I am that out of date

On 4/22/2021 10:36 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/21/2021 10:33 PM, wrote:

I somehow forgot about clipless pedals. They are a HUGE
improvement. I started with Time Equipe road pedals back
in the late 1980s, early 1990s. Same ones Lemond used.

Interestingly, the guy who set our club's record for club
mileage (11,000+ miles of club rides, not counting his
individual rides) just got a new pair of shoes for riding.
They're ordinary New Balance sneakers. He rides using toe
clips.


There are also the occasional barefoot marathon runner and
US football kicker. They are outliers.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thursday, April 22, 2021 at 8:59:48 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/22/2021 10:36 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/21/2021 10:33 PM, wrote:

I somehow forgot about clipless pedals. They are a HUGE
improvement. I started with Time Equipe road pedals back
in the late 1980s, early 1990s. Same ones Lemond used.

Interestingly, the guy who set our club's record for club
mileage (11,000+ miles of club rides, not counting his
individual rides) just got a new pair of shoes for riding.
They're ordinary New Balance sneakers. He rides using toe
clips.

There are also the occasional barefoot marathon runner and
US football kicker. They are outliers.

One of our club riders mentioned that most falls on bicycles stems from people not getting their feet out of clips rapidly enough. So he reverted to flat pedals. Now he cannot keep up on any climbs. And people with training can get out of pedals just as fast as he can step off of a flat pedal since they are ready to clip out when the conditions warrant care.

On Thursday, April 22, 2021 at 8:36:26 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/21/2021 10:33 PM, wrote:

I somehow forgot about clipless pedals. They are a HUGE improvement. I started with Time Equipe road pedals back in the late 1980s, early 1990s. Same ones Lemond used.
Interestingly, the guy who set our club's record for club mileage
(11,000+ miles of club rides, not counting his individual rides) just
got a new pair of shoes for riding. They're ordinary New Balance
sneakers. He rides using toe clips.

Meanwhile, serious cyclists use step in pedal systems. https://lessonsinbadassery.com/amand...iles-423-days/ Way better than smashing your toes against clips in soft toe-box shoes. I even preferred Beta Bikers back in the day, and today I would tour on SPDs.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 4/22/2021 1:06 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, April 22, 2021 at 8:36:26 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/21/2021 10:33 PM, wrote:

I somehow forgot about clipless pedals. They are a HUGE improvement. I started with Time Equipe road pedals back in the late 1980s, early 1990s. Same ones Lemond used.
Interestingly, the guy who set our club's record for club mileage
(11,000+ miles of club rides, not counting his individual rides) just
got a new pair of shoes for riding. They're ordinary New Balance
sneakers. He rides using toe clips.

Meanwhile, serious cyclists use step in pedal systems.

As well as other systems!

I remember the arguments of yore in this forum, about who could be
called a "real cyclist." IIRC, many posters thought the "real cyclists"
were the ones who used the posters' equipment choice.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Thursday, April 22, 2021 at 7:45:34 a.m. UTC-4, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
Am Wed, 21 Apr 2021 20:06:52 -0400 schrieb Frank Krygowski
:
On 4/21/2021 7:01 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/21/2021 3:10 PM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
...
Or bottle dynamos, like that one. It sucked.
https://www.mystrobl.de/Plone/radfahren/technik/komponenten/licht/P1050501a.JPG/view.html
...
If i was asked to list improvements, I'd name hub dynamos, led lights
with free-form reflectors, clipless pedals (esp. SPD), plus all those
tiny improvements which aren't really exiting and less observable -
better brake pads, better alloy, better tires, better handlebar tape,
...


"Do you know what it is?"
Roller dynamo, usually mounted behind the crank where they wear quickly
from road grit.

Is that a Sanyo or a Union or a Soubitez?

My guess is Sanyo. There's one on one of my wife's bikes now. It's fine
for her occasional use.
Correct, a Sanyo Dynapower. I bought it for the Peugeot PR 60/L shown in
the link above with an Union bottle generator. At that time I used the
Peugeot for commuting during sommer and winter, with various lights. I
tried almost everything, and broke almost everything available at that
time.

I'm retired for more than three years now and mostly don't ride in the
dark anymore. But as a backup and because it's the law, I carry an
b&m Ixon Core in my bag and an Sigma Blaze mounted at the seat post.

https://www.bumm.de/en/products/akku-scheinwerfer/produkt/180l%20.html
https://www.sigmasport.com/en/images/sigma_website/produkte/slider/slider_blaze/slider/01_slider_blaze_black.jpg
--
Wir danken für die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen

I tried one of those Sanyo Dynahub roller generators and did NOT like the beam pattern with the included light/ That beam pattern was a long T with both portions of the T being very narrow. Maybe with a different light it would have been better.

