Relaxing watch

On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 19:02:25 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 12/19/2019 3:22 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, December 19, 2019 at 10:33:27 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Of course, I was not saying an unmodernized Victorian house is some sort
of ideal. I was saying there are people who prefer some of the design
elements of Victorian (or other period) architecture.]

I get that and was responding to John B.

The Victorian is one of my least favorite architectural eras because of room size and lay-out. The were like rabbit warrens. Who needs a parlor? Arts and craft was more flow-through, but I much prefer my house: https://tinyurl.com/y3dznsma Lots of negative ions. I've had to put in cable-stays and engineer some major fixes, but other than that, its great.

I'm not much of a F.L.Wright fan. (There are other Wrights I think were
great.) Aside from his Jutean arrogance, what does it say if a person's
supposed masterpiece starts falling apart?
https://www.theguardian.com/culture/...0/artsfeatures

On the other hand after the 1923 Great Kanto Earthquake
one of the few buildings to remain standing, after the dust had
settled was the Imperial Hotel Tokyo designed by Frank Lloyd Wright.
:-)
--
cheers,

John B.

On Thursday, December 19, 2019 at 4:02:45 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/19/2019 3:22 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, December 19, 2019 at 10:33:27 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Of course, I was not saying an unmodernized Victorian house is some sort
of ideal. I was saying there are people who prefer some of the design
elements of Victorian (or other period) architecture.]

I get that and was responding to John B.

The Victorian is one of my least favorite architectural eras because of room size and lay-out. The were like rabbit warrens. Who needs a parlor? Arts and craft was more flow-through, but I much prefer my house: https://tinyurl.com/y3dznsma Lots of negative ions. I've had to put in cable-stays and engineer some major fixes, but other than that, its great.

I'm not much of a F.L.Wright fan. (There are other Wrights I think were
great.) Aside from his Jutean arrogance, what does it say if a person's
supposed masterpiece starts falling apart?
https://www.theguardian.com/culture/...0/artsfeatures

FLW the man was deeply flawed, but some of his homes were spectacular -- unless you like closets or engineering.

jbeattie writes:

On Thursday, December 19, 2019 at 4:02:45 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/19/2019 3:22 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, December 19, 2019 at 10:33:27 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Of course, I was not saying an unmodernized Victorian house is some sort
of ideal. I was saying there are people who prefer some of the design
elements of Victorian (or other period) architecture.]

I get that and was responding to John B.

The Victorian is one of my least favorite architectural eras
because of room size and lay-out. The were like rabbit
warrens. Who needs a parlor? Arts and craft was more
flow-through, but I much prefer my house:
https://tinyurl.com/y3dznsma Lots of negative ions. I've had to
put in cable-stays and engineer some major fixes, but other than
that, its great.

I'm not much of a F.L.Wright fan. (There are other Wrights I think were
great.) Aside from his Jutean arrogance, what does it say if a person's
supposed masterpiece starts falling apart?
https://www.theguardian.com/culture/...0/artsfeatures

FLW the man was deeply flawed, but some of his homes were spectacular
-- unless you like closets or engineering.

Who wants to live in a spectacle?

Frank Krygowski writes:

On 12/19/2019 6:07 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
Mike A Schwab writes:

On Thursday, December 19, 2019 at 11:52:48 AM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:

deleted
There's a trend in our area to install metal roofs with raised seams.
They're claimed to last forever, but it's too early to say whether
that's true or not.

--
- Frank Krygowski

England is still thatching roofs.
https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/grant-t...urch-1-6426665

There's a thatched roof cottage^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hmansion not far from
where I live:

http://www.thethatchers.com/portfolio.shtml

I've ridden through Lincoln, MA quite a bit, but never caught sight of
it. One of these days I'll figure out where it is.

Wow. Looks flammable! Maybe not a good idea in present day California?

I'm sure it is, but less so than wood shingles, which were normal
roofing material at one time. Not a lot of wildfires in eastern
Massachusetts; house fires tend to be the result of expedient heating
methods.

For California the traditional roofing material is terracotta tile.

