More dumb**** liberals...

On Aug 12, 4:36*pm, "Paul G." wrote:
On Aug 12, 12:53*pm, Scott wrote:





On Aug 12, 1:43*pm, "Paul G." wrote:

On Aug 12, 11:36*am, Scott wrote:

Wow, you caught a spelling error. *That's the only thing in your post
that's sensible. *Now, I think I'll go commit sepuku in shame.

It's kind of like getting an email from "your bank", but the name of
the bank is misspelled. *A "company commander" who misspells
"sergeant" *sets off the same alarm bells.

Like I said, *"I think it would be far more interesting to hear a
"company commander" state his opinion of George "W"uss's leadership on
9/11." * Seems quite reasonable to me, yet you wussed out. * I've
stated what I thought of our pathetic excuse for a president's actions
on 9/11, and exactly why. *I didn't even get into his shameful actions
later on, when he went into hiding. *That must have made bin Laden's
day, seeing the president of the United States on the run from a
handful of Muslims with box cutters.

If you're not man enough to analyze Bush's actions from a company
commander's perspective, I'll understand. *Lots of bull****ters
exaggerate their military service.
-Paul

You're the one ragging on Bush, not me. *Like you (to a very limited
degree) I don't think he's above reproach, but I do not feel the need
or choose to critique his actions on 9/11. *For one thing, we only
know what the press has told us about his actions and we are not privy
to all the conversations or all his decisions on that day. *Could
things have been better? *Sure. *Would I classify his actions on 9/11
as cowardly or incompetent? *No.

The crucial part was videotaped. *There is no question what happened.
His aide steps up and whispers in his ear. The aide says he told Bush
that a second plane had hit the WTC and "the nation is under
attack." * You can see exactly what Bush did, which was nothing. He
froze:http://www.buzzflash.com/editorial/0...057.html#video

What would you say about a "company commander" who just sat there when
told "Sir, the company is under attack"?

You keep referring to people wussing out and you've previously said
that when you get in people's faces they back down. *Just when was the
last time you actually stood up to someone in person? *Really? *C'mon
now, fess up, you're not such a badass, are you?

Heh heh! * I'm roughly the size and shape of a grizzly bear. Normally
a scowl does the job. *Last time I can think of was when I saw a
pickup truck ramming and pushing the side of a car with a woman in it.
I stopped my car about 50' away, got out and started walking over
there. To my relief he looked at me, backed up and took off. *I'll be
damned if the woman didn't drive after him! *I was quite happy to have
done my civic duty without getting run over or shot.

I also have a really funny story about why I now ignore insults from
carloads of white trash while out cycling. *But no, I'm not a badass
in person. But none of that matters in usenet. *The taunts are just
usenet hyperbole used to achieve a goal. Mission accomplished. *I got
you to say "Would I classify [Bush's] actions on 9/11 as cowardly or
incompetent? *No." *Yet you also say "I do not feel the need or choose
to critique [Bush's] actions on 9/11." *I find that very odd.

I used to race bikes, and so I sometimes critique bike racing. I
should think someone who's been in command would instinctively recoil
at the idea of a president who just sits there when told "the nation
is under attack." * What kind of commander were you, just a pencil-
pushing bureaucrat?

As for me exxagerating anything, well... considering that I haven't
really told you very much other than I was a company commander of an
infantry company, I haven't exactly claimed very much, now have I?
What, exactly, about that counts as an exxageration?

The "commander of an infantry company" who can't spell "sergeant".
I've actually had my service questioned because I didn't blindly
support Our Glorious Leader, and I'm only claiming to have been a
lowly radar tech. * Of course everyone knows the real bull****ters
claim they were Marines, not merely Army, so that's a point in your
favor.
-Paul- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

With what limited respect I can muster, I'm not impressed by any of
your rants and I doubt seriously that you could back me or anyone down
with a scowl. My guess is you're big as a bear, a 40% bodyfat bear.
Not particularly scary to be confronted by someone like that, unless
you're carrying ice cream.

I haven't questioned your service. You tell us you worked as a radar
tech. I believe you. You bet your ass I believe you. I have
commented on the nature of your service, qualifying it as "camp
follower" to prove the point that you aren't so damn brave, either,
and you arrogantly think that because you were "educated" you were
better suited to working with radars instead of doing the grunt work,
as if there is something demeaning about being in the combat arms.
Your elitist attitude has come out in numerous posts, but what you
don't understand is that the great majority of those serving in the
combat arms are as educated as you, but not so pussified as to look
for the easy way out or to avoid the hard, dangerous work that's
required.