I also thought about cutting out a section of rear fender on my cantilever brakes touring bike and then mounting the dynamo to the brake bridge. However the lousy beam pattern meant I had no interest in doing that.

Cheers

On Thursday, April 22, 2021 at 7:50:24 a.m. UTC-4, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 21, 2021 at 10:06:48 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:

And speaking of rpm: I remember one evening, playing Vivaldi, I told my
wife "Wow, I don't like this performance. It seems rushed and screechy."
Then I realized the speed control lever had been bumped. I was playing a
33 rpm recording at 45 rpm.

Fun at parties - PLay the album version of Beast Of Burden by the Rolling Stones and 45 RPM - Tell everyone it's the Dolly Parton version. And if you're bored, Youtube the Bette Midler performance on the Johnny Carson Show - One of the few times Carson was flummoxed (I saw it the night it aired)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vov5JBTDyBM

Play a 33 & 1/3 rpm record at 78 rpms and if singing, it'd sound like Alvin and the Chipmunks.

Cheers

On Thursday, April 22, 2021 at 7:34:46 AM UTC-5, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
Am Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:33:09 -0700 (PDT) schrieb
" :
On Wednesday, April 21, 2021 at 3:12:28 PM UTC-5, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
...
What about better brakes?

What about them? I had a lower cost Schwinn in 1981.
I owned and rode that Rabeneick in, well, about 1966. The brakes
sucked. Much later in 1978 I bought an somewhat expensive Peugeot PR
60/L. A very nice bicycle indeed, but the Mafac cantilever brakes
sucked. Replacing those by the long version of the Shimano 105 dual
pivot brakes was like night and day. I used that bike heavily up to 1995
and occasionally up to 2010. In that year one of my sons used for a
tour from Bonn to Essen, about 130 km. The bike was useable, but in
comparison to the other two bikes, its age was quite noticeable.

https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/fahrrad/lichtc1.jpg, already shown.
It had
center pull brakes. They worked just fine. I had a loaded
touring bike with cantilever brakes. They worked just fine
going down mountains carrying 30 pounds of gear at 60 mph.
We used our Peugeot bikes in in the eighties in the south of France,
mostly in the flats, but not always. It was doable and we very much
enjoyed it, but riding in the rain left something to be desired. I very
much prefer the dual pivot Ultegra brake on my actual road bike, or the
v-brake on the touring bike.
I've never tried disc brakes.
I didn't either, so far, because I dont't have a need for these and
prefer the easier handling of classic rim brakes.
But brakes have always worked
just fine for the past hundred years. I'm sure recent
improvements are better. But not much better since there
wasn't much to improve.
Well, this is why I don't really like these ****ing contests wrt.
innovations. Sometimes, progress comes in tiny steps, almost invisible.
Anyway, there was a lot to improve. Modern brakes work better when the
rim is wet and have a lot less hysteresis. I guess some of the disc
brake hype comes from people switching from old rim brakes to new disc
brakes.

Awhile ago cars had drum brakes. All cars have disc brakes now. The old drum brakes worked. I am sure disc brakes are better. An improvement. A necessary improvement. Yes. But I don't think it was like we went from rear end crashes on every single drive to rear end crashes once a decade when brakes changed from drum to disc. Disc brakes work better than drum brakes in cars. New bicycle disc and sidepull and cantilever brakes work better than the much, much older centerpull and sidepull brakes on bicycles from long, long ago. But it ain't night and day, life or death different.









Since derailleur gearing I think we've been chasing ever
tinier marginal improvements.
Sure. But some of those marginal improvements are nice, nevertheless.

Yes. No one is arguing that they were not "improvements".
Just the amount of improvement.
See above. It depends on the time span you're looking at and is somewhat
arbitrary.

...

If i was asked to list improvements, I'd name hub dynamos, led lights
with free-form reflectors, clipless pedals (esp. SPD), plus all those
tiny improvements which aren't really exiting and less observable -
better brake pads, better alloy, better tires, better handlebar tape,
...

I somehow forgot about clipless pedals.
They are a HUGE improvement. I started with Time Equipe
road pedals back in the late 1980s, early 1990s.
Same ones Lemond used.
Indeed.

Well, I used clips initially on the Peugeot, but without the strap,
sometimes called "Ladyhaken" (lady clips) around here,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_pedal#Quill
then bought Shimano M232 in 1995 and PD-M525 in '96.
--
Wir danken für die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen

On Thursday, April 22, 2021 at 8:34:46 a.m. UTC-4, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
Am Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:33:09 -0700 (PDT) schrieb
" :
On Wednesday, April 21, 2021 at 3:12:28 PM UTC-5, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
...
What about better brakes?