John B. writes:

On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 12:22:24 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

On Thursday, December 19, 2019 at 10:33:27 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/19/2019 1:00 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, December 18, 2019 at 3:31:23 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 17:28:33 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 12/18/2019 3:41 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, December 18, 2019 at 8:23:36 AM UTC-8, Frank
Krygowski wrote:

Like it or not, art (AKA personal taste) influences bicycle design. And
as with modern houses (some built with Victorian, or farmhouse, or Arts
& Crafts era elements) there are people who prefer aesthetic elements
from earlier times. Ditto for cars, clothing, music, furnishings,
landscaping, etc.

O.K., and further to my last, have you lived in a Victorian
house? I have. Most of your time is spent trying not to
freeze to death and hoping the knob-and-slob wiring doesn't
catch fire. Most have ship-lap or barn siding, rotten sash
cords, AWOL sash weights, rotting pipe -- asbestos
everything. There was no code, so predictions as to stud
dimensions and location have to be done with the Victorian
home computer:
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...zOq4miH18Ke2&s
My favorite part are the additions -- typically a bathroom
tacked on with a foundation made from rocks or a room made
from a sagging, under-built former sun porch.

Perhaps you misread. I said "... as with MODERN houses ... built with
Victorian elements." [Emphasis added.]

We have some of those around here. They are a pleasant contrast to the
modern American suburban lump where the garage door is the dominant
architectural "feature" of the house. Some are built with large,
friendly and picturesque porches, some with turret rooms, and some with
layouts and shapes that distinguish them from big featureless boxes
attached to garages.

I've been in a couple. They were completely modern and
comfortable inside.

On a recent vacation on Amelia Island, Florida, I spent time biking
though a (relatively) new neighborhood, perhaps 15 years old. The layout
of the neighborhood was very friendly to pedestrians and cyclists, and
the houses were varied and charming.

It was a world away from this:
https://marketplace.canva.com/MAC_v0...AC_v0m28b8.jpg
or this:
https://live.staticflickr.com/6028/5...baa5ffb0_b.jpg

The original poster must not be very familiar with buildings :-) Both
my grand parents lived in houses built some years ago. My maternal
grand parents's house was built in the 1700's and had non of the
shortcomings mentioned.

I've lived in turn-of-the-century homes with shiplap or board
siding with no sheeting and no wall insulation. They were drafty
and expensive to heat. I was the king of sash weight retrieval
and reinstallation and replacing endless stops and moldings.

By the way, there is noting inherently wrong with "knob and tube"
wiring.... after all it is still used in external electrical systems.
see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQNQKkvGQL0
for examples of this type of wiring.

A pristine knob and tube system is fine. They are NEVER pristine
and often covered in blown-in insulation, which is a total
no-no. A lot of older homes had low capacity systems, a small
number of circuits and an outlet or two per room handling a
zillion modern devices. Fire
hazards. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cU5wAhSWGU&t=6s A lot
of insurers will not write a house with knob and tube.

You are confusing two things. The basic type of electrical system and
the instillation, i.e, number of receptacles. Back in the days when
post and tube systems were in common use a modern house had, lets see,
maybe, if really modern, an electric fridge and an electric washing
machine. then there would be an outlet in the living room for the
radio and of course the lighting.... one 60 watt lamp per room.

Hardly remembered today, but in the evenings people used to gather
around the wood stove and actually carry on conversations. There even
seemed to be a "standardized seating arrangement" with the men around
the stove in the "front room" while the ladies congregated in the
kitchen.

As for blown in insulation, back in the day it was shredded asbestos
which is (or was) a common electrical insulator and in an older house
blowing in asbestos covering for the ceilings could cut your winter
heating costs by half. I well remember when someone in my town tried
it and the next year everybody was doing it.

Asbestos was a wonderful, new, modern material. Doing without it would
be like living in the nineteenth century.

Of course, I was not saying an unmodernized Victorian house is some sort
of ideal. I was saying there are people who prefer some of the design
elements of Victorian (or other period) architecture.]

I get that and was responding to John B.

The Victorian is one of my least favorite architectural eras because
of room size and lay-out. The were like rabbit warrens. Who needs a
parlor? Arts and craft was more flow-through, but I much prefer my
house: https://tinyurl.com/y3dznsma Lots of negative ions. I've had
to put in cable-stays and engineer some major fixes, but other than
that, its great.

