores. Is that unreasonable? Especially if
he wants to make any money.

And it was May, for Christ-sake! The riding bug was in full bite,
and I was ready to go. I bought the best bike I could afford
after 2 weeks of driving LBS owners crazy trying every bike under
$1000 in their stores. A Trek 7200 FX, and I'm real happy with
it. BTW, I didn't see any Bianchi's winning any stages in the
TDF, or did I miss something?


I'm thinking his wife needed to mind their own business. Is there any real
difference between a Taiwanese Trek and a Taiwanese Bianchi? Nope.

In fact when I got my first (recent) bike, I -told- the LBS owner I needed
higher bars and he freakin' cut off the handlebar stem -anyway- (claimed
he
"forgot"). The real truth is probably closer to 'dude, you're old, you
shouldn't be riding bikes, they're for athletes', or something.

Wait a sec, I'm not reading something right. Are you saying the LBS cut down
the steer tube, to get the bars lower? That can't be right. Please tell me
it's not right. You say "cut off the handlebar stem" so maybe it's something
else.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 17:34:44 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
wrote:

In fact when I got my first (recent) bike, I -told- the LBS owner I needed
higher bars and he freakin' cut off the handlebar stem -anyway- (claimed
he
"forgot"). The real truth is probably closer to 'dude, you're old, you
shouldn't be riding bikes, they're for athletes', or something.

Wait a sec, I'm not reading something right. Are you saying the LBS cut down
the steer tube, to get the bars lower? That can't be right. Please tell me
it's not right. You say "cut off the handlebar stem" so maybe it's something
else.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


Ok, sorry, Mike, wrong term. He cut off the steering tube short. Like this:

http://www.bicyclemotor.com/techhelp...orktosize.html

My understanding is they come long and you fit it and then cut to the
desired length and use spacers as needed. If he'd have left it long and
used more spacers, it would have been a better fit for me.

jj

On 5 Oct 2005 04:54:11 -0700, wrote:

If the bike is
available in Celeste it's made in italy

not completely true, the Milano has been available in Celeste, but not
made in Italy

Ok, sorry, Mike, wrong term. He cut off the steering tube short. Like
this:

http://www.bicyclemotor.com/techhelp...orktosize.html

My understanding is they come long and you fit it and then cut to the
desired length and use spacers as needed. If he'd have left it long and
used more spacers, it would have been a better fit for me.

jj

JJ: Routinely cutting down fork columns doesn't make sense to me. If someone
doesn't want the stem so high, they can first reverse the stem (so it point
level or perhaps even down, instead of up), and if that's still not enough,
they can move spacers from the bottom to the top. This might not look as
pretty, but it gives you a lot more flexibility down the road since once you
cut a fork, you can't make it taller (aside from putting on adapter pieces).

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

"jj" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 17:34:44 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky"

wrote:

In fact when I got my first (recent) bike, I -told- the LBS owner I
needed
higher bars and he freakin' cut off the handlebar stem -anyway- (claimed
he
"forgot"). The real truth is probably closer to 'dude, you're old, you
shouldn't be riding bikes, they're for athletes', or something.

Wait a sec, I'm not reading something right. Are you saying the LBS cut
down
the steer tube, to get the bars lower? That can't be right. Please tell me
it's not right. You say "cut off the handlebar stem" so maybe it's
something
else.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


Ok, sorry, Mike, wrong term. He cut off the steering tube short. Like
this:

http://www.bicyclemotor.com/techhelp...orktosize.html

My understanding is they come long and you fit it and then cut to the
desired length and use spacers as needed. If he'd have left it long and
used more spacers, it would have been a better fit for me.

jj

jj wrote:
[...jj is surprised OP bought a low-end hybrid after talking about test-
riding kilobuck bikes, and another rbm'er takes jj to task for it...]

The reason I asked is because it didn't make sense that he'd ride a dozen
bikes with a budget of $1000 bucks and he'd go with a $280 dollar bike
with near bottom of the line components.

Then why didn't your post say that?

I did. Second sentence. "why the 72....".

I asked about the mileage as partly a point of interest, partly to gauge
his experience and ability. If he's riding 5 miles three times a week, then
of course any LBS bike, hybrid or roadie will do.

