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  #1  
Old December 8th 19, 12:28 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Default Bike adjustments

As part of the ordering process of my gravel bike I was measured last Wednesday to determine the correct frame size. The measuring program didn't take the handlebar/shifter/shifter position into account in contrast to saddle make and type. I found that strange because most of the time you are riding on the hoods. It was a rainy day yesterday so I took the time to measure all my current bikes which I adjusted by 'feel' giving the purpose/riding style of that bike. Results:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/1HbWyM6g1gNqoyMx5

So today I went back to the LBS (another 100 km round trip) to discuss this.. In the meantime the manufacturer emailed the shop a drawing of their proposal. Strangely this drawing did show the measurements of the position of the shifter on the handlebar and this came very close what I measured on my bikes especially measurement E, F and D. With the mechanic we figured out the correct frame size taking the chosen handlebar, a stem length of 110 mm and the new Ultegra shifters and the manufacturers proposal/my measurements into account. My question is what do these measurement programs exactly do? Are there people that close a bike only based on these measurements?

Lou
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  #2  
Old December 8th 19, 12:49 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 4,598
Default Bike adjustments

On Saturday, December 7, 2019 at 3:28:56 PM UTC-8, wrote:
As part of the ordering process of my gravel bike I was measured last Wednesday to determine the correct frame size. The measuring program didn't take the handlebar/shifter/shifter position into account in contrast to saddle make and type. I found that strange because most of the time you are riding on the hoods. It was a rainy day yesterday so I took the time to measure all my current bikes which I adjusted by 'feel' giving the purpose/riding style of that bike. Results:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/1HbWyM6g1gNqoyMx5

So today I went back to the LBS (another 100 km round trip) to discuss this. In the meantime the manufacturer emailed the shop a drawing of their proposal. Strangely this drawing did show the measurements of the position of the shifter on the handlebar and this came very close what I measured on my bikes especially measurement E, F and D. With the mechanic we figured out the correct frame size taking the chosen handlebar, a stem length of 110 mm and the new Ultegra shifters and the manufacturers proposal/my measurements into account. My question is what do these measurement programs exactly do? Are there people that close a bike only based on these measurements?

Lou


Lou, if its a compact, buy a "medium." Done. Why should it be any more difficult than buying one of your Canyons?

The measurements are intended to impress you. Shop drawings and proposals?
What, are you buying from General Dynamics? What are you buying?

Back in the day, seat tube length was a big deal, but now with compacts and long seat posts, the important measurement is TT, so I suppose they're trying to get your TT just right to size the bike with a stem that is not too short or too long, which might affect steering in some metaphysical way. Unless you're built like ET, they'll pull a "medium" out of stock, declare it custom and hand it to you.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #3  
Old December 8th 19, 01:17 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
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Default Bike adjustments

On Saturday, December 7, 2019 at 11:49:42 PM UTC, jbeattie wrote:

Lou, if its a compact, buy a "medium." Done. Why should it be any more difficult than buying one of your Canyons?


In Europe bicycle manufacturers take themselves and their customers seriously.

Andre Jute
My bikes all fit me to within 1mm. Why shouldn't they?
  #4  
Old December 8th 19, 04:13 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Default Bike adjustments

On Saturday, December 7, 2019 at 4:17:45 PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
On Saturday, December 7, 2019 at 11:49:42 PM UTC, jbeattie wrote:

Lou, if its a compact, buy a "medium." Done. Why should it be any more difficult than buying one of your Canyons?


In Europe bicycle manufacturers take themselves and their customers seriously.


What does it even mean that your bikes fit you to within 1mm? 1mm of what? My bikes fit me exactly because I have adjusted the saddle height, position and stem length and rise (or purchased a bike with appropriate stack height so I don't need rise). My bikes are exactly fitted to me even though my frames are all over-the-counter. And my fit changes as I get older and creakier and less flexible.

Assuming you had long legs and a tiny torso, you might need a custom frame with a short TT and weird geometry, but assuming you're not misshapen, what basic dimension of your bike is any different from a similarly sized bike with basically the same geometry, vis., the same type of bike?