Some might say I have an elitist attitude, too, and I do. I proudly
served in elite units with very professional, very dedicated soldiers
who'd just as soon stick an icepick in your ear as look at you if I'd
asked 'em to, or who'd lay down their lives for their buddies without
being asked. Guys who happily put up with more crap and hardship then
anyone had a right to put them through, and do it willingly. You
think you were special 'cause you were educated and therefore worked
as a radar tech. What a load of crap. You weren't special, you were
a pussy.

You don't have any ****ing idea what that aide whispered in President
Bush's ear and I for one doubt very seriously it was "the nation is
under attack". Besides, there are any number of contingency plans in
place for all sorts of scenarios, and from my limited experience I'd
imagine that once President Bush was aware that the appropriate
actions were being handled by the people tasked to handle them, I
wouldn't expect him to jump into the nearest phone booth and emerge as
the superhero you seem to think he should've been. Panicked response
is hardly confidence inspiring. You've found an act you can hang your
hat on to justify your hatred for the president. Good for you. On
balance, I'm not so upset with him so I'm not going to get my shorts
all in a bunch over it.

On Aug 13, 7:56*am, Scott wrote:

With what limited respect I can muster, I'm not impressed by any of
your rants and I doubt seriously that you could back me or anyone down
with a scowl. *My guess is you're big as a bear, a 40% bodyfat bear.
Not particularly scary to be confronted by someone like that, unless
you're carrying ice cream.


You're very unimpressive yourself, Rambo. You claim to have
experience as a commander, yet you seem to be better at shooting of
your mouth than assessing Bush's pathetic performance as commander-in-
chief. You obviously don't have what it takes to lead.

I haven't questioned your service. *You tell us you worked as a radar
tech. *I believe you. *You bet your ass I believe you. * I have
commented on the nature of your service, qualifying it as "camp
follower" to prove the point that you aren't so damn brave, either,
and you arrogantly think that because you were "educated" you were
better suited to working with radars instead of doing the grunt work,
as if there is something demeaning about being in the combat arms.

That cuts both ways. You're demeaning the nature of my service, not
that I give a ****. You're making excuses for Bush's pathetic
leadership skills. That's all I need to know about YOUR leadership
skills.

Your elitist attitude has come out in numerous posts, but what you
don't understand is that the great majority of those serving in the
combat arms are as educated as you, but not so pussified as to look
for the easy way out or to avoid the hard, dangerous work that's
required.

snort! The "great majority"?! You need to read more. Of course
that would require pulling your head out of your ass:

WASHINGTON - Army Secretary Noel Harvey and vice chief of staff Gen.
Richard Cody said Monday that the Army was using looser Defense
Department rules that permitted it to sign up more high school
dropouts and people who score lower on mental-qualification tests, but
they denied that this meant it was lowering standards.


Some might say I have an elitist attitude, too, and I do.

OK, so I'm elitist and it's bad, you're elitist and it's good. I
don't give a ****.

I proudly
served in elite units with very professional, very dedicated soldiers
who'd just as soon stick an icepick in your ear as look at you if I'd
asked 'em to,

Psychopaths are like that.


You don't have any ****ing idea what that aide whispered in President
Bush's ear and I for one doubt very seriously it was "the nation is
under attack".

You really are a moron. Andrew Card has publicly stated what happened
at that historic moment. It's on the Whitehouse website:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/ask/20030416.html

"I walked into the room, trying not to be disruptive to the young
students and whispered in the President's right ear, "A second plane
hit the second tower. America is under attack!"

Consider that the usenet equivalent of an icepick in the ear.
-Paul

On Aug 13, 11:30*am, "Paul G." wrote:
On Aug 13, 7:56*am, Scott wrote:



With what limited respect I can muster, I'm not impressed by any of
your rants and I doubt seriously that you could back me or anyone down
with a scowl. *My guess is you're big as a bear, a 40% bodyfat bear.
Not particularly scary to be confronted by someone like that, unless
you're carrying ice cream.

You're very unimpressive yourself, Rambo. *You claim to have
experience as a commander, yet you seem to be better at shooting of
your mouth than assessing Bush's pathetic performance as commander-in-
chief. You obviously don't have what it takes to lead.