If I seem to have an agenda about road bikes vs hybrids and comfort bikes,
it's because I'm annoyed at the industry, trying to foist off bikes that
are not ideal on beginning riders. They make it seem that a road bike with
drop bars is hard to ride, and any such bike is for racers and will be set
up for racers with a 4" drop from saddle to bars (they cut off the
handlebar stem very short).

Hear ****in' hear, and a hearty a-men.

My wife has a 7100FX. It's what she wanted to replace her old Schwinn
Worldsport (which now hangs upside-down from the rafters--I can't bear
to toss it, as it's a pre-X-mart Schwinn, with a real crank and all
that--and would you believe *tubulars*?!?). She has shoulder problems,
and wanted the upright seating position, and liked the suspension
seatpost, the cushy saddle, and the suspension forks. She also likes
the twist-grip shifters.

I've tried riding her bike--once for 20 miles, and once for 10 miles.
For me, the thing is a torture device. Last time, it made my knee so
sore that I haven't ridden for almost a week now. I feel like I'm
sitting over top of the bottom bracket, the seat grows fangs in five
minutes, and if I stand up to pedal, the thing pogos all over the place.
The seating position has me up catching the wind, and the bike weighs
a ton. The only nice things I can say about it are that the V-brakes
work really well and the typical comfort bike wheels and tires give a
nice ride on the local chipseal. I mean, it's better than anything you
can buy at X-Mart, but it is certainly not my cup of tea.

I like my 120psi 700c "wedgie" better. I can ride that bike a hundred
miles and hurt less than I do after 10 miles of riding my wife's bike.

--
Chris BeHanna
'03 Specialized Allez Elite 27
'04 Specialized Hardrock Pro Disc

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So far, 400 miles. The 72 was the best hybrid they had available
in the store. I was just getting back into cycling after about 2
yrs off. I had moved to a new city and it was a combination of
getting used to the way idiots drive around here and settiling in
with the new job/house/etc. I didn't want to get too fancy at
first, in case it didn't work out that I was going to get really
into riding again. Like I told the LBS guy, if it works out that
I get really into riding, I'll come back next spring and get the
better bike, either a top of the line hybrid or a road bike. So
far, I'm getting into it, riding to work as often as possible. I
ride about 4 days a week.


thanks for all the replies!


~Rob


"jj" wrote in message
...
: On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 11:03:49 GMT, "~R" wrote:
:
: I bought the best bike I could afford
: after 2 weeks of driving LBS owners crazy trying every bike
under
: $1000 in their stores. A Trek 7200 FX, and I'm real happy with
: it. BTW, I didn't see any Bianchi's winning any stages in the
: TDF, or did I miss something?
:
: How many miles have you put on it? Why a 72? The 75 is
significantly better
: and well under 1000.
:
: jj
:

Of course I didn't see any Trek 7200FX's. I went with the hybrid
because I thought it would be a little stronger with my 240 Lb
belly, not to mention if I had to duck off the road quickly to
avoid an idiot driver! Most of the shoulders out here are just
grass, dirt, or gravel. Not too many sidewalks.

And from what the nutty hardcore experts say, little details on a
bike make the difference in long races like TDF and whatnot.

~Rob


"Jeff Starr" wrote in message
news : On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 09:24:52 -0400, wrote:
:
: On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 11:03:49 GMT, "~R" wrote:
:
: I bought the best bike I could afford
: after 2 weeks of driving LBS owners crazy trying every bike
under
: $1000 in their stores. A Trek 7200 FX, and I'm real happy
with
: it. BTW, I didn't see any Bianchi's winning any stages in the
: TDF, or did I miss something?
:
: How many miles have you put on it? Why a 72? The 75 is
significantly better
: and well under 1000.
:
: jj
:
: He has the bike, he is happy with the bike, why make him second
guess
: his purchase? Or, for that matter, ask him to explain himself.
:
: For the OP, the reason you didn't see Bianchi's winning
stages, is
: that the winners were riding a different brand of bike. Barring
: mechanical problems, the TDF riders could win on any bike that
was
: used during the race. It's the rider[the engine], not the
equipment.
: And of course, you didn't see any Trek riders on 7200FX bikes.
:
: Winning races is no way to judge the quality of a bike, unless
your
: main use for that bike, is racing. And even then, proper fit
will be
: the riders number one concern.
:
:
: Life is Good!
: Jeff