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  #31  
Old November 10th 19, 10:44 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 13,447
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On 11/10/2019 3:24 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, November 10, 2019 at 1:01:14 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/10/2019 2:23 PM, sms wrote:
On 11/9/2019 11:52 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

snip

Anyway, if you're going to go electronic, you might as
well go all
electronic.

You can also get rid of the pedals, cranks, and spindle and
just use the batteries to power a motor in one of the wheels.


Right.
Why, by 1910 our bicycles may be greatly 'advanced':

https://tinyurl.com/txcgca7


I like the minimalist seat. Cinelli?

-- Jay Beattie.


Probably a design patent- requires the matching shorts.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


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  #32  
Old November 11th 19, 12:49 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ralph Barone[_4_]
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Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 18:16:18 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Inverse square law. Double the distance and you deliver only half the
power. What works in the near field (very close), fails in the far
field (far away). The RF power levels needed to make a cell phone
charger work at a distance is about the same as what it would take to
barbeque the user.


If it’s an inverse square law you’re taking about, when you double the
distance you only deliver one quarter of the power.


Oops and thanks. I need a better proof reader. I've been using
inverse square law for about 55 years, but somehow managed to screw it
up today. Oddly, I can catch other peoples mistakes, but not my own.
Thanks again for the correction.


Hey. No problem. We all get to wear the hat. My nemesis is putting the
decimal point in the wrong place after calculating all the digits
correctly.

  #33  
Old November 11th 19, 02:02 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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On 11/10/2019 12:56 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 9 Nov 2019 15:08:15 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

You electrical guys ought to get busy on sending power without wires. I
mean, come on, didn't Tesla talk about that over 100 years ago?

...

(And don't brag about charging a cell phone with a little pad. Even the
Dukes of Hazzard could fly a car way farther than that!)


Inverse square law. Double the distance and you deliver only half the
power. What works in the near field (very close), fails in the far
field (far away). The RF power levels needed to make a cell phone
charger work at a distance is about the same as what it would take to
barbeque the user.


So, if properly calibrated, a cure for cold weather bicycling? Sign me up!

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #34  
Old November 11th 19, 04:23 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: 4,018
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On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 20:02:22 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

So, if properly calibrated, a cure for cold weather bicycling? Sign me up!


If all you want to do is stay warm, all you need is a big LiIon
battery pack, and electrically heated pants, jacket, and gloves. These
are all commonly available:
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=electric+heating+jacket
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=electric+heating+pants
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=electric+heating+gloves
There are far more efficient than remote RF heating or installing a
hibachi on your front bicycle rack. The amount of heat generated by
electrically heated clothing isn't much, but because it's generated
under an insulated layer of clothing, it doesn't need much to keep you
warm. If that doesn't do the trick, you can try electrically heated
bicycle saddle and handlebar grips.
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=heated+bicycle+handlebar+grips
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=heated+bicycle+saddle

If you want to be innovative, you might consider a bicycle saddle
equivalent of a water bed. Replace the saddle with a similar shaped
rubber, vinyl, or plastic bladder. Fill it with warm water, which is
kept heated by battery power. If it's as comfortable as my former
water bed, it might revolutionize bicycle riding comfort.

Most of the aforementioned heating devices are commercially available.
What's missing is a central power source for the bicycle. That's
where my "Wired Bicycle" (it's not "Weird Bicycle) can help. Instead
of motley assortment of individual battery packs for the various body
parts that require heating, power connectors could be available
anywhere along the DC power cable previously proposed to power brakes,
shifters, and gadgets.

Of course, running the main battery down to power the heaters might be
a bad idea if the same battery also powers the lights, brakes, and
shifters. Like many such similar applications, some kind of energy
management system with a coulomb counter might be needed to establish
priorities and monitoring.

Sorry, but dynamo power is probably insufficient for heating.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #35  
Old November 11th 19, 06:32 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
James[_8_]
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On 10/11/19 3:46 am, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 11:51:27 PM UTC, James wrote:
On 8/11/19 6:31 am, AMuzi wrote:
We all pause to slap our foreheads. WTF? These are patentable
designs??

https://bikerumor.com/2019/11/04/pat...es-for-others/




Oh how I long for all electric wireless brakes and gears.


Preferably radio controlled.


Yes, that is the meaning of "wireless" in my reply above.

--
JS
  #36  
Old November 11th 19, 06:34 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
James[_8_]
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On 10/11/19 6:52 am, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 10:51:19 +1100, James
wrote:

On 8/11/19 6:31 am, AMuzi wrote:
We all pause to slap our foreheads.
WTF? These are patentable designs??

https://bikerumor.com/2019/11/04/pat...es-for-others/


Oh how I long for all electric wireless brakes and gears.