I haven't questioned your service. *You tell us you worked as a radar
tech. *I believe you. *You bet your ass I believe you. * I have
commented on the nature of your service, qualifying it as "camp
follower" to prove the point that you aren't so damn brave, either,
and you arrogantly think that because you were "educated" you were
better suited to working with radars instead of doing the grunt work,
as if there is something demeaning about being in the combat arms.

That cuts both ways. You're demeaning the nature of my service, not
that I give a ****. You're making excuses for Bush's pathetic
leadership skills. That's all I need to know about YOUR leadership
skills.

Your elitist attitude has come out in numerous posts, but what you
don't understand is that the great majority of those serving in the
combat arms are as educated as you, but not so pussified as to look
for the easy way out or to avoid the hard, dangerous work that's
required.

snort! *The "great majority"?! * You need to read more. Of course
that would require pulling your head out of your ass:

WASHINGTON - Army Secretary Noel Harvey and vice chief of staff Gen.
Richard Cody said Monday that the Army was using looser Defense
Department rules that permitted it to sign up more high school
dropouts and people who score lower on mental-qualification tests, but
they denied that this meant it was lowering standards.



Some might say I have an elitist attitude, too, and I do.

OK, so I'm elitist and it's bad, you're elitist and it's good. *I
don't give a ****.

I proudly
served in elite units with very professional, very dedicated soldiers
who'd just as soon stick an icepick in your ear as look at you if I'd
asked 'em to,

Psychopaths are like that.



You don't have any ****ing idea what that aide whispered in President
Bush's ear and I for one doubt very seriously it was "the nation is
under attack".

You really are a moron. *Andrew Card has publicly stated what happened
at that historic moment. It's on the Whitehouse website:http://www.whitehouse.gov/ask/20030416.html

"I walked into the room, trying not to be disruptive to the young
students and whispered in the President's right ear, "A second plane
hit the second tower. America is under attack!"

Consider that the usenet equivalent of an icepick in the ear.
-Paul

Funny, but I ain't bleeding.

On Aug 13, 11:16*am, Scott wrote:
On Aug 13, 11:30*am, "Paul G." wrote:



On Aug 13, 7:56*am, Scott wrote:

With what limited respect I can muster, I'm not impressed by any of
your rants and I doubt seriously that you could back me or anyone down
with a scowl. *My guess is you're big as a bear, a 40% bodyfat bear..
Not particularly scary to be confronted by someone like that, unless
you're carrying ice cream.

You're very unimpressive yourself, Rambo. *You claim to have
experience as a commander, yet you seem to be better at shooting of
your mouth than assessing Bush's pathetic performance as commander-in-
chief. You obviously don't have what it takes to lead.

I haven't questioned your service. *You tell us you worked as a radar
tech. *I believe you. *You bet your ass I believe you. * I have
commented on the nature of your service, qualifying it as "camp
follower" to prove the point that you aren't so damn brave, either,
and you arrogantly think that because you were "educated" you were
better suited to working with radars instead of doing the grunt work,
as if there is something demeaning about being in the combat arms.

That cuts both ways. You're demeaning the nature of my service, not
that I give a ****. You're making excuses for Bush's pathetic
leadership skills. That's all I need to know about YOUR leadership
skills.

Your elitist attitude has come out in numerous posts, but what you
don't understand is that the great majority of those serving in the
combat arms are as educated as you, but not so pussified as to look
for the easy way out or to avoid the hard, dangerous work that's
required.

snort! *The "great majority"?! * You need to read more. Of course
that would require pulling your head out of your ass:

WASHINGTON - Army Secretary Noel Harvey and vice chief of staff Gen.
Richard Cody said Monday that the Army was using looser Defense
Department rules that permitted it to sign up more high school
dropouts and people who score lower on mental-qualification tests, but
they denied that this meant it was lowering standards.

Some might say I have an elitist attitude, too, and I do.

OK, so I'm elitist and it's bad, you're elitist and it's good. *I
don't give a ****.

I proudly
served in elite units with very professional, very dedicated soldiers
who'd just as soon stick an icepick in your ear as look at you if I'd
asked 'em to,

Psychopaths are like that.

You don't have any ****ing idea what that aide whispered in President
Bush's ear and I for one doubt very seriously it was "the nation is
under attack".