What? Of course one needed a parlor! Where else would the lady of the
house entertain her guests when they came to call? And a "Front Room"
as it was called. Well, when the Preacher came to call one could
hardly entertain him in the kitchen. And a "Dining Room"? Would you
have your guests sit down to dinner in the kitchen?

The trend today in the US is "open plan", an entire floor as one large,
noisy room. The first thing you're supposed to do with an old house is
to rip out all the interior walls. Might as well live in a tent.

On Friday, 20 December 2019 10:56:31 UTC-5, Radey Shouman wrote:
John B. writes:

On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 12:22:24 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

On Thursday, December 19, 2019 at 10:33:27 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/19/2019 1:00 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, December 18, 2019 at 3:31:23 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 17:28:33 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 12/18/2019 3:41 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, December 18, 2019 at 8:23:36 AM UTC-8, Frank
Krygowski wrote:

Like it or not, art (AKA personal taste) influences bicycle design. And
as with modern houses (some built with Victorian, or farmhouse, or Arts
& Crafts era elements) there are people who prefer aesthetic elements
from earlier times. Ditto for cars, clothing, music, furnishings,
landscaping, etc.

O.K., and further to my last, have you lived in a Victorian
house? I have. Most of your time is spent trying not to
freeze to death and hoping the knob-and-slob wiring doesn't
catch fire. Most have ship-lap or barn siding, rotten sash
cords, AWOL sash weights, rotting pipe -- asbestos
everything. There was no code, so predictions as to stud
dimensions and location have to be done with the Victorian
home computer:
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...zOq4miH18Ke2&s
My favorite part are the additions -- typically a bathroom
tacked on with a foundation made from rocks or a room made
from a sagging, under-built former sun porch.

Perhaps you misread. I said "... as with MODERN houses ... built with
Victorian elements." [Emphasis added.]

We have some of those around here. They are a pleasant contrast to the
modern American suburban lump where the garage door is the dominant
architectural "feature" of the house. Some are built with large,
friendly and picturesque porches, some with turret rooms, and some with
layouts and shapes that distinguish them from big featureless boxes
attached to garages.

I've been in a couple. They were completely modern and
comfortable inside.

On a recent vacation on Amelia Island, Florida, I spent time biking
though a (relatively) new neighborhood, perhaps 15 years old. The layout
of the neighborhood was very friendly to pedestrians and cyclists, and
the houses were varied and charming.

It was a world away from this:
https://marketplace.canva.com/MAC_v0...AC_v0m28b8.jpg
or this:
https://live.staticflickr.com/6028/5...baa5ffb0_b.jpg

The original poster must not be very familiar with buildings :-) Both
my grand parents lived in houses built some years ago. My maternal
grand parents's house was built in the 1700's and had non of the
shortcomings mentioned.

I've lived in turn-of-the-century homes with shiplap or board
siding with no sheeting and no wall insulation. They were drafty
and expensive to heat. I was the king of sash weight retrieval
and reinstallation and replacing endless stops and moldings.

By the way, there is noting inherently wrong with "knob and tube"
wiring.... after all it is still used in external electrical systems.
see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQNQKkvGQL0
for examples of this type of wiring.

A pristine knob and tube system is fine. They are NEVER pristine
and often covered in blown-in insulation, which is a total
no-no. A lot of older homes had low capacity systems, a small
number of circuits and an outlet or two per room handling a
zillion modern devices. Fire
hazards. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cU5wAhSWGU&t=6s A lot
of insurers will not write a house with knob and tube.

You are confusing two things. The basic type of electrical system and
the instillation, i.e, number of receptacles. Back in the days when
post and tube systems were in common use a modern house had, lets see,
maybe, if really modern, an electric fridge and an electric washing
machine. then there would be an outlet in the living room for the
radio and of course the lighting.... one 60 watt lamp per room.

Hardly remembered today, but in the evenings people used to gather
around the wood stove and actually carry on conversations. There even
seemed to be a "standardized seating arrangement" with the men around
the stove in the "front room" while the ladies congregated in the
kitchen.

As for blown in insulation, back in the day it was shredded asbestos
which is (or was) a common electrical insulator and in an older house
blowing in asbestos covering for the ceilings could cut your winter
heating costs by half. I well remember when someone in my town tried
it and the next year everybody was doing it.