What about them? I had a lower cost Schwinn in 1981.
I owned and rode that Rabeneick in, well, about 1966. The brakes
sucked. Much later in 1978 I bought an somewhat expensive Peugeot PR
60/L. A very nice bicycle indeed, but the Mafac cantilever brakes
sucked. Replacing those by the long version of the Shimano 105 dual
pivot brakes was like night and day. I used that bike heavily up to 1995
and occasionally up to 2010. In that year one of my sons used for a
tour from Bonn to Essen, about 130 km. The bike was useable, but in
comparison to the other two bikes, its age was quite noticeable.

https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/fahrrad/lichtc1.jpg, already shown.
It had
center pull brakes. They worked just fine. I had a loaded
touring bike with cantilever brakes. They worked just fine
going down mountains carrying 30 pounds of gear at 60 mph.
We used our Peugeot bikes in in the eighties in the south of France,
mostly in the flats, but not always. It was doable and we very much
enjoyed it, but riding in the rain left something to be desired. I very
much prefer the dual pivot Ultegra brake on my actual road bike, or the
v-brake on the touring bike.
I've never tried disc brakes.
I didn't either, so far, because I dont't have a need for these and
prefer the easier handling of classic rim brakes.
But brakes have always worked
just fine for the past hundred years. I'm sure recent
improvements are better. But not much better since there
wasn't much to improve.
Well, this is why I don't really like these ****ing contests wrt.
innovations. Sometimes, progress comes in tiny steps, almost invisible.
Anyway, there was a lot to improve. Modern brakes work better when the
rim is wet and have a lot less hysteresis. I guess some of the disc
brake hype comes from people switching from old rim brakes to new disc
brakes.



Since derailleur gearing I think we've been chasing ever
tinier marginal improvements.
Sure. But some of those marginal improvements are nice, nevertheless.

Yes. No one is arguing that they were not "improvements".
Just the amount of improvement.
See above. It depends on the time span you're looking at and is somewhat
arbitrary.

...

If i was asked to list improvements, I'd name hub dynamos, led lights
with free-form reflectors, clipless pedals (esp. SPD), plus all those
tiny improvements which aren't really exiting and less observable -
better brake pads, better alloy, better tires, better handlebar tape,
...

I somehow forgot about clipless pedals.
They are a HUGE improvement. I started with Time Equipe
road pedals back in the late 1980s, early 1990s.
Same ones Lemond used.
Indeed.

Well, I used clips initially on the Peugeot, but without the strap,
sometimes called "Ladyhaken" (lady clips) around here,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_pedal#Quill
then bought Shimano M232 in 1995 and PD-M525 in '96.
--
Wir danken für die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen

I changed the brake calipers on my winter bike from cantilever to V-brakes (also changed the brake levers) because I found a HUGE difference when trying to stop in wet snow and/or slush. The V-brakes would stop almost instantly where the cantilever brakes would maybe slow the bike down a bit at first. Those cantilever brakes were properly set up too.

I think another big advantage with disc brakes besides their stopping power when wet or snow, is that the wheel does not have to be perfectly true in order to prevent brake rub. I think that's a big part of why they're so popular on MTBs.

Cheers

Op donderdag 22 april 2021 om 20:33:34 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski:
On 4/22/2021 1:06 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, April 22, 2021 at 8:36:26 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/21/2021 10:33 PM, wrote:

I somehow forgot about clipless pedals. They are a HUGE improvement. I started with Time Equipe road pedals back in the late 1980s, early 1990s. Same ones Lemond used.
Interestingly, the guy who set our club's record for club mileage
(11,000+ miles of club rides, not counting his individual rides) just
got a new pair of shoes for riding. They're ordinary New Balance
sneakers. He rides using toe clips.

Meanwhile, serious cyclists use step in pedal systems.
As well as other systems!

I remember the arguments of yore in this forum, about who could be
called a "real cyclist." IIRC, many posters thought the "real cyclists"
were the ones who used the posters' equipment choice.



Really? For a long time I have the idea that the posters here are far away from riding that 'latest and the greatest'.

Lou

On Thursday, April 22, 2021 at 11:36:26 a.m. UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/21/2021 10:33 PM, wrote:

I somehow forgot about clipless pedals. They are a HUGE improvement. I started with Time Equipe road pedals back in the late 1980s, early 1990s. Same ones Lemond used.
Interestingly, the guy who set our club's record for club mileage
(11,000+ miles of club rides, not counting his individual rides) just
got a new pair of shoes for riding. They're ordinary New Balance
sneakers. He rides using toe clips.

--
- Frank Krygowski

If you want real foot pain, try riding a long distance on dirt roads whilst wearing regular sneakers and using Lyotard pedals. I did it once when I had to detour to a longer route. NEVER AGAIN! I bought an unlugged sole MTB pair of shoes with a removeable cover over the cleat area. Those work just like a good old school touring shoe and ar quite comfortable to walk in. I use pedals with toe-clips and straps on most of my bikes. If I use a road style clipless pedal then it's an original Look or same cleat Shimano type.

Cheers