Car deliberately used as a weapon.

On Apr 3, 6:36*am, Doug wrote:
On Apr 3, 1:49*am, "R. Mark Clayton"
wrote:



"BrianW" wrote in message

...
On Apr 2, 6:57 am, Doug ranted:

Ramming carried to extremes? As far as cyclists are concerned there
are loads of lethal weapons out there being wielded badly on our roads
and it only takes one at the wrong time in the wrong place.

"A woman who admitted killing a man by running over him in a County
Durham car park has been jailed for five years.

Shaun Dalby, 28, died when he was hit by a Fiat Punto in the Co-op car
park in Coxhoe in February 2010.

Naomi Myers, 22, was originally charged with murder, but a guilty plea
to manslaughter was accepted at Newcastle Crown Court in February.

:I thought that motorists never get charged with murder or
: manslaughter, Doug? *Oh dear, yet another GollumTheory bites the dust.

Well running over a pedestrian on a zebra crossing used to result in a
manslaughter charge, but this law may have been superseded.

OTOH motorists have been convicted of murder, manslaughter and GBH [with
intent] for driving into pedestrians on the pavement, depending on whether
the jury considered they intended to harm anyone.

Most of the time motorists are charged with careless or dangerous
driving, when there is not intent, but instead they could be charged
with involuntary manslaughter which carries a much longer maximum
sentence.

Maximum sentence under death by dangerous driving is 14 years. How
often do people convicted of involuntary manslaughter get a sentence
longer than that, Doug?

Doug wrote:
Ramming carried to extremes? As far as cyclists are concerned there
are loads of lethal weapons out there being wielded badly

That's good. Weapons wielded well would be more dangerous.

BugBear

On Apr 3, 11:38*pm, Phil W Lee wrote:
BrianW considered Sun, 3 Apr 2011
00:31:59 -0700 (PDT) the perfect time to write:





On Apr 3, 6:36*am, Doug wrote:
On Apr 3, 1:49*am, "R. Mark Clayton"
wrote:

"BrianW" wrote in message

....
On Apr 2, 6:57 am, Doug ranted:

Ramming carried to extremes? As far as cyclists are concerned there
are loads of lethal weapons out there being wielded badly on our roads
and it only takes one at the wrong time in the wrong place.

"A woman who admitted killing a man by running over him in a County
Durham car park has been jailed for five years.

Shaun Dalby, 28, died when he was hit by a Fiat Punto in the Co-op car
park in Coxhoe in February 2010.

Naomi Myers, 22, was originally charged with murder, but a guilty plea
to manslaughter was accepted at Newcastle Crown Court in February.

:I thought that motorists never get charged with murder or
: manslaughter, Doug? *Oh dear, yet another GollumTheory bites the dust.

Well running over a pedestrian on a zebra crossing used to result in a
manslaughter charge, but this law may have been superseded.

OTOH motorists have been convicted of murder, manslaughter and GBH [with
intent] for driving into pedestrians on the pavement, depending on whether
the jury considered they intended to harm anyone.

Most of the time motorists are charged with careless or dangerous
driving, when there is not intent, but instead they could be charged
with involuntary manslaughter which carries a much longer maximum
sentence.

Maximum sentence under death by dangerous driving is 14 years. *How
often do people convicted of involuntary manslaughter get a sentence
longer than that, Doug?

AFAIK, there has only ever been a single case of a driver getting even
HALF of that supposed maximum, and that was a case which included just
about every possible aggravating factor and absolutely no mitigating
ones.

Are you thinking about that case in Nottinghamshire from a few years
ago, where a drunk driver collided with a car, killing the occupants
of that car and his own passengers? And then tried to blame one of
his dead passengers? IIRC, the maximum sentence at the time was 10
years - judge tried to give him longer by using consecutive sentences,
but was overruled by the Court of Appeal.

So the real maximum is 7 years.

I have tried to find some up-to-date statistics, but can't find
anything relating to the period since the maximum was increased from
10 to 14 years.

However, whilst you may be right that the courts are over-lenient (as
I say, I can't find the stats), a quick Google search reveals the
following cases where a driver got more than 7 years:

http://content.met.police.uk/News/De.../1257246745756

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7771299.stm

http://www.5ive-o.org/forum/archive/...p/t-15605.html

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereven...ie_ is_jailed

On Apr 3, 8:31*am, BrianW wrote:
On Apr 3, 6:36*am, Doug wrote:



On Apr 3, 1:49*am, "R. Mark Clayton"
wrote:

"BrianW" wrote in message

....
On Apr 2, 6:57 am, Doug ranted:

Ramming carried to extremes? As far as cyclists are concerned there
are loads of lethal weapons out there being wielded badly on our roads
and it only takes one at the wrong time in the wrong place.

"A woman who admitted killing a man by running over him in a County
Durham car park has been jailed for five years.

Shaun Dalby, 28, died when he was hit by a Fiat Punto in the Co-op car
park in Coxhoe in February 2010.

Naomi Myers, 22, was originally charged with murder, but a guilty plea
to manslaughter was accepted at Newcastle Crown Court in February.

:I thought that motorists never get charged with murder or
: manslaughter, Doug? *Oh dear, yet another GollumTheory bites the dust.

Well running over a pedestrian on a zebra crossing used to result in a
manslaughter charge, but this law may have been superseded.

OTOH motorists have been convicted of murder, manslaughter and GBH [with
intent] for driving into pedestrians on the pavement, depending on whether
the jury considered they intended to harm anyone.

