Dropper posts for every bike?

John B. wrote:
On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 23:13:14 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 12:44:11 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 14:03:33 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Tuesday, December 3, 2019 at 6:14:34 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/3/2019 5:54 AM, Duane wrote:


I used DT friction shifters for years. I can’t imagine anyone preferring
them over brifters but whatever floats their boat.

Like Eddie Merckx said (paraphrasing) it doesn’t matter how long or short
you ride. Or how fast or slow. Just ride. I would also add, and STFU
criticizing other riders preferences.

Oh, good grief!

As I've said dozens of times: This is a _discussion_ group. We discuss
things. If you're so insecure that you can't tolerate any disagreement
with your choices, why would you enter a discussion about your choices?

Furthermore, if you pretend instead to defend _others'_ free choices,
perhaps you should stop sniping at only those who differ from you.

Contrary to certain posters' whining, I don't say "You shouldn't use
[whatever] equipment." But I do frequently point out that for much
equipment, the near-magical claims are exaggerated, or irrelevant to
most people's riding.

And I think I have a tendency to quantify things. Quantification
shouldn't be sneered at in a "tech" group.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Wow, wow. Frank you started this thread. Read your first post. What
was your intention when you wrote
'If they do, it won't be long before anyone who uses an ordinary seatpost
will be scorned as a luddite. '? Trying to be funny? What did you
quantify? In my world it is a silly insinuation.

Lou

I won't comment on Franks intent but read the resulting answers. It
appears that without, at the minimum, STI brake-shifters it is nearly
impossible to enjoy riding a bicycle these days.

No one said that only that it makes a ride more pleasant or more safe in
some situation (of road on slippery, bumpy and twisting single track for instance)



Has cycling been reduced to a dollars and cents level where riding a
$4,000 bicycle (as one poster has frequently mentioned) results in a
more enjoyable ride?

For some it does for some it doesn't. Lets talk about what people spend
on cars, clothes, houses, gardens etc.

Yes, of course. After all buying a big car certainly shows the world
just how big a man you are.... even though you paid a dollar down and
a dollar a week for the rest of your life. And of course, the neighbor
who bought that little imported car for cash is demonstrating just how
insignificant he is.

--
cheers,

John B.

Hey! A dollar down and a dollar a week for the rest of your life is a
screaming deal for a new car. Where do I sign up?

On 12/4/2019 7:25 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

WTF? Even if I had some uber-bike, I don't think most of the world would know or care. It's not like having a Ferrari in the driveway. I don't have discs on my commuter because they're a status symbol or attract chicks. I didn't get them as part of a mid-life crisis. I just like the way they stop.

What? Are you trying to say that women in Portland aren't more attracted
to men that have bicycles with disc brakes versus men with bicycles that
have rim brakes or drum brakes? Do you have any cites or references for
your claim?

My wife got really upset when I put disc brakes on my mountain bike,
claiming that I must be planning something nefarious. I had to go out
and buy her a mountain bike with disc brakes just to even things out.

On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 8:20:52 AM UTC-8, sms wrote:
On 12/4/2019 7:25 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

WTF? Even if I had some uber-bike, I don't think most of the world would know or care. It's not like having a Ferrari in the driveway. I don't have discs on my commuter because they're a status symbol or attract chicks. I didn't get them as part of a mid-life crisis. I just like the way they stop.

What? Are you trying to say that women in Portland aren't more attracted
to men that have bicycles with disc brakes versus men with bicycles that
have rim brakes or drum brakes? Do you have any cites or references for
your claim?

My wife got really upset when I put disc brakes on my mountain bike,
claiming that I must be planning something nefarious. I had to go out
and buy her a mountain bike with disc brakes just to even things out.

Attracting chicks would require a trailer with a puppy in it -- or better yet, a 10 foot long cargo bike with a front carrier with two puppies in it. I bet this guy is a total chick magnet: https://media.treehugger.com/assets/...-Noordwijk.jpg If I were trolling chicks with my super-cute puppies, I'd definitely go with the eBike version so I could catch the fit chicks.

Speaking of puppies (of which there are too many), people of modest means may spend more on a puppy than a decent bike. https://thehappypuppysite.com/how-mu...-a-puppy-cost/

-- Jay Beattie.