Asbestos was a wonderful, new, modern material. Doing without it would
be like living in the nineteenth century.

Of course, I was not saying an unmodernized Victorian house is some sort
of ideal. I was saying there are people who prefer some of the design
elements of Victorian (or other period) architecture.]

I get that and was responding to John B.

The Victorian is one of my least favorite architectural eras because
of room size and lay-out. The were like rabbit warrens. Who needs a
parlor? Arts and craft was more flow-through, but I much prefer my
house: https://tinyurl.com/y3dznsma Lots of negative ions. I've had
to put in cable-stays and engineer some major fixes, but other than
that, its great.

What? Of course one needed a parlor! Where else would the lady of the
house entertain her guests when they came to call? And a "Front Room"
as it was called. Well, when the Preacher came to call one could
hardly entertain him in the kitchen. And a "Dining Room"? Would you
have your guests sit down to dinner in the kitchen?

The trend today in the US is "open plan", an entire floor as one large,
noisy room. The first thing you're supposed to do with an old house is
to rip out all the interior walls. Might as well live in a tent.

Open concept houses really raises the heating and/or cooling bills too since you can't heat/cool just one or two rooms.

Cheers

On Friday, December 20, 2019 at 7:56:31 AM UTC-8, Radey Shouman wrote:
John B. writes:

On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 12:22:24 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

On Thursday, December 19, 2019 at 10:33:27 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/19/2019 1:00 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, December 18, 2019 at 3:31:23 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 17:28:33 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 12/18/2019 3:41 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, December 18, 2019 at 8:23:36 AM UTC-8, Frank
Krygowski wrote:

Like it or not, art (AKA personal taste) influences bicycle design. And
as with modern houses (some built with Victorian, or farmhouse, or Arts
& Crafts era elements) there are people who prefer aesthetic elements
from earlier times. Ditto for cars, clothing, music, furnishings,
landscaping, etc.

O.K., and further to my last, have you lived in a Victorian
house? I have. Most of your time is spent trying not to
freeze to death and hoping the knob-and-slob wiring doesn't
catch fire. Most have ship-lap or barn siding, rotten sash
cords, AWOL sash weights, rotting pipe -- asbestos
everything. There was no code, so predictions as to stud
dimensions and location have to be done with the Victorian
home computer:
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...zOq4miH18Ke2&s
My favorite part are the additions -- typically a bathroom
tacked on with a foundation made from rocks or a room made
from a sagging, under-built former sun porch.

Perhaps you misread. I said "... as with MODERN houses ... built with
Victorian elements." [Emphasis added.]

We have some of those around here. They are a pleasant contrast to the
modern American suburban lump where the garage door is the dominant
architectural "feature" of the house. Some are built with large,
friendly and picturesque porches, some with turret rooms, and some with
layouts and shapes that distinguish them from big featureless boxes
attached to garages.

I've been in a couple. They were completely modern and
comfortable inside.

On a recent vacation on Amelia Island, Florida, I spent time biking
though a (relatively) new neighborhood, perhaps 15 years old. The layout
of the neighborhood was very friendly to pedestrians and cyclists, and
the houses were varied and charming.

It was a world away from this:
https://marketplace.canva.com/MAC_v0...AC_v0m28b8.jpg
or this:
https://live.staticflickr.com/6028/5...baa5ffb0_b.jpg

The original poster must not be very familiar with buildings :-) Both
my grand parents lived in houses built some years ago. My maternal
grand parents's house was built in the 1700's and had non of the
shortcomings mentioned.

I've lived in turn-of-the-century homes with shiplap or board
siding with no sheeting and no wall insulation. They were drafty
and expensive to heat. I was the king of sash weight retrieval
and reinstallation and replacing endless stops and moldings.

By the way, there is noting inherently wrong with "knob and tube"
wiring.... after all it is still used in external electrical systems.
see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQNQKkvGQL0
for examples of this type of wiring.

A pristine knob and tube system is fine. They are NEVER pristine
and often covered in blown-in insulation, which is a total
no-no. A lot of older homes had low capacity systems, a small
number of circuits and an outlet or two per room handling a
zillion modern devices. Fire
hazards. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cU5wAhSWGU&t=6s A lot
of insurers will not write a house with knob and tube.

