|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#21
|
|||
|
|||
Irresponsible cyclists free to get drivers to clear up afterthem
Peter Parry wrote, On 21/09/2009 10:43: On Sun, 20 Sep 2009 22:06:48 +0100, "Graham Harrison" wrote: Anyone know how it works in Germany and Holland (quoted as already having legislation along these lines). It puts the cost of insurance up a lot. A colleague has had two claims made against him in Holland in three years despite never having had an accident with a cyclist, never mind being to blame for one. Apparently when you need a new bike or the Lycra needs a wash you stand on the side of the road and make a note of time, a car number (any car will do) , description of the driver and the car. Go home and submit a claim for a non-existent accident and get a payout from the drivers insurer. "Accident? What accident?" apparently is not considered to be an adequate defence. And there's a bloke works down the chip shop swears he's Elvis. LN -- Never knowingly understood |
Ads |
#22
|
|||
|
|||
Irresponsible cyclists free to get drivers to clear up after them
On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 02:12:21 -0700 (PDT), BrianW
wrote: It would help if you understood the difference between criminal law and civil law, Mr Bollen. Mind you, it would help if you understood the difference between arse and elbow ... No wonder he has a lousy shoe-shine. I told him to use plenty of "Elbow grease". Derek |
#23
|
|||
|
|||
Irresponsible cyclists free to get drivers to clear up after them
Derek Geldard wrote:
On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 02:12:21 -0700 (PDT), BrianW wrote: It would help if you understood the difference between criminal law and civil law, Mr Bollen. Mind you, it would help if you understood the difference between arse and elbow ... No wonder he has a lousy shoe-shine. I told him to use plenty of "Elbow grease". Tescos don't stock it. |
#24
|
|||
|
|||
Irresponsible cyclists free to get drivers to clear up after them
"Col Colt" wrote:
"Doug" wrote in message ... On 21 Sep, 00:00, Judith M Smith wrote: On Sun, 20 Sep 2009 20:24:00 +0100, "Graculus" Long overdue but unlikely to become law. Don't forget that the lawmakers themselves are virtually all drivers too and that is why vulnerable road victims are so often blamed for their own deaths and injuries, i.e. for getting in the way of fast moving vehicles on public roads. Strange how this law won't apply to pedestrians hit by cyclists. In that encounter the pedestrian is the vulnerable road user but the sick psychopathic **** of a cyclist can always walk away without any punishment. But then you don't give a **** about pedestrians, do you Duggie? The only thing Dugh cares about is not having a car. Other people having cars makes him feel bad so he spends his entire life bitching at them. |
#25
|
|||
|
|||
Irresponsible cyclists free to get drivers to clear up after them
On 21 Sep, 12:58, Huge wrote:
On 2009-09-21, Paul Luton wrote: In a different place I saw a comment to the effect " you have to drive carefully in Amsterdam - there are cyclists all over the place and you don't want to hit a cyclist". Many drivers do watch out for vulnerable road users but a significant minority will only do so if threatened with a large kick in the wallet. Many people claim to be afraid to cycle on UK streets; fewer aggressive drivers can only help to change that perception. Quite so, but surely even you think that discarding the fundamental precepts of British justice is a little OTT? It is obvious to anyone with a few functioning neurons that the system will be heavily gamed to the advantage of cyclists. Even as a cyclist who got knocked off his bike earlier in the year and is currently going through the rigmarole of suing the driver, I have to agree with you. The provisions of the English law of negligence are (I hope) adequate for dealing with the case of motorists negligently colliding with cyclists. |
#26
|
|||
|
|||
Irresponsible cyclists free to get drivers to clear up afterthem
Paul Luton wrote:
BrianW wrote: On 20 Sep, 22:50, JNugent wrote: Adam Lea wrote: Graculus wrote: It seems that our Doug has friends in the government, considering that some are thinking along the lines that any cyclist or pedestrian involved in any kind of incident with a car is completely absolved of all blame, and the driver (with his compulsory insurance) can pick up the tab. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6841326.ece It isn't like that at all, the principle is that the driver of the more powerful vehicle would have to prove that they weren't at fault in an accident ...reversing the burden of proof, which has traditionally been that an accused person is innocent *unless* proven guilty (of an offence) or at fault (in the case of a civil wrong). So far as I can gather, it is only proposed to apply to civil law claims. I don't think it is a fair proposal, however, and I certainly can't see how it would encourage more people to cycle. In a different place I saw a comment to the effect " you have to drive carefully in Amsterdam - there are cyclists all over the place and you don't want to hit a cyclist". Many drivers do watch out for