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#11
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Car deliberately used as a weapon.
On Apr 3, 6:36*am, Doug wrote:
On Apr 3, 1:49*am, "R. Mark Clayton" wrote: "BrianW" wrote in message ... On Apr 2, 6:57 am, Doug ranted: Ramming carried to extremes? As far as cyclists are concerned there are loads of lethal weapons out there being wielded badly on our roads and it only takes one at the wrong time in the wrong place. "A woman who admitted killing a man by running over him in a County Durham car park has been jailed for five years. Shaun Dalby, 28, died when he was hit by a Fiat Punto in the Co-op car park in Coxhoe in February 2010. Naomi Myers, 22, was originally charged with murder, but a guilty plea to manslaughter was accepted at Newcastle Crown Court in February. :I thought that motorists never get charged with murder or : manslaughter, Doug? *Oh dear, yet another GollumTheory bites the dust. Well running over a pedestrian on a zebra crossing used to result in a manslaughter charge, but this law may have been superseded. OTOH motorists have been convicted of murder, manslaughter and GBH [with intent] for driving into pedestrians on the pavement, depending on whether the jury considered they intended to harm anyone. Most of the time motorists are charged with careless or dangerous driving, when there is not intent, but instead they could be charged with involuntary manslaughter which carries a much longer maximum sentence. Maximum sentence under death by dangerous driving is 14 years. How often do people convicted of involuntary manslaughter get a sentence longer than that, Doug? |
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#12
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Car deliberately used as a weapon.
Doug wrote:
Ramming carried to extremes? As far as cyclists are concerned there are loads of lethal weapons out there being wielded badly That's good. Weapons wielded well would be more dangerous. BugBear |
#13
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Car deliberately used as a weapon.
On Apr 3, 11:38*pm, Phil W Lee wrote:
BrianW considered Sun, 3 Apr 2011 00:31:59 -0700 (PDT) the perfect time to write: On Apr 3, 6:36*am, Doug wrote: On Apr 3, 1:49*am, "R. Mark Clayton" wrote: "BrianW" wrote in message .... On Apr 2, 6:57 am, Doug ranted: Ramming carried to extremes? As far as cyclists are concerned there are loads of lethal weapons out there being wielded badly on our roads and it only takes one at the wrong time in the wrong place. "A woman who admitted killing a man by running over him in a County Durham car park has been jailed for five years. Shaun Dalby, 28, died when he was hit by a Fiat Punto in the Co-op car park in Coxhoe in February 2010. Naomi Myers, 22, was originally charged with murder, but a guilty plea to manslaughter was accepted at Newcastle Crown Court in February. :I thought that motorists never get charged with murder or : manslaughter, Doug? *Oh dear, yet another GollumTheory bites the dust. Well running over a pedestrian on a zebra crossing used to result in a manslaughter charge, but this law may have been superseded. OTOH motorists have been convicted of murder, manslaughter and GBH [with intent] for driving into pedestrians on the pavement, depending on whether the jury considered they intended to harm anyone. Most of the time motorists are charged with careless or dangerous driving, when there is not intent, but instead they could be charged with involuntary manslaughter which carries a much longer maximum sentence. Maximum sentence under death by dangerous driving is 14 years. *How often do people convicted of involuntary manslaughter get a sentence longer than that, Doug? AFAIK, there has only ever been a single case of a driver getting even HALF of that supposed maximum, and that was a case which included just about every possible aggravating factor and absolutely no mitigating ones. Are you thinking about that case in Nottinghamshire from a few years ago, where a drunk driver collided with a car, killing the occupants of that car and his own passengers? And then tried to blame one of his dead passengers? IIRC, the maximum sentence at the time was 10 years - judge tried to give him longer by using consecutive sentences, but was overruled by the Court of Appeal. So the real maximum is 7 years. I have tried to find some up-to-date statistics, but can't find anything relating to the period since the maximum was increased from 10 to 14 years. However, whilst you may be right that the courts are over-lenient (as I say, I can't find the stats), a quick Google search reveals the following cases where a driver got more than 7 years: http://content.met.police.uk/News/De.../1257246745756 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7771299.stm http://www.5ive-o.org/forum/archive/...p/t-15605.html http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereven...ie_ is_jailed |
#14
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Car deliberately used as a weapon.
On Apr 3, 8:31*am, BrianW wrote:
On Apr 3, 6:36*am, Doug wrote: On Apr 3, 1:49*am, "R. Mark Clayton" wrote: "BrianW" wrote in message .... On Apr 2, 6:57 am, Doug ranted: Ramming carried to extremes? As far as cyclists are concerned there are loads of lethal weapons out there being wielded badly on our roads and it only takes one at the wrong time in the wrong place. "A woman who admitted killing a man by running over him in a County Durham car park has been jailed for five years. Shaun Dalby, 28, died when he was hit by a Fiat Punto in the Co-op car park in Coxhoe in February 2010. Naomi Myers, 22, was originally charged with murder, but a guilty plea to manslaughter was accepted at Newcastle Crown Court in February. :I thought that motorists never get charged with murder or : manslaughter, Doug? *Oh dear, yet another GollumTheory bites the dust. Well running over a pedestrian on a zebra crossing used to result in a manslaughter charge, but this law may have been superseded. OTOH motorists have been convicted of murder, manslaughter and GBH [with intent] for driving into pedestrians on the pavement, depending on whether the jury considered they intended to harm anyone. Most of the time motorists are charged with careless or dangerous driving, when there is not intent, but instead they could be charged with involuntary manslaughter which carries a much longer maximum sentence. Maximum sentence under death by dangerous driving is 14 years. *How often do people convicted of involuntary manslaughter get a sentence longer than that, Doug? You are missing the point. Why dream up an alternative charge for motorists when a suitable one already exists? Also the seriousness of a charge might be judged by the length of its maximum sentence. -- . UK Radical Campaigns.(Recently updated). http://www.zing.icom43.net A driving licence is a licence to kill. |
#15
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Car deliberately used as a weapon.