You really are a moron. *Andrew Card has publicly stated what happened
at that historic moment. It's on the Whitehouse website:http://www.whitehouse.gov/ask/20030416.html

"I walked into the room, trying not to be disruptive to the young
students and whispered in the President's right ear, "A second plane
hit the second tower. America is under attack!"

Consider that the usenet equivalent of an icepick in the ear.
-Paul

Funny, but I ain't bleeding.

Yeah- no bleeding in usenet- dumbass.

"You don't have any ****ing idea what that aide whispered in President
Bush's ear and I for one doubt very seriously it was "the nation is
under attack".
-Rambo Scott

"I ... whispered in the President's right ear, "A second plane hit
the second tower. America is under attack!"
-Andrew Card

Victory is sweet. Now a real man would have the balls to simply say
"I was wrong". You didn't. That makes this doubly sweet.

-Paul

On Aug 13, 2:16*pm, Scott wrote:


Funny, but I ain't bleeding.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Scott go read through the "TK was exactly right thread", if you have
the stomach for it. Where I posted links to what actually went on that
morning with the fighter response, etc...and why there was nothing,
anyone could've done that morning, no matter who to change the
results, but Paul seems to have ignored that because it doesn't fit
his preoconceived ideology.
I'm no Bush fan by a long shot, and I'm betting you aren't either,
but dirty laundry gets aired in the family. Probably no way in hell
you knew my buddy when you were with the 82nd but he was a 81mm mortar
crewman, Was a corporal at that point I think, Kandrotas.
My address is good, and mentioned your thoughts about going to
Landstuhl to Meesha which triggered the "we should go too", back
there, or back to Ft. Lewis. Just mail along any questions, or she's
working at Westover ARB now, but I'm not sure if she's got a dsn line
or current equivalent. I think she does. I could probably get that for
you.
Bill C

On Aug 13, 12:04*pm, Bill C wrote:
On Aug 13, 2:16*pm, Scott wrote:



Funny, but I ain't bleeding.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Scott go read through the "TK was exactly right thread", if you have
the stomach for it. Where I posted links to what actually went on that
morning with the fighter response, etc...and why there was nothing,
anyone could've done that morning, no matter who to change the
results, but Paul seems to have ignored that because it doesn't fit
his preoconceived ideology.

That doesn't matter. The fact is Bush froze in a crisis. It is a
clear, simple example of why he is not and never was qualified to be
president, and it's on video. The fact that we got lucky and there
were only 4 planes is irrelevant to Bush's fitness to be commander-in-
chief. A leader who won't lead is like a fighter pilot who won't fly-
and that's also what Bush is.

Get that thru your thick head.
-Paul

On Aug 13, 3:29*pm, "Paul G." wrote:
On Aug 13, 12:04*pm, Bill C wrote:

On Aug 13, 2:16*pm, Scott wrote:

Funny, but I ain't bleeding.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Scott go read through the "TK was exactly right thread", if you have
the stomach for it. Where I posted links to what actually went on that
morning with the fighter response, etc...and why there was nothing,
anyone could've done that morning, no matter who to change the
results, but Paul seems to have ignored that because it doesn't fit
his preoconceived ideology.

That doesn't matter. The fact is Bush froze in a crisis. It is a
clear, simple example of why he is not and never was qualified to be
president, and it's on video. The fact that we got lucky and there
were only 4 planes is irrelevant to Bush's fitness to be commander-in-
chief. *A leader who won't lead is like a fighter pilot who won't fly-
and that's also what Bush is.

Get that thru your thick head.
-Paul

He's lead very nicely for the folks he gives a **** about. His
corporate buddies are making a fortune, even when the GAO found that
Halibuton/KBR had over/fraudulently billed at least 10s of millions of
dollars he ordered it paid. Then there's his last minute assault on
the Endangered Species protections which goes hand in hand with
handing over public lands for the for profit exploitation of his
energy and mining buddies.
There's a ton of valid things to hammer him on, that particular
morning isn't really one of them. You'd obviously have preferred the
Alexander Haig approach I assume?
Bill C

On Aug 13, 12:53*pm, "Paul G." wrote:
On Aug 13, 11:16*am, Scott wrote:





On Aug 13, 11:30*am, "Paul G." wrote:

On Aug 13, 7:56*am, Scott wrote:

With what limited respect I can muster, I'm not impressed by any of
your rants and I doubt seriously that you could back me or anyone down
with a scowl. *My guess is you're big as a bear, a 40% bodyfat bear.
Not particularly scary to be confronted by someone like that, unless
you're carrying ice cream.