On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 16:01:24 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

John B. wrote:

Yes, of course. After all buying a big car certainly shows the world
just how big a man you are.... even though you paid a dollar down and
a dollar a week for the rest of your life. And of course, the neighbor
who bought that little imported car for cash is demonstrating just how
insignificant he is.
John B.

Hey! A dollar down and a dollar a week for the rest of your life is a
screaming deal for a new car. Where do I sign up?

Methinks you forgot the cost of insurance, consumables (gas, oil,
tires), repairs, registration, tolls, etc.

Like an automobile or bicycle, we don't drive or ride them. We wear
them. We present to the world the image we want to project. Our
choice of transportation is simply a part of that image. In the
distant past, I owned some rental houses and managed my father's
apartment building. When faced with a prospective tenant, I needed a
quick way to determine "what kind of people are they". My best
indicator was to look at and inside their vehicles. If the vehicle
was clean, well maintained, devoid of junk, and fairly new, I would
expect the rental or apartment to cared for in much the same manner.
However, if it was a rolling garbage dump, the rental or apartment was
likely to look quite similar. I've never needed to make the same
determination for someone arriving on a bicycle, but would probably
use the same method. If the bicycle looked like a bad case of
deferred maintenance, I would be less likely to rent to the rider than
to someone arriving on a well maintained and fairly modern bicycle.
For what it's worth, I negotiated the purchase of one rental while
standing on roller skates in the driveway, and my Subaru looks like a
service truck, so there are exceptions.

Conspicuous consumption and "keeping up with the Jones's" were the
lifestyle of the 1950's, where impressing friends and neighbors with
large expenditures was the norm. That sold quite a few cars, larger
homes, manicured lawns, but probably no bicycles. The need for
perpetual expensive upgrades was moderated by rampant inflation, but
still persists in some areas. In bicycling, it's either perpetual
upgrades to a more expensive bicycle, or the accumulation of multiple
bicycles (only one of which is rideable). I'm it in the latter
category. Both suffer from the same disease, but a $4,000 bicycle
provides a more opulent impression than a garage full of salvaged
bicycles.

So, if you're trying to impress the ladies, forget about technical
gadgets and gizmos. Unless they're also into cycling, they won't
recognize a dropper seat post. They also won't know the difference
between an expensive carbon fiber frame, and a big box store import.
All they'll notice is that you might too impoverished to afford an
automobile and are relegated to using a bicycle for transportation.
However, if you must justify the purchase of a dropper seat post, disk
brakes, or electronic shifting/braking, perhaps leaving the price tags
visible on the equipment might help. If that fails, wrap and glue
some fresh dollar bills to your frame, and clear coat it. If your
$4,000 investment is intended to attract attention, that will surely
help.







--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 12/4/2019 10:29 AM, wrote:
On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 4:24:52 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/4/2019 9:14 AM, sms wrote:
On 12/3/2019 11:13 PM, wrote:

snip

For some it does for some it doesn't. Lets talk about what people
spend on cars, clothes, houses, gardens etc.

Probably We all buy things that others question the value of. If someone
wants to spend their discretionary income on a fancier car, nicer
clothes, a bigger house, the most expensive smart phone, a beautiful
garden, $200 meal, costly jewelry, or a $4000 bicycle, it's fine. At
least it's something tangible that they enjoy.

Yes, that's fine.

But if someone comes onto a bicycle technical discussion group and says
electronic shifting is much more reliable than cable-operated shifting,
that is a statement about facts, not preferences. And that should be
open to discussion.

No one is saying that. You making things up again. Ah never mind...

First, you missed the "if." Second, IIRC, someone here likened
electronic shifting to electronic engine control, as opposed to setting
points, etc. They said modern engine control was much more reliable, and
said something about electronic shifting could do the same. Maybe that
wasn't you, but something like that was said.

My view is that electronic shifting can't improve reliability very much,
because cable operated shifting is already too reliable.

