Dropper posts for every bike?

On Thu, 05 Dec 2019 02:11:35 -0800, sms wrote:

On 12/4/2019 7:25 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

BTW, I was at the racks early yesterday and there were only seven bikes
in my little rack segment -- six with discs, and all the bikes were
totally mid-fi and relatively inexpensive. In the wet PNW, discs are
clearly dominating. Yes, I know -- it is all part of some giant
conspiracy by Big Disc to subjugate the masses with disc brakes. O.K.,
blame me. I bought them years ago and gave strength to our oppressing
disc overlords.

Anyone not using disc brakes is standing in the way of human progress.

That would only apply if they were not very good.

On Thu, 5 Dec 2019 02:11:35 -0800, sms
wrote:

On 12/4/2019 7:25 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

BTW, I was at the racks early yesterday and there were only seven bikes in my little rack segment -- six with discs, and all the bikes were totally mid-fi and relatively inexpensive. In the wet PNW, discs are clearly dominating. Yes, I know -- it is all part of some giant conspiracy by Big Disc to subjugate the masses with disc brakes. O.K., blame me. I bought them years ago and gave strength to our oppressing disc overlords.

Anyone not using disc brakes is standing in the way of human progress.

But human progress has long passed the simple disc and caliper brakes
used on a bicycle. Modern aircraft use multi plate brakes. In fact
multi plate brakes were used at least as far back as the F-4, and
perhaps earlier, which seems to have first gone into service in the
early 1960's.
--
cheers,

John B.

On 12/5/2019 12:06 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:
John B. wrote:
On Thu, 5 Dec 2019 00:52:50 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

Duane wrote:
wrote:
On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 11:11:50 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 23:13:14 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 12:44:11 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 14:03:33 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Tuesday, December 3, 2019 at 6:14:34 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/3/2019 5:54 AM, Duane wrote:


I used DT friction shifters for years. I canÂ’t imagine anyone preferring
them over brifters but whatever floats their boat.

Like Eddie Merckx said (paraphrasing) it doesnÂ’t matter how long or short
you ride. Or how fast or slow. Just ride. I would also add, and STFU
criticizing other riders preferences.

Oh, good grief!

As I've said dozens of times: This is a _discussion_ group. We discuss
things. If you're so insecure that you can't tolerate any disagreement
with your choices, why would you enter a discussion about your choices?

Furthermore, if you pretend instead to defend _others'_ free choices,
perhaps you should stop sniping at only those who differ from you.

Contrary to certain posters' whining, I don't say "You shouldn't use
[whatever] equipment." But I do frequently point out that for much
equipment, the near-magical claims are exaggerated, or irrelevant to
most people's riding.

And I think I have a tendency to quantify things. Quantification
shouldn't be sneered at in a "tech" group.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Wow, wow. Frank you started this thread. Read your first post. What
was your intention when you wrote
'If they do, it won't be long before anyone who uses an ordinary seatpost
will be scorned as a luddite. '? Trying to be funny? What did you
quantify? In my world it is a silly insinuation.

Lou

I won't comment on Franks intent but read the resulting answers. It
appears that without, at the minimum, STI brake-shifters it is nearly
impossible to enjoy riding a bicycle these days.

No one said that only that it makes a ride more pleasant or more safe
in some situation (of road on slippery, bumpy and twisting single track for instance)



Has cycling been reduced to a dollars and cents level where riding a
$4,000 bicycle (as one poster has frequently mentioned) results in a
more enjoyable ride?

For some it does for some it doesn't. Lets talk about what people spend
on cars, clothes, houses, gardens etc.

Yes, of course. After all buying a big car certainly shows the world
just how big a man you are.... even though you paid a dollar down and
a dollar a week for the rest of your life. And of course, the neighbor
who bought that little imported car for cash is demonstrating just how
insignificant he is.

--
cheers,

John B.