You are confusing two things. The basic type of electrical system and
the instillation, i.e, number of receptacles. Back in the days when
post and tube systems were in common use a modern house had, lets see,
maybe, if really modern, an electric fridge and an electric washing
machine. then there would be an outlet in the living room for the
radio and of course the lighting.... one 60 watt lamp per room.

Hardly remembered today, but in the evenings people used to gather
around the wood stove and actually carry on conversations. There even
seemed to be a "standardized seating arrangement" with the men around
the stove in the "front room" while the ladies congregated in the
kitchen.

As for blown in insulation, back in the day it was shredded asbestos
which is (or was) a common electrical insulator and in an older house
blowing in asbestos covering for the ceilings could cut your winter
heating costs by half. I well remember when someone in my town tried
it and the next year everybody was doing it.

Asbestos was a wonderful, new, modern material. Doing without it would
be like living in the nineteenth century.

Of course, I was not saying an unmodernized Victorian house is some sort
of ideal. I was saying there are people who prefer some of the design
elements of Victorian (or other period) architecture.]

I get that and was responding to John B.

The Victorian is one of my least favorite architectural eras because
of room size and lay-out. The were like rabbit warrens. Who needs a
parlor? Arts and craft was more flow-through, but I much prefer my
house: https://tinyurl.com/y3dznsma Lots of negative ions. I've had
to put in cable-stays and engineer some major fixes, but other than
that, its great.

What? Of course one needed a parlor! Where else would the lady of the
house entertain her guests when they came to call? And a "Front Room"
as it was called. Well, when the Preacher came to call one could
hardly entertain him in the kitchen. And a "Dining Room"? Would you
have your guests sit down to dinner in the kitchen?

The trend today in the US is "open plan", an entire floor as one large,
noisy room. The first thing you're supposed to do with an old house is
to rip out all the interior walls. Might as well live in a tent.

Or at least live in a tent while ripping out all the walls. A lot of Victorian homes are like rat mazes. Not my cup of tea. The open plan is nice for entertaining, but depending on ceiling height, floor covering and other features, it can be alienating and un-cozy. I like FLW because he was into "human spaces," so even his more open plan designs had scaled-down areas and alcoves. https://tinyurl.com/yx79a4z5 I have a nicely executed '51 ranch, which is the pinnacle of home design -- simultaneously spacious and cozy with good light. I feel like I'm on a ranch, minus the cows -- and minus basically all other ranch-like things.

Depending on where you live, certain designs are clearly not optimal. Tudors in the PNW are usually too dark, IMO. You need as much light as you can possibly get up here in rainville.

-- Jay Beattie.

Radey Shouman wrote:
John B. writes:

On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 12:22:24 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

On Thursday, December 19, 2019 at 10:33:27 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/19/2019 1:00 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, December 18, 2019 at 3:31:23 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 17:28:33 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 12/18/2019 3:41 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, December 18, 2019 at 8:23:36 AM UTC-8, Frank
Krygowski wrote:

Like it or not, art (AKA personal taste) influences bicycle design. And
as with modern houses (some built with Victorian, or farmhouse, or Arts
& Crafts era elements) there are people who prefer aesthetic elements
from earlier times. Ditto for cars, clothing, music, furnishings,
landscaping, etc.

O.K., and further to my last, have you lived in a Victorian
house? I have. Most of your time is spent trying not to
freeze to death and hoping the knob-and-slob wiring doesn't
catch fire. Most have ship-lap or barn siding, rotten sash
cords, AWOL sash weights, rotting pipe -- asbestos
everything. There was no code, so predictions as to stud
dimensions and location have to be done with the Victorian
home computer:
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...zOq4miH18Ke2&s
My favorite part are the additions -- typically a bathroom
tacked on with a foundation made from rocks or a room made
from a sagging, under-built former sun porch.

Perhaps you misread. I said "... as with MODERN houses ... built with
Victorian elements." [Emphasis added.]

We have some of those around here. They are a pleasant contrast to the
modern American suburban lump where the garage door is the dominant
architectural "feature" of the house. Some are built with large,
friendly and picturesque porches, some with turret rooms, and some with
layouts and shapes that distinguish them from big featureless boxes
attached to garages.

I've been in a couple. They were completely modern and
comfortable inside.