Yep. However, the problem is not how you control the brakes and
gears. It's how you supply power to run the electronics, servos,
solenoids, sensors, and motors. If you run a power bus through the
frame (inside or outside the tubes), you still end up with a rats nest
of wires. You can power each device with a built in battery for each
device, but that creates multiple potential points of failure. Let's
say you have 18650 LiIon rechargeable cells in each brake lever (2),
shifter (1), front derailleur (1), rear derailleur (1), and rear
brakes (1). Total batteries = 6. Charging or replacing all 6
batteries before a ride can be an interesting exercise.

On the other foot, assume you have a power bus (2 wires) running all
over the bicycle. That's smaller and flatter than a hydraulic hose or
mechanical cable. That reduces 6 batteries to one, which could also
run the headlight, tail light, cell phone, etc. One battery is easier
to manage than 6 or more.

For control, wireless is possible, but methinks un-necessary. Any of
the bipolar two wire industrial buses or automotive CAN bus (ISO
11898-3 at 1Mbit/sec) can be used to control the brakes and gears.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fieldbus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN_bus
Some variations can multiplex the data onto the power wires, but I
don't like that because it's unipolar, not bipolar.

Anyway, if you're going to go electronic, you might as well go all
electronic.




If you're running power from a battery to all the components, you've
voided the intent of "wireless".

--
JS
  #37  
Old November 11th 19, 07:52 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: 4,018
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On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 16:34:40 +1100, James
wrote:

If you're running power from a battery to all the components, you've
voided the intent of "wireless".


Agreed. However, which would you consider more reliable? Wireless
brakes and shifting, or wired brakes and shifting?

Wireless is much less reliable because it's susceptible to
interference from outside sources, mutual interference from other
wireless devices on the bicycle or nearby bicycles, and for low power
devices, limited range. I can see wireless control for non-critical
devices such as lighting, media player, navigation, coffee warmer,
bicycle computer, and perhaps data collection. I would not use
wireless for brakes, shifting gears, or any other electrical device
that might produce a crash or other accident.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #38  
Old November 11th 19, 08:42 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 2,041
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On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 12:57:07 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:

But isn't it amazing what people will put up with for
aesthetics?

--
- Frank Krygowski


I personally am not familiar with the process. But I believe thousands or millions of people dye their hair. Purely for aesthetics. I see commercials on TV all the time. I assume they re-dye their hair every week or two or month or so. I don't know how often dye is required. But I know its not a one time thing. Old people hair naturally returns to its original gray, white, silver color. Compared to dying your hair, I'm guessing fishing internal cables through a bike frame once or twice a decade is fairly minor and immaterial.
  #39  
Old November 11th 19, 09:18 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
James[_8_]
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Posts: 6,153
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On 11/11/19 5:52 pm, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 16:34:40 +1100, James
wrote:

If you're running power from a battery to all the components, you've
voided the intent of "wireless".


Agreed. However, which would you consider more reliable? Wireless
brakes and shifting, or wired brakes and shifting?

Wireless is much less reliable because it's susceptible to
interference from outside sources, mutual interference from other
wireless devices on the bicycle or nearby bicycles, and for low power
devices, limited range. I can see wireless control for non-critical
devices such as lighting, media player, navigation, coffee warmer,
bicycle computer, and perhaps data collection. I would not use
wireless for brakes, shifting gears, or any other electrical device
that might produce a crash or other accident.


1. https://waic.avsi.aero/about/
2. https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/c...0070013704.pdf

I'm not asking for anything extraordinary, so it seems.

--
JS
  #40  
Old November 11th 19, 11:23 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
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Posts: 547
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On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 23:42:10 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 12:57:07 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:

But isn't it amazing what people will put up with for
aesthetics?

--
- Frank Krygowski


I personally am not familiar with the process. But I believe thousands or millions of people dye their hair. Purely for aesthetics. I see commercials on TV all the time. I assume they re-dye their hair every week or two or month or so. I don't know how often dye is required. But I know its not a one time thing. Old people hair naturally returns to its original gray, white, silver color. Compared to dying your hair, I'm guessing fishing internal cables through a bike frame once or twice a decade is fairly minor and immaterial.


Good Lord! You go to the Beauty Salon to get your hair dyed. Which
also gives you a chance to get up to date with all the current gossip
:-)

--

Cheers,

John B.
 




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