If that what comes to your mind first when you meet people that have a more
expensive/bigger house, car or whatever I pity you. Try to be happy for
them it makes you a nicer person. A mercedes/audi are really nice cars
to drive, a nice garden is really pretty to look at.

Lou


+1

There arenÂ’t enough people around who understand MaslowÂ’s hierarchy of
needs and how that applies to disposable income.

The interpretation of "disposable income" appears to be, "The money
you have left over from your salary after you've paid federal, state,
and local taxes".
https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-d...income-4156858
I had always assumed that it meant after taxes, food and lodging, and
perhaps children's essentials, if any.

But to live in accord with Maslow one must only buy that bottle of
peanut butter, a loaf of Wonder Bread and a padlock for the door(s)
and quit beating your wife. The rest of the money can go for the down
payment on the new Mercedes.

Hooray, Hooray, look at me everybody, I got a Merkadese in my drive
(I'll buy the gas next payday )

And of course, washing and waxing the new car fulfils my
self-fulfillment needs so there you have it. 100% in accordance with
the Maslow rules :-)
--
cheers,

John B.



Come on, John. Don’t be a smarty pants. If I’ve got a roof over my head and
a million in the bank, I may choose other means to achieve fulfillment than
if I have a roof over my head and $2 in my pocket. The main point that
people are dancing around here is whether they feel that a certain
technology is worth paying list price for. I’m currently running a 3x9 STI
setup with canti brakes, simply because I do not feel that I will get
adequate incremental satisfaction per dollar by going with disks and Di2.
However, if there was another zero on all of my bank balances, I might give
it a try. What makes Lou happy is overkill for Frank. Chalo and Jay are on
different paths to enlightenment, but it doesn’t mean that their personal
choices don’t get them where they wanna go. Now, I personally believe that
there is excessive marketing going on and that a lot of new stuff is being
sold simply because “we can’t sell you something that you already own�. I
also think that at the bleeding edge, the incremental cost of innovation is
pretty darn high, but without early adopters, there’s nobody subsidizing
the more affordable mass market products.

+1

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

sms wrote:
On 12/4/2019 7:25 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

BTW, I was at the racks early yesterday and there were only seven bikes
in my little rack segment -- six with discs, and all the bikes were
totally mid-fi and relatively inexpensive. In the wet PNW, discs are
clearly dominating. Yes, I know -- it is all part of some giant
conspiracy by Big Disc to subjugate the masses with disc brakes. O.K.,
blame me. I bought them years ago and gave strength to our oppressing disc overlords.

Anyone not using disc brakes is standing in the way of human progress.



Isn’t the whole point of brakes to impede human progress?

On 12/5/2019 1:06 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:


Come on, John. Don’t be a smarty pants. If I’ve got a roof over my head and
a million in the bank, I may choose other means to achieve fulfillment than
if I have a roof over my head and $2 in my pocket. The main point that
people are dancing around here is whether they feel that a certain
technology is worth paying list price for. I’m currently running a 3x9 STI
setup with canti brakes, simply because I do not feel that I will get
adequate incremental satisfaction per dollar by going with disks and Di2.
However, if there was another zero on all of my bank balances, I might give
it a try. What makes Lou happy is overkill for Frank. Chalo and Jay are on
different paths to enlightenment, but it doesn’t mean that their personal
choices don’t get them where they wanna go. Now, I personally believe that
there is excessive marketing going on and that a lot of new stuff is being
sold simply because “we can’t sell you something that you already own�. I
also think that at the bleeding edge, the incremental cost of innovation is
pretty darn high, but without early adopters, there’s nobody subsidizing
the more affordable mass market products.

+1, with the addition of my usual comment: We should be able to discuss
the benefits and detriments of each marketed "advancement."


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 12/4/2019 10:11 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 21:32:32 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 12/4/2019 5:22 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/4/2019 4:12 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Andrew had an excellent tale bookmarked, a guy selling a
Campy bottom bracket by telling how it would make you
irresistible to the ladies.