You're very unimpressive yourself, Rambo. *You claim to have
experience as a commander, yet you seem to be better at shooting of
your mouth than assessing Bush's pathetic performance as commander-in-
chief. You obviously don't have what it takes to lead.

I haven't questioned your service. *You tell us you worked as a radar
tech. *I believe you. *You bet your ass I believe you. * I have
commented on the nature of your service, qualifying it as "camp
follower" to prove the point that you aren't so damn brave, either,
and you arrogantly think that because you were "educated" you were
better suited to working with radars instead of doing the grunt work,
as if there is something demeaning about being in the combat arms.

That cuts both ways. You're demeaning the nature of my service, not
that I give a ****. You're making excuses for Bush's pathetic
leadership skills. That's all I need to know about YOUR leadership
skills.

Your elitist attitude has come out in numerous posts, but what you
don't understand is that the great majority of those serving in the
combat arms are as educated as you, but not so pussified as to look
for the easy way out or to avoid the hard, dangerous work that's
required.

snort! *The "great majority"?! * You need to read more. Of course
that would require pulling your head out of your ass:

WASHINGTON - Army Secretary Noel Harvey and vice chief of staff Gen.
Richard Cody said Monday that the Army was using looser Defense
Department rules that permitted it to sign up more high school
dropouts and people who score lower on mental-qualification tests, but
they denied that this meant it was lowering standards.

Some might say I have an elitist attitude, too, and I do.

OK, so I'm elitist and it's bad, you're elitist and it's good. *I
don't give a ****.

I proudly
served in elite units with very professional, very dedicated soldiers
who'd just as soon stick an icepick in your ear as look at you if I'd
asked 'em to,

Psychopaths are like that.

You don't have any ****ing idea what that aide whispered in President
Bush's ear and I for one doubt very seriously it was "the nation is
under attack".

You really are a moron. *Andrew Card has publicly stated what happened
at that historic moment. It's on the Whitehouse website:http://www.whitehouse.gov/ask/20030416.html

"I walked into the room, trying not to be disruptive to the young
students and whispered in the President's right ear, "A second plane
hit the second tower. America is under attack!"

Consider that the usenet equivalent of an icepick in the ear.
-Paul

Funny, but I ain't bleeding.

Yeah- no bleeding in usenet- dumbass.

"You don't have any ****ing idea what that aide whispered in President
Bush's ear and I for one doubt very seriously it was "the nation is
under attack".
-Rambo Scott

*"I ... whispered in the President's right ear, "A second plane hit
the second tower. America is under attack!"
-Andrew Card

Victory is sweet. *Now a real man would have the balls to simply say
"I was wrong". * You didn't. That makes this doubly sweet.

-Paul- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If you want relish in your "victory", go ahead. At the moment I'm not
familiar with the details of what was presented to President Bush that
day, how much he knew, when he knew it, etc... and without anything
other than your declaration of how the events happened to go on, I
wouldn't concede anything.

Besides, what the hell do you know about having balls?

One small thing to consider.

Most disaster response protocols say that the best place for the leader in
the first few minutes is in a safe place with good communications. The
theory being that he should be in a central location and assessing
information while the underlings make the proper responses, responses which
they have rehearsed many times and know by heart.

In the first few minutes or even hours, a top leader may well do more harm
than good by inserting himself into the decision loop at the operational
level. If the leader is in the communication loop, the lower-level people
may defer to him on some crucial questions or just wait for his words of
wisdom, even though the lower-level people know full well what needs to be
done and are prepared to do it.

The decisions that need to be taken in the first few minutes are tactical
decisions, not strategic or grand strategic decisions. The leader will not
be familiar with the tactical questions and it may be too early in the
response to worry about strategic questions.

I'm not a Bush fan, but I don't find much fault with the initial response
to the 9/11 attacks.

Barry Harmon

On Aug 13, 3:12*pm, Scott wrote:

*At the moment I'm not
familiar with the details of what was presented to President Bush that
day, how much he knew, when he knew it, etc... and without anything
other than your declaration of how the events happened to go on, I
wouldn't concede anything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

Hi Scott. Did you get a good look at my near crash on Sunday? I'd be
interested in hearing how that started if you know.

Bret