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#1091
October 15th 04, 02:28 AM
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On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:37:58 -0700, Benjamin Lewis
wrote: wrote: The preferred method of murder by anthrax, however, is to introduce lots of the spores into a cut or even inject them. For an example, see "Some Buried Caesar," the 1939 Nero Wolfe mystery in which Archie Goodwin first meets Lily Rowan. Rex Stout was fond of poisons, so there are also mysteries in which tetanus is used. Alas, no Nero Wolfe mysteries that I remember feature bicycles, possibly because Wolfe's lazy obesity keeps him house-bound and possibly because bicycle messengers became popular in New York City only after Stout's era. I also can't imagine the more mobile Archie on a bicycle by choice, although he would regularly walk 30 blocks; it just doesn't seem like his style. Possibly Fritz? Dear Benjamin, Curse you, now I have to re-read a lot of mysteries whose plots I never follow! (I read them only for the constant battle between Archie and Nero, who could give lessons in obnoxiousness to even the most hardened rec.bicycles.tech posters.) Somewhere in the jumble-heap of why "The Two Noble Kinsmen" was not written by Shakespeare (look at the opening scene!) and the differences between the orginal and the Disney editions of "The Sword in the Stone" (cuts in White's allusions to Elizabethan drama)--somewhere in there is a faint memory of Fritz Brenner riding a bicycle. There are only fifty or so Nero Wolfe novels and books, so it shouldn't take more than a few days to skim them all. Sullenly, Carl Fogel 
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#1092
October 15th 04, 08:11 AM
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#1093
October 15th 04, 08:11 AM
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#1094
October 17th 04, 12:40 AM
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Mark Hickey writes:
The Palestinians are a great example of "the problem" - they're told by their government from early childhood that the Jews and the US are the root of all their problems, and that they MUST hate Israelis (and Americans). Not quite. The "problem" is the continual Israeli violation of international law- and their own laws vis a vis Palestine. It's very clear from the actions of the Israeli government that they do not want a solution to the "problem" since they are the root of the problem.
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#1095
October 17th 04, 12:40 AM
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Mark Hickey writes:
The Palestinians are a great example of "the problem" - they're told by their government from early childhood that the Jews and the US are the root of all their problems, and that they MUST hate Israelis (and Americans). Not quite. The "problem" is the continual Israeli violation of international law- and their own laws vis a vis Palestine. It's very clear from the actions of the Israeli government that they do not want a solution to the "problem" since they are the root of the problem.
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#1096
October 17th 04, 11:01 PM
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Broad Use of Harsh Tactics Is Described at Cuba Base
By NEIL A. LEWIS Published: October 17, 2004 WASHINGTON, Oct. 16 - Many detainees at Guantanamo Bay were regularly subjected to harsh and coercive treatment, several people who worked in the prison said in recent interviews, despite longstanding assertions by military officials that such treatment had not occurred except in some isolated cases. The people, military guards, intelligence agents and others, described in interviews with The New York Times a range of procedures that included treatment they said was highly abusive occurring over a long period of time, as well as rewards for prisoners who cooperated with interrogators. One regular procedure that was described by people who worked at Camp Delta, the main prison facility at the naval base in Cuba, was making uncooperative prisoners strip to their underwear, having them sit in a chair while shackled hand and foot to a bolt in the floor, and forcing them to endure strobe lights and screamingly loud rock and rap music played through two close loudspeakers, while the air-conditioning was turned up to maximum levels, said one military official who witnessed the procedure. The official said that was intended to make the detainees uncomfortable, as they were accustomed to high temperatures both in their native countries and their cells. Such sessions could last up to 14 hours with breaks, said the official, who described the treatment after being contacted by The Times. "It fried them," the official said, who said that anger over the treatment the prisoners endured was the reason for speaking with a reporter. Another person familiar with the procedure who was contacted by The Times said: "They were very wobbly. They came back to their cells and were just completely out of it." The new information comes from a number of people, some of whom witnessed or participated in the techniques and others who were in a position to know the details of the operation and corroborate their accounts. Those who spoke of the interrogation practices at the naval base did so under the condition that their identities not be revealed. While some said it was because they remained on active duty, they all said that being publicly identified would endanger their futures. Although some former prisoners have said they saw and experienced mistreatment at Guantanamo, this is the first time that people who worked there have provided detailed accounts of some interrogation procedures. One intelligence official said most of the intense interrogation was focused on a group of detainees known as the "Dirty 30" and believed to be the best potential sources of information. In August, a report commissioned by Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld found that tough techniques approved by the government were rarely used, but the sources described a broader pattern that went beyond even the aggressive techniques that were permissible. The issue of what were permissible interrogation techniques has produced a vigorous debate within the government that burst into the open with reports of abuses at Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad and is now the subject of several investigations. Since the Sept. 11 attacks and the war in Afghanistan, the administration has wrestled with the issue of what techniques are permissible, with many arguing that the campaign against terrorism should entitle them to greater leeway. Alberto R. Gonzales, the White House counsel said, for example, in one memorandum that the Geneva Conventions were "quaint" and not suitable for the war against terrorism. ------------------------- David Sheffer, a senior State Department human rights official in the Clinton administration who teaches law at George Washington University, said the procedure of shackling prisoners to the floor in a state of undress while playing loud music - the Guantanamo sources said it included the bands Limp Bizkit and Rage Against the Machine, and the rapper Eminem - and lights clearly constituted torture. "I don't think there's any question that treatment of that character satisfies the severe pain and suffering requirement, be it physical or mental, that is provided for in the Convention Against Torture," Mr. Sheffer said. ------------------------- Jobst Brandt