When sending out a particularly beautiful Gunnar:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/gun0907a.jpg

I flippantly said, "Pretty bike, it's a chick magnet."

email from customer:
"Gunnar First Ride Report:
I got a ride in before the rain hit and it was AWESOME. Thank you so
much for guiding me through the process of getting this bike.
Brian
PS Andy was right apparently, it's a chick magnet. At a stop light on my
way home with it on top of my car, a woman rolled her window down and
chatted me up about the bike. Then asked if I'd want to take a ride
sometime and gave me her phone number?!?!!?!?!!!!"

I've told this before, but: Maybe 5 years ago I built up a nice, custom
Reynolds 531 frame into a 3 speed about-town bike. I used almost
entirely parts I had in my junk boxes. I did spend $7 for a set of alloy
upright handlebars, and a few bucks at Staples for a chrome desktop wire
basket, which I zip-tied onto my front Blackburn rack. That's where
packages go.

Anyway, not long after the bike was completed, I was riding it home from
the library. A gaggle of teenage girls on the sidewalk shouted "We like
your bike!" Then one of them said "It's sexy!"

I have no explanation for that.

And you remembered it for all these years :-)

Hey, you'd have remembered if it happened to you!


But did you tell your wife?
(and what did she say ?)

We both laughed about it.



--
- Frank Krygowski

On Thursday, December 5, 2019 at 11:04:42 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/5/2019 1:06 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:


Come on, John. Don’t be a smarty pants. If I’ve got a roof over my head and
a million in the bank, I may choose other means to achieve fulfillment than
if I have a roof over my head and $2 in my pocket. The main point that
people are dancing around here is whether they feel that a certain
technology is worth paying list price for. I’m currently running a 3x9 STI
setup with canti brakes, simply because I do not feel that I will get
adequate incremental satisfaction per dollar by going with disks and Di2.
However, if there was another zero on all of my bank balances, I might give
it a try. What makes Lou happy is overkill for Frank. Chalo and Jay are on
different paths to enlightenment, but it doesn’t mean that their personal
choices don’t get them where they wanna go. Now, I personally believe that
there is excessive marketing going on and that a lot of new stuff is being
sold simply because “we can’t sell you something that you already own�. I
also think that at the bleeding edge, the incremental cost of innovation is
pretty darn high, but without early adopters, there’s nobody subsidizing
the more affordable mass market products.

+1, with the addition of my usual comment: We should be able to discuss
the benefits and detriments of each marketed "advancement."


Hopefully in an informed way after having tried said "advancement."

-- Jay Beattie.

Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/5/2019 1:06 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:


Come on, John. Don’t be a smarty pants. If I’ve got a roof over my head and
a million in the bank, I may choose other means to achieve fulfillment than
if I have a roof over my head and $2 in my pocket. The main point that
people are dancing around here is whether they feel that a certain
technology is worth paying list price for. I’m currently running a 3x9 STI
setup with canti brakes, simply because I do not feel that I will get
adequate incremental satisfaction per dollar by going with disks and Di2.
However, if there was another zero on all of my bank balances, I might give
it a try. What makes Lou happy is overkill for Frank. Chalo and Jay are on
different paths to enlightenment, but it doesn’t mean that their personal
choices don’t get them where they wanna go. Now, I personally believe that
there is excessive marketing going on and that a lot of new stuff is being
sold simply because “we can’t sell you something that you already own�. I
also think that at the bleeding edge, the incremental cost of innovation is
pretty darn high, but without early adopters, there’s nobody subsidizing
the more affordable mass market products.

+1, with the addition of my usual comment: We should be able to discuss
the benefits and detriments of each marketed "advancement."



With, of course the caveat that “the benefits and detriments are not
constant across all users�. Yeah, I know, that’s a little hard for
engineers to swallow, but if I can do it, so can you.