Most of the time motorists are charged with careless or dangerous
driving, when there is not intent, but instead they could be charged
with involuntary manslaughter which carries a much longer maximum
sentence.

Maximum sentence under death by dangerous driving is 14 years. *How
often do people convicted of involuntary manslaughter get a sentence
longer than that, Doug?

You are missing the point. Why dream up an alternative charge for
motorists when a suitable one already exists? Also the seriousness of
a charge might be judged by the length of its maximum sentence.

-- .
UK Radical Campaigns.(Recently updated).
http://www.zing.icom43.net
A driving licence is a licence to kill.

On Apr 5, 6:44*am, Doug wrote:
On Apr 3, 8:31*am, BrianW wrote:



On Apr 3, 6:36*am, Doug wrote:

On Apr 3, 1:49*am, "R. Mark Clayton"
wrote:

"BrianW" wrote in message

....
On Apr 2, 6:57 am, Doug ranted:

Ramming carried to extremes? As far as cyclists are concerned there
are loads of lethal weapons out there being wielded badly on our roads
and it only takes one at the wrong time in the wrong place.

"A woman who admitted killing a man by running over him in a County
Durham car park has been jailed for five years.

Shaun Dalby, 28, died when he was hit by a Fiat Punto in the Co-op car
park in Coxhoe in February 2010.

Naomi Myers, 22, was originally charged with murder, but a guilty plea
to manslaughter was accepted at Newcastle Crown Court in February..

:I thought that motorists never get charged with murder or
: manslaughter, Doug? *Oh dear, yet another GollumTheory bites the dust.

Well running over a pedestrian on a zebra crossing used to result in a
manslaughter charge, but this law may have been superseded.

OTOH motorists have been convicted of murder, manslaughter and GBH [with
intent] for driving into pedestrians on the pavement, depending on whether
the jury considered they intended to harm anyone.

Most of the time motorists are charged with careless or dangerous
driving, when there is not intent, but instead they could be charged
with involuntary manslaughter which carries a much longer maximum
sentence.

Maximum sentence under death by dangerous driving is 14 years. *How
often do people convicted of involuntary manslaughter get a sentence
longer than that, Doug?

You are missing the point. Why dream up an alternative charge for
motorists when a suitable one already exists? Also the seriousness of
a charge might be judged by the length of its maximum sentence.

No, you are missing the point, Gollum. Securing a conviction under a
death by dangerous driving charge is easier than securing one under a
manslaughter charge. If you abolish the former, more killer drivers
will walk free. You've been told this a million times. Makes me
wonder whether that is really what you want, so you can whine about it.

Doug wrote:
On Apr 3, 8:31 am, BrianW wrote:

Maximum sentence under death by dangerous driving is 14 years. How
often do people convicted of involuntary manslaughter get a sentence
longer than that, Doug?

You are missing the point. Why dream up an alternative charge for
motorists when a suitable one already exists?

So, all speed limits should be abolished, should they? After all, there's
all manner of other general charges that could be brought if it was actually
dangerous.

On Apr 5, 9:03*am, "Norman Wells" wrote:
Doug wrote:
On Apr 3, 8:31 am, BrianW wrote:
Maximum sentence under death by dangerous driving is 14 years. How
often do people convicted of involuntary manslaughter get a sentence
longer than that, Doug?

You are missing the point. Why dream up an alternative charge for
motorists when a suitable one already exists?

So, all speed limits should be abolished, should they? *After all, there's
all manner of other general charges that could be brought if it was actually
dangerous.

Speed limits are specific to using a road, killing or injuring people
with a dangerous weapon isn't. The problem here is that a car is not
generally perceived as a weapon but it should be.

-- .
UK Radical Campaigns.(Recently updated).
http://www.zing.icom43.net
A driving licence is a licence to kill.

Doug gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying:

The problem here is that a car is not generally perceived as a weapon

Nor is a hammer.
Nor is a screwdriver.
Nor is a kitchen knife.
Nor is a housebrick.
Nor is a piece of wood.

but it should be.

Should they be, too?

Doug wrote:
On Apr 5, 9:03 am, "Norman Wells" wrote:
Doug wrote:
On Apr 3, 8:31 am, BrianW wrote:

Maximum sentence under death by dangerous driving is 14 years. How
often do people convicted of involuntary manslaughter get a
sentence longer than that, Doug?

You are missing the point. Why dream up an alternative charge for
motorists when a suitable one already exists?

So, all speed limits should be abolished, should they? After all,
there's all manner of other general charges that could be brought if
it was actually dangerous.

Speed limits are specific to using a road

No they're not, you see. As I think you very well know, speed limits do not
apply to cyclists. They apply specifically to motorists.

So, we have here a dreamt up "alternative charged for motorists when a
suitable one already exists", which is just what you were criticising. So,
why shouldn't all speed limits be abolished?

On 06/04/2011 06:55, Doug wrote:
On Apr 5, 9:03 am, "Norman wrote:
Doug wrote:
On Apr 3, 8:31 am, wrote:
Maximum sentence under death by dangerous driving is 14 years. How
often do people convicted of involuntary manslaughter get a sentence
longer than that, Doug?

You are missing the point. Why dream up an alternative charge for
motorists when a suitable one already exists?

So, all speed limits should be abolished, should they? After all, there's
all manner of other general charges that could be brought if it was actually
dangerous.

Speed limits are specific to using a road,...

There is a speed limit on my local river, there are speed limits all
over the rail network and, below flight level 100, there is one on
aircraft too.

Colin Bignell