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#1097
October 17th 04, 11:01 PM
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Broad Use of Harsh Tactics Is Described at Cuba Base
By NEIL A. LEWIS Published: October 17, 2004 WASHINGTON, Oct. 16 - Many detainees at Guantanamo Bay were regularly subjected to harsh and coercive treatment, several people who worked in the prison said in recent interviews, despite longstanding assertions by military officials that such treatment had not occurred except in some isolated cases. The people, military guards, intelligence agents and others, described in interviews with The New York Times a range of procedures that included treatment they said was highly abusive occurring over a long period of time, as well as rewards for prisoners who cooperated with interrogators. One regular procedure that was described by people who worked at Camp Delta, the main prison facility at the naval base in Cuba, was making uncooperative prisoners strip to their underwear, having them sit in a chair while shackled hand and foot to a bolt in the floor, and forcing them to endure strobe lights and screamingly loud rock and rap music played through two close loudspeakers, while the air-conditioning was turned up to maximum levels, said one military official who witnessed the procedure. The official said that was intended to make the detainees uncomfortable, as they were accustomed to high temperatures both in their native countries and their cells. Such sessions could last up to 14 hours with breaks, said the official, who described the treatment after being contacted by The Times. "It fried them," the official said, who said that anger over the treatment the prisoners endured was the reason for speaking with a reporter. Another person familiar with the procedure who was contacted by The Times said: "They were very wobbly. They came back to their cells and were just completely out of it." The new information comes from a number of people, some of whom witnessed or participated in the techniques and others who were in a position to know the details of the operation and corroborate their accounts. Those who spoke of the interrogation practices at the naval base did so under the condition that their identities not be revealed. While some said it was because they remained on active duty, they all said that being publicly identified would endanger their futures. Although some former prisoners have said they saw and experienced mistreatment at Guantanamo, this is the first time that people who worked there have provided detailed accounts of some interrogation procedures. One intelligence official said most of the intense interrogation was focused on a group of detainees known as the "Dirty 30" and believed to be the best potential sources of information. In August, a report commissioned by Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld found that tough techniques approved by the government were rarely used, but the sources described a broader pattern that went beyond even the aggressive techniques that were permissible. The issue of what were permissible interrogation techniques has produced a vigorous debate within the government that burst into the open with reports of abuses at Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad and is now the subject of several investigations. Since the Sept. 11 attacks and the war in Afghanistan, the administration has wrestled with the issue of what techniques are permissible, with many arguing that the campaign against terrorism should entitle them to greater leeway. Alberto R. Gonzales, the White House counsel said, for example, in one memorandum that the Geneva Conventions were "quaint" and not suitable for the war against terrorism. ------------------------- David Sheffer, a senior State Department human rights official in the Clinton administration who teaches law at George Washington University, said the procedure of shackling prisoners to the floor in a state of undress while playing loud music - the Guantanamo sources said it included the bands Limp Bizkit and Rage Against the Machine, and the rapper Eminem - and lights clearly constituted torture. "I don't think there's any question that treatment of that character satisfies the severe pain and suffering requirement, be it physical or mental, that is provided for in the Convention Against Torture," Mr. Sheffer said. ------------------------- Jobst Brandt
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#1098
October 18th 04, 01:22 AM
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#1099
October 18th 04, 01:22 AM
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#1100
October 18th 04, 04:17 AM
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Mark Hickey wrote:
... Bottom line - some people just overreact. Last night as I was leaving the Bank One Ballpark rally (cool event, but they didn't seem to be expecting 35,000 people)... as we were leaving, the police (for some unknown reason) slid one of the gates shut. This temporarily boxed in a good number of people, most of whom didn't really appreciate it. After a few moments, they re-opened the gate. We walked out beside a couple young (college-age) guys - one of them was visibly shaken, and was talking about how that was his "worst nightmare"... that it was just like Nazi Germany and the brownshirts. Two things to keep in mind - they were probably Republicans (so they should know better), and I just invoked Godwin's law. Thread over. No, you did not meet the criteria from invoking Godwin's Law. Try to get something right once in a while. -- Tom Sherman
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