On a recent vacation on Amelia Island, Florida, I spent time biking
though a (relatively) new neighborhood, perhaps 15 years old. The layout
of the neighborhood was very friendly to pedestrians and cyclists, and
the houses were varied and charming.

It was a world away from this:
https://marketplace.canva.com/MAC_v0...AC_v0m28b8.jpg
or this:
https://live.staticflickr.com/6028/5...baa5ffb0_b.jpg

The original poster must not be very familiar with buildings :-) Both
my grand parents lived in houses built some years ago. My maternal
grand parents's house was built in the 1700's and had non of the
shortcomings mentioned.

I've lived in turn-of-the-century homes with shiplap or board
siding with no sheeting and no wall insulation. They were drafty
and expensive to heat. I was the king of sash weight retrieval
and reinstallation and replacing endless stops and moldings.

By the way, there is noting inherently wrong with "knob and tube"
wiring.... after all it is still used in external electrical systems.
see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQNQKkvGQL0
for examples of this type of wiring.

A pristine knob and tube system is fine. They are NEVER pristine
and often covered in blown-in insulation, which is a total
no-no. A lot of older homes had low capacity systems, a small
number of circuits and an outlet or two per room handling a
zillion modern devices. Fire
hazards. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cU5wAhSWGU&t=6s A lot
of insurers will not write a house with knob and tube.

You are confusing two things. The basic type of electrical system and
the instillation, i.e, number of receptacles. Back in the days when
post and tube systems were in common use a modern house had, lets see,
maybe, if really modern, an electric fridge and an electric washing
machine. then there would be an outlet in the living room for the
radio and of course the lighting.... one 60 watt lamp per room.

Hardly remembered today, but in the evenings people used to gather
around the wood stove and actually carry on conversations. There even
seemed to be a "standardized seating arrangement" with the men around
the stove in the "front room" while the ladies congregated in the
kitchen.

As for blown in insulation, back in the day it was shredded asbestos
which is (or was) a common electrical insulator and in an older house
blowing in asbestos covering for the ceilings could cut your winter
heating costs by half. I well remember when someone in my town tried
it and the next year everybody was doing it.

Asbestos was a wonderful, new, modern material. Doing without it would
be like living in the nineteenth century.

Of course, I was not saying an unmodernized Victorian house is some sort
of ideal. I was saying there are people who prefer some of the design
elements of Victorian (or other period) architecture.]

I get that and was responding to John B.

The Victorian is one of my least favorite architectural eras because
of room size and lay-out. The were like rabbit warrens. Who needs a
parlor? Arts and craft was more flow-through, but I much prefer my
house: https://tinyurl.com/y3dznsma Lots of negative ions. I've had
to put in cable-stays and engineer some major fixes, but other than
that, its great.

What? Of course one needed a parlor! Where else would the lady of the
house entertain her guests when they came to call? And a "Front Room"
as it was called. Well, when the Preacher came to call one could
hardly entertain him in the kitchen. And a "Dining Room"? Would you
have your guests sit down to dinner in the kitchen?

The trend today in the US is "open plan", an entire floor as one large,
noisy room. The first thing you're supposed to do with an old house is
to rip out all the interior walls. Might as well live in a tent.


Open plan has two disadvantages. One is that removing walls tends to remove
storage. Where do you hang pictures? Where do you put cupboards and
closets? The second disadvantage is the inability to just close a door and
make a messy room “go away�.

On 12/20/2019 2:57 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:

Open plan has two disadvantages. One is that removing walls tends to remove
storage. Where do you hang pictures? Where do you put cupboards and
closets? The second disadvantage is the inability to just close a door and
make a messy room “go away�.

Or alternately, just "go away" yourself. I mean, I love my wife; but
there are times I don't want to be in the same room with her. The cause
can be something as simple as preferring different music at that point
in time. Or one of us wanting to watch TV while the other wants to read.

Maybe that's less of a problem for the earbud generation?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 12/20/2019 1:58 PM, jbeattie wrote:
I like FLW because he was into "human spaces," so even his more open plan designs had scaled-down areas and alcoves. https://tinyurl.com/yx79a4z5

I don't know... To me, that has all the hominess of a convention center.

--
- Frank Krygowski