On Apr 5, 6:44*am, Doug wrote:
On Apr 3, 8:31*am, BrianW wrote: On Apr 3, 6:36*am, Doug wrote: On Apr 3, 1:49*am, "R. Mark Clayton" wrote: "BrianW" wrote in message .... On Apr 2, 6:57 am, Doug ranted: Ramming carried to extremes? As far as cyclists are concerned there are loads of lethal weapons out there being wielded badly on our roads and it only takes one at the wrong time in the wrong place. "A woman who admitted killing a man by running over him in a County Durham car park has been jailed for five years. Shaun Dalby, 28, died when he was hit by a Fiat Punto in the Co-op car park in Coxhoe in February 2010. Naomi Myers, 22, was originally charged with murder, but a guilty plea to manslaughter was accepted at Newcastle Crown Court in February.. :I thought that motorists never get charged with murder or : manslaughter, Doug? *Oh dear, yet another GollumTheory bites the dust. Well running over a pedestrian on a zebra crossing used to result in a manslaughter charge, but this law may have been superseded. OTOH motorists have been convicted of murder, manslaughter and GBH [with intent] for driving into pedestrians on the pavement, depending on whether the jury considered they intended to harm anyone. Most of the time motorists are charged with careless or dangerous driving, when there is not intent, but instead they could be charged with involuntary manslaughter which carries a much longer maximum sentence. Maximum sentence under death by dangerous driving is 14 years. *How often do people convicted of involuntary manslaughter get a sentence longer than that, Doug? You are missing the point. Why dream up an alternative charge for motorists when a suitable one already exists? Also the seriousness of a charge might be judged by the length of its maximum sentence. No, you are missing the point, Gollum. Securing a conviction under a death by dangerous driving charge is easier than securing one under a manslaughter charge. If you abolish the former, more killer drivers will walk free. You've been told this a million times. Makes me wonder whether that is really what you want, so you can whine about it. |
#16
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Car deliberately used as a weapon.
Doug wrote:
On Apr 3, 8:31 am, BrianW wrote: Maximum sentence under death by dangerous driving is 14 years. How often do people convicted of involuntary manslaughter get a sentence longer than that, Doug? You are missing the point. Why dream up an alternative charge for motorists when a suitable one already exists? So, all speed limits should be abolished, should they? After all, there's all manner of other general charges that could be brought if it was actually dangerous. |
#17
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Car deliberately used as a weapon.
On Apr 5, 9:03*am, "Norman Wells" wrote:
Doug wrote: On Apr 3, 8:31 am, BrianW wrote: Maximum sentence under death by dangerous driving is 14 years. How often do people convicted of involuntary manslaughter get a sentence longer than that, Doug? You are missing the point. Why dream up an alternative charge for motorists when a suitable one already exists? So, all speed limits should be abolished, should they? *After all, there's all manner of other general charges that could be brought if it was actually dangerous. Speed limits are specific to using a road, killing or injuring people with a dangerous weapon isn't. The problem here is that a car is not generally perceived as a weapon but it should be. -- . UK Radical Campaigns.(Recently updated). http://www.zing.icom43.net A driving licence is a licence to kill. |
#18
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Car deliberately used as a weapon.
Doug gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying: The problem here is that a car is not generally perceived as a weapon Nor is a hammer. Nor is a screwdriver. Nor is a kitchen knife. Nor is a housebrick. Nor is a piece of wood. but it should be. Should they be, too? |
#19
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Car deliberately used as a weapon.
Doug wrote:
On Apr 5, 9:03 am, "Norman Wells" wrote: Doug wrote: On Apr 3, 8:31 am, BrianW wrote: Maximum sentence under death by dangerous driving is 14 years. How often do people convicted of involuntary manslaughter get a sentence longer than that, Doug? You are missing the point. Why dream up an alternative charge for motorists when a suitable one already exists? So, all speed limits should be abolished, should they? After all, there's all manner of other general charges that could be brought if it was actually dangerous. Speed limits are specific to using a road No they're not, you see. As I think you very well know, speed limits do not apply to cyclists. They apply specifically to motorists. So, we have here a dreamt up "alternative charged for motorists when a suitable one already exists", which is just what you were criticising. So, why shouldn't all speed limits be abolished? |
#20
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Car deliberately used as a weapon.
On 06/04/2011 06:55, Doug wrote:
On Apr 5, 9:03 am, "Norman wrote: Doug wrote: On Apr 3, 8:31 am, wrote: Maximum sentence under death by dangerous driving is 14 years. How often do people convicted of involuntary manslaughter get a sentence longer than that, Doug? You are missing the point. Why dream up an alternative charge for motorists when a suitable one already exists? So, all speed limits should be abolished, should they? After all, there's all manner of other general charges that could be brought if it was actually dangerous. Speed limits are specific to using a road,... There is a speed limit on my local river, there are speed limits all over the rail network and, below flight level 100, there is one on aircraft too. Colin Bignell |
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