Rear-View Mirrors

"Tom Keats" wrote in message
...

Any other sage advice for a mirror neophyte?

Learn to not use one before you do. And never
trust a mirror to give you the full picture.

If by that you mean to always turn our head to check before making a lane
change, then I agree. However, a mirror can give you a much better state of
situational awareness if properly used. However, where humans are concerned
there is always the chance for error.

"landotter" wrote in message news:gm1pt7
Don't you have ears? Use 'em. Experienced cyclists can tell what cars are
doing behind them by listening.


Nonsense. I have been in plenty of situations where I could not even hear a
car coming up behind me.

It's amazing what crap people write in the internet when they don't have to
be accountable for any of it.

"Tom Keats" wrote in message
...
In article ,
blanny writes:
(Tom Keats) wrote in
:

In article ,
writes:

Any other sage advice for a mirror neophyte?

Learn to not use one before you do. And never
trust a mirror to give you the full picture.


cheers,
Tom


Do you, would you, drive a car without mirrors? I'd argue that car
mirrors
are less important than bike mirrors. Most likely, no cars are going to
pass you. On a bike, "every" car from behind is going to pass you. I
want
to know, just what level of effort the car behind me is doing to account
for me.

For someone who didn't learn how to use one, no wonder you didn't learn
to
trust the device. If the helmet-mounted mirror is mounted correctly,
then
I have a full wide-screen view of the road behind me. Essentially, a
much
wider field of view than car mirrors. The trick .. is to put that mirror
as close to your eye as possible.

I don't need some ~thing~ occluding my forward field of vision.

I don't drive a car, but of the drivers I know, many
shoulder check despite having rv and wing mirrors
at their avail.

Shoulder checking both to the left and right without
swerving is an easily-enough acquired bicycle riding
basic skill (with practice.) Once one has the skill,
one doesn't really need to rely upon redundant
accoutrements along with their limitations, in order
to lazily avoid a little initial effort and practice.
And it seems to me, the more skills a rider acquires,
the more empowered he or she becomes.

Looking at the thing itself instead of its reflection
gives the advantage of depth perception, and avoids
certain optical effects impinged by mirrors, such as
image darkening, washing-out of certain colours, and
distorted image sizes ("objects in mirror are closer
than they appear.")

Wow....spew total nonsense. A simple glance at a mirror is enough to know
all you need for the given situation. It not as though you need to read a
PhD disseration in a mirror.

Shoulder checking also enables a rider to make
eye-contact communication with fellow road/street
users behind, and signals that the shoulder checking
rider is about to change his vector -- perhaps for
a lane change, perhaps for a turn. /That's/ what
looking rearward is for, not for seeing if some
intangible threat is there, like the Boogie Man
hiding under one's bed.

Why would someone using a mirror not shoulder check? Do you assume that
because the mirror is there that the rider isn't going to move his/her head
to check what's in the spot right next to him/her?


I confess to having a handlebar mirror on my main bike.
It's convenient for quick, half-the-story glances.
Sometimes it reassures me that the top of my cargo trailer
is still on, and my laundry isn't flying out all over the
street, while I still keep an eye on what's up ahead.

So you're using a mirror, then. It enhances your situational awareness, but
you don't depend on it totally. You have a full range of senses and your
vision is a very powerful one. If you eyes are open then they can collection
information over a continuum of different possible positions. It's
powerful, not otherwise.

Non-cycling drivers see my mirror (along with my lights)
and feel reassured that I'm some sort of safe rider.

My mirror is sort of like an amulet, like a rabbit's
foot. I don't really believe in magic, but what the heck.
Maybe I should kick the thing off. It'll eventually get
bashed off anyway, like all the others.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Roger Zoul wrote:
:: Jobst,
::
:: Man....what a tool you are. You really should just stay out of such
:: threads.

Glad to see you posting again. I agree about Jobst. Instead of saying
something like: "It's a question of personal preference to use a mirror."
He goes on and on about how it is some kind of moral deficiency if a person
likes a mirror!
Sheesh!

Pat in TX

landotter wrote:
::
:: Don't you have ears? Use 'em. Experienced cyclists can tell what
:: cars are doing behind them by listening.

I guess you have never ridden your bike on a windy day.

Pat in TX

wrote:
Stop inventing scenarios to support your claim. If exhaust noise
rises above tire noise, it is an additional signal for the bicyclist,
but stop trying to driver their vehicle and let them pass. If you
don't "take the lane" or ride demonstrably too far into the lane, they
will pass without danger to you.

Anybody know of any objective studies on this subject? I bought my
mirror after hearing about the blind/hybrid problem...

You mean a study on mirror use? Yes, I've been observing the
phenomenon for years. To me mirror folks appear paranoid, because when
I say hello as I catch up and pass, they are shocked and react as
though they had just been hit by one of those vehicles for which they
claim to look constantly... but apparently not.