vulnerable road users but a significant minority will only do so if threatened with a large kick in the wallet. Many people claim to be afraid to cycle on UK streets; fewer aggressive drivers can only help to change that perception. Having followed this issue for some time (and I've a 1968? book called 'Road Accidents: Prevent or Punish, and a similarly dated book about Traffic Law), the big issue is that it makes drivers more careful.. Astute readers may be aware that I was hit from behind by a Taxi. The driver said in statement to Police (slightly paraphrased) " I hooted and he didn't get out of my way so I hit him". The police refused to take action as I wasn't in the cycle lane (which was closed the following day..) Remember it is 'presumed' liability, so those cases of idiot cyclists who cause crashes, all you need is an independant witness, and the motorist can claim from cyclist. In the majority of cases where drivers ignore HC and come into contact with a cyclist (who is in Law allowed his wobble space) the cyclist can claim from the motor vehicle driver. Of course, currently, for a civil claim, be it against a motorist, or a cyclist, what you need is 'on balance of probability' rather than 'beyond resonable doubt' required for a police prosecution. There have even been cases where a driver was convicted in the court, but subsequently won a claim for damages from the other party... (In 1950s) Jim Chisholm |
#27
|
|||
|
|||
Irresponsible cyclists free to get drivers to clear up after them
On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 12:00:59 +0100, "Jeremy Parker"
wrote: "Graculus" wrote in message ... It seems that our Doug has friends in the government, considering that some are thinking along the lines that any cyclist or pedestrian involved in any kind of incident with a car is completely absolved of all blame, and the driver (with his compulsory insurance) can pick up the tab. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6841326.ece Mind you, this is nothing new for this government, Indeed it isn't new. It has been the law since 1933 for much of the medical expenses. In 1933 there was no National Health Service, and when the NHS first came in it tended to be lax about getting people to pay for anything. With more concern about budgets that has changed, and now you might find your hospital and the NHS pursuing you and your insurance company even for an accident in which you were completely non-blameworthy. Charging for treatment following road traffic-related injuries is by no means a recent practice. My father got a bill from the local hospital when he was knocked off his bike by a truck c. 1960. I remember it well, he was not pleased (less pleased by the bill than by getting knocked off IIRC). I think the truck driver's insurance coughed up eventually though. -- Pete |
#28
|
|||
|
|||
Irresponsible cyclists free to get drivers to clear up after them
On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 12:07:02 +0100, lardyninja
wrote: And there's a bloke works down the chip shop swears he's Elvis. It's the one in the pub who thinks that. |
#29
|
|||
|
|||
Irresponsible cyclists free to get drivers to clear up after them
"Peter Parry" wrote in message ... On Sun, 20 Sep 2009 22:06:48 +0100, "Graham Harrison" wrote: Anyone know how it works in Germany and Holland (quoted as already having legislation along these lines). It puts the cost of insurance up a lot. A colleague has had two claims made against him in Holland in three years despite never having had an accident with a cyclist, never mind being to blame for one. Apparently when you need a new bike or the Lycra needs a wash you stand on the side of the road and make a note of time, a car number (any car will do) , description of the driver and the car. Go home and submit a claim for a non-existent accident and get a payout from the drivers insurer. "Accident? What accident?" apparently is not considered to be an adequate defence. I think it would only be fair to make sure it was some cock in an Audi or 4x4 (on their mobile) who almost ran you off the road, but you assisted them to achieve that, writing of the bike the faded lycra and suffering pseudo-injury in the process... |
#30
|
|||
|
|||
Irresponsible cyclists free to get drivers to clear up after them
"Huge" wrote in message ... On 2009-09-21, Paul Luton wrote: Quite so, but surely even you think that discarding the fundamental precepts of British justice is a little OTT? It is obvious to anyone with a few functioning neurons that the system will be heavily gamed to the advantage of cyclists. Ahh, bliss... |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Why is it OK to ram cyclists but not other drivers? | Doug[_3_] | UK | 346 | November 5th 08 09:18 AM |
Why is it OK to ram cyclists but not other drivers? | BrianW[_2_] | UK | 0 | October 3rd 08 08:49 PM |
Clear Channel hosts suggest swerving autos into cyclists. | Bartow W. Riggs | General | 3 | March 4th 05 12:09 AM |
Clear Channel Radio DJs threatening cyclists, again! | Corvus Corvax | Social Issues | 30 | October 3rd 03 01:12 PM |
Clear Channel Radio DJs threatening cyclists, again! A reply | Burr | Social Issues | 1 | September 10th 03 01:54 AM |