Cycling accidents - British TV documentary

----- Original Message -----
From: "ed"
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 10:38 AM
Subject: Cycling accidents - British TV documentary



But what about accidents outside London around the rest of the
country? We have found these very hard to find. If you know of such
accidents involving heavy good vehicles, outside of London, please get
in touch.

Many thanks. We would like your help.

It may be that fatal cyclist vs HGV accidents predominate in London, and
female riders are more likely to be victims, though this article admits it's
not really known why
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...lifeandhealth1

I tried a brief search for accidents outside London and only turned up one
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/...st/7372906.stm

On Oct 7, 12:29 pm, "OG" wrote:
"Ian Jackson" wrote in message

...

In article
,
ed wrote:
We make serious documentaries for British TV - BBC and Channel 4
mostly, and are now working on programme about cycling accidents
involving heavy goods vehicles around the UK.

As a responsibile documentary maker, would you please consider the
secondary message you're sending ?

Obviously it is important to reduce risks. But, overall, cycling is
not a dangerous activity. If we concentrate too much on bad accidents
people will tend to think that cycling is very dangerous. This
reduces the number of people who want to cycle. Fewer people cycling
is bad for congestion and bad for the environment; conversely the more
cyclists there are the more pleasant (and safer) cycling becomes.

I don't know the planned structure of your programme, but it might be
worth you thinking about how to avoid making your viewers pessimistic
about the safety of cycling.

I think I can see your concerns, but one could just as easily as you to
consider the 'secondary message' that *you* are sending; which is "don't
give people information that will improve their safety because that only
makes them think it's dangerous"

There is particular risk for cyclists from left turning lorries, and as most
newbie cyclists have probably not received training or read Cyclecraft they
are likely to be unaware of the danger.

....and which of those two messages are sent depends on how the
documentary is put together, down to music, editing etc.

Regards,

bookieb

Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
True, this does seem to be mainly a London problem, but as you say
that could just be reporting issues.

Generating statistics from newspaper headlines
is not a good idea.

e.g.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/...nbutwhataboutk

Once media interest in a topic has begun, incidents have a much
higher chance of being reported, leading to an apparent "wave"
of incidents, where all that's happening is that reporting
of incidents has increased, not (necessarily)
incidents themselves.

BugBear

Andy Carey wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "ed"
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 10:38 AM
Subject: Cycling accidents - British TV documentary



But what about accidents outside London around the rest of the
country? We have found these very hard to find. If you know of such
accidents involving heavy good vehicles, outside of London, please get
in touch.

Many thanks. We would like your help.

It may be that fatal cyclist vs HGV accidents predominate in London, and
female riders are more likely to be victims, though this article admits it's
not really known why
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...lifeandhealth1

I tried a brief search for accidents outside London and only turned up one
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/...st/7372906.stm


A tandem ridden by two club cyclists was hit in Diss, but I can't find a web reference.
One of them was killed.

The coroner suggested that it was pretty much their own fault, since
they weren't using the local farcility.

BugBear

In message
"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote:

On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 04:06:34 -0700 (PDT), "
said in
:

It may be there are not that many large vehicle collisions outside of
major urban areas particularly as they tend to be 'anacdotally' left
turn collisions from stationary.

True, this does seem to be mainly a London problem, but as you say
that could just be reporting issues. I know there are high level
meetings about the issue of LGV collisions going on in London right
now.


There was a prominent example in Cambridge where a cyclist on the
nearside was crushed under the wheels of a lorry entering the
Addenbrookes Hospital site. The junction in question also featured
railings to prevent pedestrians from crossing at the junction but which
probably also contributed to the hazard for cyclists.

Mike
--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark
\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
" || _`\,_ |__\ \ | immunology lecturer, antibody engineer and
` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user"

On 7 Oct, 12:46, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
wrote:
It may be there are not that many large vehicle collisions outside of
major urban areas particularly as they tend to be 'anacdotally' left
turn collisions from stationary.

True, this does seem to be mainly a London problem, but as you say
that could just be reporting issues.

"The vast majority of these collisions occur in built-up areas, even
though 75% of HGV mileage is on non built-up roads. There is a
particular concentration in London; about one fifth of the fatal HGV/
Cyclist crashes in Great Britain occur in the capital. Almost one
third of the cyclists killed in London, die in a collision with a
HGV2. The problem is especially acute in inner London."

Source ROSPA http://www.rospa.com/roadsafety/advi...sheet_0206.pdf

The DOT factsheet for 2007 shows there were 32 cyclist fatalities due
to HGV collisions in 2007. Of the 136 total cyclist fatalities 97
were in built-up areas, 39 elsewhere.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/162259/162469/...bfactsheet.pdf

On Oct 7, 10:38*am, ed wrote:
We make serious documentaries for British TV - BBC and Channel 4
mostly, and are now working on programme about cycling accidents
involving heavy goods vehicles around the UK.

There have been several accidents, and deaths, in London so far this
year which have been comvered, to some extent, by the press.

But what about accidents outside London around the rest of the
country? *We have found these very hard to find. *If you know of such
accidents involving heavy good vehicles, outside of London, please get
in touch.

Many thanks. *We would like your help.

Surely there are other more accurate ways of getting such data than
requesting on an internet forum?

Why not try a freedom of info request to the Department of Transport?

On Oct 7, 1:34*pm, Mike Clark wrote:


There was a prominent example in Cambridge where a cyclist on the
nearside was crushed under the wheels of a lorry entering the
Addenbrookes Hospital site. The junction in question also featured
railings to prevent pedestrians from crossing at the junction but which
probably also contributed to the hazard for cyclists.

Mike

Yep - I couldn't find an online link to reports of that one, but
remember it well - being someone who cycles to work there..
Also two others in the vicinity of Cambridge.

Histon (another ex Addenbrookes worker)

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/cn_n....asp?id=304804

And a student from Girton

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/cn_n....asp?id=290074

So certainly not just a London problem.

Jen

On 07 Oct 2008 12:06:55 +0100 (BST), Ian Jackson
wrote:

In article ,
ed wrote:
We make serious documentaries for British TV - BBC and Channel 4
mostly, and are now working on programme about cycling accidents
involving heavy goods vehicles around the UK.

As a responsibile documentary maker, would you please consider the
secondary message you're sending ?

Obviously it is important to reduce risks. But, overall, cycling is
not a dangerous activity.

I disagree - it is when compared to walking.

eg

Latest DfT figures comparing cyclist and pedestrians Killed or
Seriously Injured

Killed and seriously injured casualties Rate per 100 million
Pedal cycle
Passenger Kilometers: 53
Passenger Journeys: 200
Passenger Hours: 640

Pedestrians
Passenger Kilometers: 37
Passenger Journeys: 38
Passenger Hours: 160

In article ,
bookieb wrote:
On Oct 7, 12:29 pm, "OG" wrote:
"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
I think I can see your concerns, but one could just as easily as you to
consider the 'secondary message' that *you* are sending; which is "don't
give people information that will improve their safety because that only
makes them think it's dangerous"
....
...and which of those two messages are sent depends on how the
documentary is put together, down to music, editing etc.

Exactly. I'm just asking that the programme makers consider the
discouragement angle.

--
Ian Jackson personal email:
These opinions are my own. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ijackson/
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