Jobst Brandt

I see the 'great' Jobst won't even answer me after calling him on
survival tactics. Apparently Jobst considers himself such an expert he
can tell people to ride in a manner to get a Darwin award.
There is right, and there is 'dead right', or logical decision to ride
in survival mode.
Jobst, you are *NOT* the absolute authority just because you have been
lucky.
Bill Baka

PatTX wrote:
Roger Zoul wrote:
:: Jobst,
::
:: Man....what a tool you are. You really should just stay out of such
:: threads.

Glad to see you posting again. I agree about Jobst. Instead of saying
something like: "It's a question of personal preference to use a mirror."
He goes on and on about how it is some kind of moral deficiency if a person
likes a mirror!
Sheesh!

Pat in TX


I may be "Morally deficient" in his eyes but I do know how to survive.
Bill Baka

Roger Zoul wrote:
"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
"blanny" wrote:
[...]
Facing forward, with the approaching sound of a car, can you tell if the
car is moving a couple feet to the left? Can you tell if the car is
hugging the right, oblivous to the biker?

With a handlebar mounted mirror the answer is yes. With a helmet mounted
mirror, no.

Nonsense (assuming a helmet mounted mirror also includes those that are
mounted on eye-glasses).


Does not work for many people.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
LOCAL CACTUS EATS CYCLIST - datakoll

In article ,
"Roger Zoul" writes:

Shoulder checking both to the left and right without
swerving is an easily-enough acquired bicycle riding
basic skill (with practice.) Once one has the skill,
one doesn't really need to rely upon redundant
accoutrements along with their limitations, in order
to lazily avoid a little initial effort and practice.
And it seems to me, the more skills a rider acquires,
the more empowered he or she becomes.

Looking at the thing itself instead of its reflection
gives the advantage of depth perception, and avoids
certain optical effects impinged by mirrors, such as
image darkening, washing-out of certain colours, and
distorted image sizes ("objects in mirror are closer
than they appear.")

Wow....spew total nonsense. A simple glance at a mirror is enough to know
all you need for the given situation. It not as though you need to read a
PhD disseration in a mirror.

If one is going to use use a mirror, one might as
well be aware of its limitations -- what to expect,
and what not to expect of it.

Shoulder checking also enables a rider to make
eye-contact communication with fellow road/street
users behind, and signals that the shoulder checking
rider is about to change his vector -- perhaps for
a lane change, perhaps for a turn. /That's/ what
looking rearward is for, not for seeing if some
intangible threat is there, like the Boogie Man
hiding under one's bed.

Why would someone using a mirror not shoulder check? Do you assume that
because the mirror is there that the rider isn't going to move his/her head
to check what's in the spot right next to him/her?

In that case, the mirror is a redundant accessory.
If the rider has already looked directly, why would
he then use the mirror?

I confess to having a handlebar mirror on my main bike.
It's convenient for quick, half-the-story glances.
Sometimes it reassures me that the top of my cargo trailer
is still on, and my laundry isn't flying out all over the
street, while I still keep an eye on what's up ahead.

So you're using a mirror, then. It enhances your situational awareness, but
you don't depend on it totally.

Exactly!

You have a full range of senses and your
vision is a very powerful one. If you eyes are open then they can collection
information over a continuum of different possible positions. It's
powerful, not otherwise.

There have been occasions where other riders have
passed me on my right, threading the needle between
me and a line of parked cars, through the door zone.
I guess they want to show off how fast they are, but
they're scared to venture deeper into where the cars go.
I confess to being caught by surprise a few times by
this stupid maneouver. I'm wise to it now. It usually
happens when the fair-weather riders come out of the
woodwork.

My handlebar mirror gives no indication of this when
it's incipient. A shoulder-check to the ~right~, would.
One has to be alert to the presence of upcoming other riders,
as well as cars. Especially when riders pull boneheaded
stunts such as I described above. In those situations,
I maintain "a simple glance at a mirror is enough to know
all you need for the given situation" just doesn't cut
the mustard.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

In article ,
writes:

You like your helmet-mounted mirror right up close to your eye?
Wait until age renders you far-sighted and you need reading
glasses.

I'm already there, for many years now. The mirror is visible
through the upper portion of the glasses lens. It's no problem at
all.

As for myself, I don't need bifocals. Just reading glasses
for close-up stuff.

Of course. Mirror distance has no effect, although distance to the
object does, but traffic is sufficiently far away and has motion.

As an experiment, I tried holding something roughly the size &
shape of a helmet mounted mirror directly in front of my left
eye -- viz: a fruit juice bottle cap. While I could see fairly
well around it with both eyes open, I noted it took just a little
more physical effort to view forward, than without it.

Having this thing right in front of my eye was also bothersome,
and it felt rather constricting. If I had to deal with anything
as annoying as that for an extended period of time, I think I'd
feel compelled to rip it off and dispose of it, and then I'd
feel relievedly free.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca