Creeping brake pad drag

On 11/26/2019 3:59 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:

For my road bike aka Gravel bike I have no desire for a electronic system,
but on the MTB which also is a much more expensive and complicated beastie
that also gets used in truly vile conditions which kills cables probably
due to the cable runs, I’d love to replace with electronic, though having
hack/bodge with fully enclosed cable etc that thus far is working!

A fully enclosed cable sounds like a practical solution to me.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/26/2019 3:59 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:

For my road bike aka Gravel bike I have no desire for a electronic system,
but on the MTB which also is a much more expensive and complicated beastie
that also gets used in truly vile conditions which kills cables probably
due to the cable runs, I’d love to replace with electronic, though having
hack/bodge with fully enclosed cable etc that thus far is working!

A fully enclosed cable sounds like a practical solution to me.


It’s a bit ugly but yes it’s certainly lasted longer than the last few
which sometimes only lasted one ride before water and gunk, seized the
cable. We shall see how it lasts this winter!

Roger Merriman

John B. writes:

On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 12:41:42 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 11/26/2019 4:42 AM, John B. wrote:


My wife's Honda has a "fob" to manage it. Lock and unlock the doors
and you can't start the engine unless the "fob" is in the car. I've
been sort of scratching my head and wondering, "what happens when the
battery in the fob dies?"

In practice, here's what happens, at least if I recall correctly. First,
the range of the radio decreases a bit, which may or may not be
noticeable. Eventually, you'll notice you need to be very close to the
car to get doors to unlock.

If the fob battery is really dead, the fob probably contains a hidden
old style door key. You can use that to get into the car. According to
our manual, in that condition you can still start the car, but only by
holding the fob up to a certain spot on the dash. But that will motivate
you to change the battery.

I don't believe that this Honda has key holes in the doors but I'll
look closely the next time I go out. But as they didn't supply a key
with the car that is immaterial anyway.

But essentially I can't see any advantage to the fob over a key lock.
I'm guessing here but I can imagine that it wouldn't be difficult to
build a device that would automatically cycle through all the possible
signals required to "unlock" the car so some enterprising chap could
drive it away. At least I had an air conditioner "fob" that died and I
found they sell "universal" fobs and can transmit all the possible
signals and you manually try them, one by one, until your air con
runs.

That's being done. "Keyless" entry cars are a major step back in
security, after years and years of improvement.

Here's a video that claims to be of an actual car theft:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=xkYuSpfdz1U


Changing the battery is pretty easy, except opening our car's fob is a
little tricky.

I worry a little more about somehow getting the fob submerged in water.
I'm sure it's intended to be water resistant; but I'm also sure it's not
as water resistant as an old style key.

I imagine that it is "water resistant" like my 3 dollar Chinese
wris****ch. Which so far keeps perfect time :-)
--
cheers,

John B.


--

On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 19:32:00 -0500, Radey Shouman
wrote:

John B. writes:

On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 12:41:42 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 11/26/2019 4:42 AM, John B. wrote:


My wife's Honda has a "fob" to manage it. Lock and unlock the doors
and you can't start the engine unless the "fob" is in the car. I've
been sort of scratching my head and wondering, "what happens when the
battery in the fob dies?"

In practice, here's what happens, at least if I recall correctly. First,
the range of the radio decreases a bit, which may or may not be
noticeable. Eventually, you'll notice you need to be very close to the
car to get doors to unlock.

If the fob battery is really dead, the fob probably contains a hidden
old style door key. You can use that to get into the car. According to
our manual, in that condition you can still start the car, but only by
holding the fob up to a certain spot on the dash. But that will motivate
you to change the battery.

I don't believe that this Honda has key holes in the doors but I'll
look closely the next time I go out. But as they didn't supply a key
with the car that is immaterial anyway.

But essentially I can't see any advantage to the fob over a key lock.
I'm guessing here but I can imagine that it wouldn't be difficult to
build a device that would automatically cycle through all the possible
signals required to "unlock" the car so some enterprising chap could
drive it away. At least I had an air conditioner "fob" that died and I
found they sell "universal" fobs and can transmit all the possible
signals and you manually try them, one by one, until your air con
runs.

That's being done. "Keyless" entry cars are a major step back in
security, after years and years of improvement.

Here's a video that claims to be of an actual car theft:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=xkYuSpfdz1U


The Capitalistic economic system in action. A need is detected and a
solution is marketed :-)

And thanks for those references.


Changing the battery is pretty easy, except opening our car's fob is a
little tricky.

I worry a little more about somehow getting the fob submerged in water.
I'm sure it's intended to be water resistant; but I'm also sure it's not
as water resistant as an old style key.

I imagine that it is "water resistant" like my 3 dollar Chinese
wris****ch. Which so far keeps perfect time :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

--
cheers,

John B.

Radey Shouman wrote:
John B. writes:

On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 12:41:42 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 11/26/2019 4:42 AM, John B. wrote:


My wife's Honda has a "fob" to manage it. Lock and unlock the doors
and you can't start the engine unless the "fob" is in the car. I've
been sort of scratching my head and wondering, "what happens when the
battery in the fob dies?"

In practice, here's what happens, at least if I recall correctly. First,
the range of the radio decreases a bit, which may or may not be
noticeable. Eventually, you'll notice you need to be very close to the
car to get doors to unlock.

If the fob battery is really dead, the fob probably contains a hidden
old style door key. You can use that to get into the car. According to
our manual, in that condition you can still start the car, but only by
holding the fob up to a certain spot on the dash. But that will motivate
you to change the battery.

I don't believe that this Honda has key holes in the doors but I'll
look closely the next time I go out. But as they didn't supply a key
with the car that is immaterial anyway.

But essentially I can't see any advantage to the fob over a key lock.
I'm guessing here but I can imagine that it wouldn't be difficult to
build a device that would automatically cycle through all the possible
signals required to "unlock" the car so some enterprising chap could
drive it away. At least I had an air conditioner "fob" that died and I
found they sell "universal" fobs and can transmit all the possible
signals and you manually try them, one by one, until your air con
runs.

That's being done. "Keyless" entry cars are a major step back in
security, after years and years of improvement.

Here's a video that claims to be of an actual car theft:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=xkYuSpfdz1U


Sounds like this.
https://www.wired.com/2017/04/just-p...can-steal-car/

The attackers have a pair of radios that bridge the fob and the car and
make them appear much closer than they are. In the video noted above, one
of the thieves holds a flat box against the outside of the house. This is
the high powered radio talking to the fob. It then relays the information
to another radio next to the car that unlocks and starts it.


Changing the battery is pretty easy, except opening our car's fob is a
little tricky.

I worry a little more about somehow getting the fob submerged in water.
I'm sure it's intended to be water resistant; but I'm also sure it's not
as water resistant as an old style key.

I imagine that it is "water resistant" like my 3 dollar Chinese
wris****ch. Which so far keeps perfect time :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

On 11/26/2019 5:56 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 12:41:42 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 11/26/2019 4:42 AM, John B. wrote:


My wife's Honda has a "fob" to manage it. Lock and unlock the doors
and you can't start the engine unless the "fob" is in the car. I've
been sort of scratching my head and wondering, "what happens when the
battery in the fob dies?"

In practice, here's what happens, at least if I recall correctly. First,
the range of the radio decreases a bit, which may or may not be
noticeable. Eventually, you'll notice you need to be very close to the
car to get doors to unlock.

If the fob battery is really dead, the fob probably contains a hidden
old style door key. You can use that to get into the car. According to
our manual, in that condition you can still start the car, but only by
holding the fob up to a certain spot on the dash. But that will motivate
you to change the battery.

I don't believe that this Honda has key holes in the doors but I'll
look closely the next time I go out. But as they didn't supply a key
with the car that is immaterial anyway.

But essentially I can't see any advantage to the fob over a key lock.
I'm guessing here but I can imagine that it wouldn't be difficult to
build a device that would automatically cycle through all the possible
signals required to "unlock" the car so some enterprising chap could
drive it away. At least I had an air conditioner "fob" that died and I
found they sell "universal" fobs and can transmit all the possible
signals and you manually try them, one by one, until your air con
runs.

I do have a cute little electronic gizmo that does exactly that with
televisions, transmitting the "off" code for one brand after another.
I've used it in certain doctor's waiting rooms, etc. where they assume
everybody always wants a TV blaring.

I typically use it when I'm the only one present, or when there are just
a few others who are obviously not watching. Nobody knew I was the cause
of the set turning off, but it didn't matter. Nobody ever complained.

However, I'm sure the receiver for your car's transmitter is much more
selective. For a parallel situation: In the early days of garage door
openers, there were relatively few codes and teenagers occasionally had
fun opening strangers' doors. But as I understand it, those days are
gone, at least with newer door controls. The code changes with every
use, and there are millions of codes.

I'm sure your car's receiver is at least as sophisticated as a modern
garage door opener.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 21:59:22 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 11/26/2019 5:56 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 12:41:42 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 11/26/2019 4:42 AM, John B. wrote:


My wife's Honda has a "fob" to manage it. Lock and unlock the doors
and you can't start the engine unless the "fob" is in the car. I've
been sort of scratching my head and wondering, "what happens when the
battery in the fob dies?"

In practice, here's what happens, at least if I recall correctly. First,
the range of the radio decreases a bit, which may or may not be
noticeable. Eventually, you'll notice you need to be very close to the
car to get doors to unlock.

If the fob battery is really dead, the fob probably contains a hidden
old style door key. You can use that to get into the car. According to
our manual, in that condition you can still start the car, but only by
holding the fob up to a certain spot on the dash. But that will motivate
you to change the battery.

I don't believe that this Honda has key holes in the doors but I'll
look closely the next time I go out. But as they didn't supply a key
with the car that is immaterial anyway.

But essentially I can't see any advantage to the fob over a key lock.
I'm guessing here but I can imagine that it wouldn't be difficult to
build a device that would automatically cycle through all the possible
signals required to "unlock" the car so some enterprising chap could
drive it away. At least I had an air conditioner "fob" that died and I
found they sell "universal" fobs and can transmit all the possible
signals and you manually try them, one by one, until your air con
runs.