Nonetheless, my statement four paragraphs above said _IF_ someone makes
such a claim, we should be able to discuss it. Do you disagree?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 12/4/2019 12:32 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

I owned some rental houses and managed my father's
apartment building. When faced with a prospective tenant, I needed a
quick way to determine "what kind of people are they". My best
indicator was to look at and inside their vehicles. If the vehicle
was clean, well maintained, devoid of junk, and fairly new, I would
expect the rental or apartment to cared for in much the same manner.
However, if it was a rolling garbage dump, the rental or apartment was
likely to look quite similar. I've never needed to make the same
determination for someone arriving on a bicycle, but would probably
use the same method. If the bicycle looked like a bad case of
deferred maintenance, I would be less likely to rent to the rider than
to someone arriving on a well maintained and fairly modern bicycle.

What if someone arrived on a well maintained but old bicycle? That would
probably be how I'd show up.

So, if you're trying to impress the ladies, forget about technical
gadgets and gizmos. Unless they're also into cycling...

Andrew had an excellent tale bookmarked, a guy selling a Campy bottom
bracket by telling how it would make you irresistible to the ladies.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 11:04:34 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/4/2019 10:29 AM, wrote:
On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 4:24:52 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/4/2019 9:14 AM, sms wrote:
On 12/3/2019 11:13 PM, wrote:

snip

For some it does for some it doesn't. Lets talk about what people
spend on cars, clothes, houses, gardens etc.

Probably We all buy things that others question the value of. If someone
wants to spend their discretionary income on a fancier car, nicer
clothes, a bigger house, the most expensive smart phone, a beautiful
garden, $200 meal, costly jewelry, or a $4000 bicycle, it's fine. At
least it's something tangible that they enjoy.

Yes, that's fine.

But if someone comes onto a bicycle technical discussion group and says
electronic shifting is much more reliable than cable-operated shifting,
that is a statement about facts, not preferences. And that should be
open to discussion.

No one is saying that. You making things up again. Ah never mind...

First, you missed the "if." Second, IIRC, someone here likened
electronic shifting to electronic engine control, as opposed to setting
points, etc. They said modern engine control was much more reliable, and
said something about electronic shifting could do the same. Maybe that
wasn't you, but something like that was said.

OK and it wasn't me.


My view is that electronic shifting can't improve reliability very much,
because cable operated shifting is already too reliable.

My view is that the reliability of electronic shifting is at a level that this can't be the reason not to choose for electronic shifting.

Nonetheless, my statement four paragraphs above said _IF_ someone makes
such a claim, we should be able to discuss it. Do you disagree?

No and I never had a problem with that. On the other hand in the second sentence of your initial post you make already a false assumption. I don't know why you do that.

Lou

On 12/4/2019 4:12 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/4/2019 12:32 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

I owned some rental houses and managed my father's
apartment building. When faced with a prospective tenant,
I needed a
quick way to determine "what kind of people are they". My
best
indicator was to look at and inside their vehicles. If
the vehicle
was clean, well maintained, devoid of junk, and fairly
new, I would
expect the rental or apartment to cared for in much the
same manner.
However, if it was a rolling garbage dump, the rental or
apartment was
likely to look quite similar. I've never needed to make
the same
determination for someone arriving on a bicycle, but would
probably
use the same method. If the bicycle looked like a bad
case of
deferred maintenance, I would be less likely to rent to
the rider than
to someone arriving on a well maintained and fairly modern
bicycle.

What if someone arrived on a well maintained but old
bicycle? That would probably be how I'd show up.

So, if you're trying to impress the ladies, forget about
technical
gadgets and gizmos. Unless they're also into cycling...

Andrew had an excellent tale bookmarked, a guy selling a
Campy bottom bracket by telling how it would make you
irresistible to the ladies.



When sending out a particularly beautiful Gunnar:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/gun0907a.jpg

I flippantly said, "Pretty bike, it's a chick magnet."

email from customer:
"Gunnar First Ride Report:
I got a ride in before the rain hit and it was AWESOME.
Thank you so much for guiding me through the process of
getting this bike.
Brian
PS Andy was right apparently, it's a chick magnet. At a stop
light on my way home with it on top of my car, a woman
rolled her window down and chatted me up about the bike.
Then asked if I'd want to take a ride sometime and gave me
her phone number?!?!!?!?!!!!"