On 12/5/2019 2:09 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, December 5, 2019 at 11:04:42 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/5/2019 1:06 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:


Come on, John. Don’t be a smarty pants. If I’ve got a roof over my head and
a million in the bank, I may choose other means to achieve fulfillment than
if I have a roof over my head and $2 in my pocket. The main point that
people are dancing around here is whether they feel that a certain
technology is worth paying list price for. I’m currently running a 3x9 STI
setup with canti brakes, simply because I do not feel that I will get
adequate incremental satisfaction per dollar by going with disks and Di2.
However, if there was another zero on all of my bank balances, I might give
it a try. What makes Lou happy is overkill for Frank. Chalo and Jay are on
different paths to enlightenment, but it doesn’t mean that their personal
choices don’t get them where they wanna go. Now, I personally believe that
there is excessive marketing going on and that a lot of new stuff is being
sold simply because “we can’t sell you something that you already own�. I
also think that at the bleeding edge, the incremental cost of innovation is
pretty darn high, but without early adopters, there’s nobody subsidizing
the more affordable mass market products.

+1, with the addition of my usual comment: We should be able to discuss
the benefits and detriments of each marketed "advancement."


Hopefully in an informed way after having tried said "advancement."

Really?

In (say) the 1880s, when bicycles were changing and improving rapidly,
that may have made sense to evaluate different springing systems, wildly
different frame designs, brand new pneumatic tires, etc. But now
bicycles are an extremely mature technology. We're deep into diminishing
returns. In fact, this is the era of negligible returns.

I don't have to try the next aerodynamic frame to know that the benefits
of a tiny reduction in aero drag are negligible. I haven't ridden an 11
cog bike, but based on my experience owning from 5 up to 9 and briefly
trying a 10, I don't need to ride an 11 to know it won't transform my
experience. I understand physics well enough to know that yet another
bottom bracket standard, 8% stiffer than the last, will be undetectable
in my riding.

Decades ago, an article in (IIRC) Scientific American discussed bike
technology. One interesting part was the computation of the performance
of the "ultimate" conventional bike - one with zero mass and zero aero
drag. The point was, it would not be much faster than what we have. The
mass and drag of the rider already dominate. Performance is not going to
improve much, and that's been shown by historical data from the grand
tours.

I already have so few problems (braking, shifting, etc.) that it's hard
to imagine any great mechanical improvement. If I could choose the
direction of the research efforts, it would be toward greater climate
comfort. It's cold out there! And rain still sucks when riding,
especially in halfway presentable clothing!



--
- Frank Krygowski

On 12/5/2019 4:18 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/5/2019 1:06 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:


Come on, John. Don’t be a smarty pants. If I’ve got a roof over my head and
a million in the bank, I may choose other means to achieve fulfillment than
if I have a roof over my head and $2 in my pocket. The main point that
people are dancing around here is whether they feel that a certain
technology is worth paying list price for. I’m currently running a 3x9 STI
setup with canti brakes, simply because I do not feel that I will get
adequate incremental satisfaction per dollar by going with disks and Di2.
However, if there was another zero on all of my bank balances, I might give
it a try. What makes Lou happy is overkill for Frank. Chalo and Jay are on
different paths to enlightenment, but it doesn’t mean that their personal
choices don’t get them where they wanna go. Now, I personally believe that
there is excessive marketing going on and that a lot of new stuff is being
sold simply because “we can’t sell you something that you already own�. I
also think that at the bleeding edge, the incremental cost of innovation is
pretty darn high, but without early adopters, there’s nobody subsidizing
the more affordable mass market products.

+1, with the addition of my usual comment: We should be able to discuss
the benefits and detriments of each marketed "advancement."



With, of course the caveat that “the benefits and detriments are not
constant across all users�. Yeah, I know, that’s a little hard for
engineers to swallow, but if I can do it, so can you.

Sure. I already agreed to that above.

--
- Frank Krygowski