I do have a cute little electronic gizmo that does exactly that with
televisions, transmitting the "off" code for one brand after another.
I've used it in certain doctor's waiting rooms, etc. where they assume
everybody always wants a TV blaring.

I typically use it when I'm the only one present, or when there are just
a few others who are obviously not watching. Nobody knew I was the cause
of the set turning off, but it didn't matter. Nobody ever complained.

However, I'm sure the receiver for your car's transmitter is much more
selective. For a parallel situation: In the early days of garage door
openers, there were relatively few codes and teenagers occasionally had
fun opening strangers' doors. But as I understand it, those days are
gone, at least with newer door controls. The code changes with every
use, and there are millions of codes.

I'm sure your car's receiver is at least as sophisticated as a modern
garage door opener.

I checked the car doors and lo and behold the front doors, at least
the driver's door, has a key slot, which I had never noticed. Probably
as I have never driven this car as it is "my wife's car" as opposed to
"my truck" :-)

But from other posts it does appear that the keyless idea is no more
secure then a key and possible even less, and to my mind not as
"handy" as a metal key. My pickup keys are two keys on a keyring with
several other keys. Get out of the truck, lock the door(s) and put the
keys in my pocket . The Honda has a big glob of metal that doesn't fit
comfortably in my pants pocket :-(
--
cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 05:56:02 +0700, John B.
wrote:

I don't believe that this Honda has key holes in the doors but I'll
look closely the next time I go out. But as they didn't supply a key
with the car that is immaterial anyway.

It's hidden inside the fob.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

On Tuesday, November 26, 2019 at 10:22:27 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 21:59:22 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 11/26/2019 5:56 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 12:41:42 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 11/26/2019 4:42 AM, John B. wrote:


My wife's Honda has a "fob" to manage it. Lock and unlock the doors
and you can't start the engine unless the "fob" is in the car. I've
been sort of scratching my head and wondering, "what happens when the
battery in the fob dies?"

In practice, here's what happens, at least if I recall correctly. First,
the range of the radio decreases a bit, which may or may not be
noticeable. Eventually, you'll notice you need to be very close to the
car to get doors to unlock.

If the fob battery is really dead, the fob probably contains a hidden
old style door key. You can use that to get into the car. According to
our manual, in that condition you can still start the car, but only by
holding the fob up to a certain spot on the dash. But that will motivate
you to change the battery.

I don't believe that this Honda has key holes in the doors but I'll
look closely the next time I go out. But as they didn't supply a key
with the car that is immaterial anyway.

But essentially I can't see any advantage to the fob over a key lock.
I'm guessing here but I can imagine that it wouldn't be difficult to
build a device that would automatically cycle through all the possible
signals required to "unlock" the car so some enterprising chap could
drive it away. At least I had an air conditioner "fob" that died and I
found they sell "universal" fobs and can transmit all the possible
signals and you manually try them, one by one, until your air con
runs.

I do have a cute little electronic gizmo that does exactly that with
televisions, transmitting the "off" code for one brand after another.
I've used it in certain doctor's waiting rooms, etc. where they assume
everybody always wants a TV blaring.

I typically use it when I'm the only one present, or when there are just
a few others who are obviously not watching. Nobody knew I was the cause
of the set turning off, but it didn't matter. Nobody ever complained.

However, I'm sure the receiver for your car's transmitter is much more
selective. For a parallel situation: In the early days of garage door
openers, there were relatively few codes and teenagers occasionally had
fun opening strangers' doors. But as I understand it, those days are
gone, at least with newer door controls. The code changes with every
use, and there are millions of codes.

I'm sure your car's receiver is at least as sophisticated as a modern
garage door opener.

I checked the car doors and lo and behold the front doors, at least
the driver's door, has a key slot, which I had never noticed.

See? All your years of reading rec.bicycles.tech have suddenly become worth the
trouble! ;-)

But from other posts it does appear that the keyless idea is no more
secure then a key and possible even less, and to my mind not as
"handy" as a metal key. My pickup keys are two keys on a keyring with
several other keys. Get out of the truck, lock the door(s) and put the
keys in my pocket . The Honda has a big glob of metal that doesn't fit
comfortably in my pants pocket :-(

I agree about the bulk. And if security really becomes a worry, I wonder if a
Honda dealer can disable the remote entry key. The electronics on our Mazda are
customizable to a degree. For example, the car was sold with an oil change
monitoring system that was turned off by default. I had the dealer turn it on.

Interestingly, it took them 45 minutes to figure out how to do that. Apparently
I was the first customer to ask.

- Frank Krygowski

On Tuesday, November 26, 2019 at 10:57:09 PM UTC-5, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 05:56:02 +0700, John B.
wrote:

I don't believe that this Honda has key holes in the doors but I'll
look closely the next time I go out. But as they didn't supply a key
with the car that is immaterial anyway.

It's hidden inside the fob.

It was on our car, too. One of the reasons I actually read the manual.

- Frank Krygowski