One wonders what more an electronic shift might elicit!


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 17:12:14 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 12/4/2019 12:32 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
...I've never needed to make the same
determination for someone arriving on a bicycle, but would probably
use the same method. If the bicycle looked like a bad case of
deferred maintenance, I would be less likely to rent to the rider than
to someone arriving on a well maintained and fairly modern bicycle.

What if someone arrived on a well maintained but old bicycle? That would
probably be how I'd show up.

As I said above, you would qualify. It's a tough judgment call. Old
and well maintained could mean your are frugal and spend your money
wisely. However, it could also mean that you're impoverished and
can't afford a car, insurance, registration, gas, etc. With a car,
it's equal parts of how the car looks, and how the contents look. With
a bicycle, there are no contents (unless you're towing a trailer).

I guess I should mention that if I applied for the rental, I would
refuse to rent to myself.

So, if you're trying to impress the ladies, forget about technical
gadgets and gizmos. Unless they're also into cycling...

Andrew had an excellent tale bookmarked, a guy selling a Campy bottom
bracket by telling how it would make you irresistible to the ladies.

That might work with women who know what are Campy bicycle components.
I tend to hang around the medical professionals. To them, Campy means
campylobacter, which is NOT what I would want to be advertising:
https://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/food-poisoning/what-is-campylobacter-infection

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 07:34:10 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 11:11:50 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 23:13:14 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 12:44:11 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 14:03:33 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Tuesday, December 3, 2019 at 6:14:34 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/3/2019 5:54 AM, Duane wrote:


I used DT friction shifters for years. I can’t imagine anyone preferring
them over brifters but whatever floats their boat.

Like Eddie Merckx said (paraphrasing) it doesn’t matter how long or short
you ride. Or how fast or slow. Just ride. I would also add, and STFU
criticizing other riders preferences.

Oh, good grief!

As I've said dozens of times: This is a _discussion_ group. We discuss
things. If you're so insecure that you can't tolerate any disagreement
with your choices, why would you enter a discussion about your choices?

Furthermore, if you pretend instead to defend _others'_ free choices,
perhaps you should stop sniping at only those who differ from you.

Contrary to certain posters' whining, I don't say "You shouldn't use
[whatever] equipment." But I do frequently point out that for much
equipment, the near-magical claims are exaggerated, or irrelevant to
most people's riding.

And I think I have a tendency to quantify things. Quantification
shouldn't be sneered at in a "tech" group.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Wow, wow. Frank you started this thread. Read your first post. What was your intention when you wrote
'If they do, it won't be long before anyone who uses an ordinary seatpost
will be scorned as a luddite. '? Trying to be funny? What did you quantify? In my world it is a silly insinuation.

Lou

I won't comment on Franks intent but read the resulting answers. It
appears that without, at the minimum, STI brake-shifters it is nearly
impossible to enjoy riding a bicycle these days.

No one said that only that it makes a ride more pleasant or more safe in some situation (of road on slippery, bumpy and twisting single track for instance)



Has cycling been reduced to a dollars and cents level where riding a
$4,000 bicycle (as one poster has frequently mentioned) results in a
more enjoyable ride?

For some it does for some it doesn't. Lets talk about what people spend on cars, clothes, houses, gardens etc.

Yes, of course. After all buying a big car certainly shows the world
just how big a man you are.... even though you paid a dollar down and
a dollar a week for the rest of your life. And of course, the neighbor
who bought that little imported car for cash is demonstrating just how
insignificant he is.

--
cheers,

John B.

If that what comes to your mind first when you meet people that have a more expensive/bigger house, car or whatever I pity you. Try to be happy for them it makes you a nicer person. A mercedes/audi are really nice cars to drive, a nice garden is really pretty to look at.

Lou

You mean that a Mercedes or an Audi are easier to drive? Carry more
cargo? Do they steer easier? Maybe the brake pedal takes less pressure
to stop the car? Or what? Just what is "nicer"?

And before you ask, yes I have driven Mercedes, both automobile and
trucks.

But, I gather from reading your post that before you leaped into the
discussion you either didn't read what I posted, or you didn't
understand what I wrote. Ah well, some people are like that.
--
cheers,

John B.