-- Jay Beattie.
  #5  
Old December 8th 19, 08:03 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Default Bike adjustments

On Sunday, December 8, 2019 at 12:49:42 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, December 7, 2019 at 3:28:56 PM UTC-8, wrote:
As part of the ordering process of my gravel bike I was measured last Wednesday to determine the correct frame size. The measuring program didn't take the handlebar/shifter/shifter position into account in contrast to saddle make and type. I found that strange because most of the time you are riding on the hoods. It was a rainy day yesterday so I took the time to measure all my current bikes which I adjusted by 'feel' giving the purpose/riding style of that bike. Results:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/1HbWyM6g1gNqoyMx5

So today I went back to the LBS (another 100 km round trip) to discuss this. In the meantime the manufacturer emailed the shop a drawing of their proposal. Strangely this drawing did show the measurements of the position of the shifter on the handlebar and this came very close what I measured on my bikes especially measurement E, F and D. With the mechanic we figured out the correct frame size taking the chosen handlebar, a stem length of 110 mm and the new Ultegra shifters and the manufacturers proposal/my measurements into account. My question is what do these measurement programs exactly do? Are there people that close a bike only based on these measurements?

Lou


Lou, if its a compact, buy a "medium." Done. Why should it be any more difficult than buying one of your Canyons?

The measurements are intended to impress you. Shop drawings and proposals?
What, are you buying from General Dynamics? What are you buying?

Back in the day, seat tube length was a big deal, but now with compacts and long seat posts, the important measurement is TT, so I suppose they're trying to get your TT just right to size the bike with a stem that is not too short or too long, which might affect steering in some metaphysical way. Unless you're built like ET, they'll pull a "medium" out of stock, declare it custom and hand it to you.


Yes that is what I thought. 7 body measurements (left and right footlength ???) which resulted in 19 adjustment proposals, even a seattube angle of 73.74 degrees. WTF? Bike will be custom build (parts) but frame will not be custom. I just wanted the right size to begin with (over-the counter) and not ending up with a 80 mm stem. These are good guys btw but they soon found out that I'm not the average customer ;-) They are dealers of BMC, Cannondale, Cervelo, IDworx, Santos, De Rosa, Bianchi and the brand I'm buying now which made me part of an American family. How about that for marketing ;-)

Lou.

  #6  
Old December 8th 19, 08:20 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
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Posts: 1,699
Default Bike adjustments

On Sat, 7 Dec 2019 23:03:31 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Sunday, December 8, 2019 at 12:49:42 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, December 7, 2019 at 3:28:56 PM UTC-8, wrote:
As part of the ordering process of my gravel bike I was measured last Wednesday to determine the correct frame size. The measuring program didn't take the handlebar/shifter/shifter position into account in contrast to saddle make and type. I found that strange because most of the time you are riding on the hoods. It was a rainy day yesterday so I took the time to measure all my current bikes which I adjusted by 'feel' giving the purpose/riding style of that bike. Results:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/1HbWyM6g1gNqoyMx5

So today I went back to the LBS (another 100 km round trip) to discuss this. In the meantime the manufacturer emailed the shop a drawing of their proposal. Strangely this drawing did show the measurements of the position of the shifter on the handlebar and this came very close what I measured on my bikes especially measurement E, F and D. With the mechanic we figured out the correct frame size taking the chosen handlebar, a stem length of 110 mm and the new Ultegra shifters and the manufacturers proposal/my measurements into account. My question is what do these measurement programs exactly do? Are there people that close a bike only based on these measurements?

Lou


Lou, if its a compact, buy a "medium." Done. Why should it be any more difficult than buying one of your Canyons?

The measurements are intended to impress you. Shop drawings and proposals?
What, are you buying from General Dynamics? What are you buying?

Back in the day, seat tube length was a big deal, but now with compacts and long seat posts, the important measurement is TT, so I suppose they're trying to get your TT just right to size the bike with a stem that is not too short or too long, which might affect steering in some metaphysical way. Unless you're built like ET, they'll pull a "medium" out of stock, declare it custom and hand it to you.


Yes that is what I thought. 7 body measurements (left and right footlength ???) which resulted in 19 adjustment proposals, even a seattube angle of 73.74 degrees. WTF? Bike will be custom build (parts) but frame will not be custom. I just wanted the right size to begin with (over-the counter) and not ending up with a 80 mm stem. These are good guys btw but they soon found out that I'm not the average customer ;-) They are dealers of BMC, Cannondale, Cervelo, IDworx, Santos, De Rosa, Bianchi and the brand I'm buying now which made me part of an American family. How about that for marketing ;-)

Lou.


It used to be much simpler. Buy a bike that you could stand over; set
the seat height and position; set the stem position; ride the bike and
make any more changes.

It still works for me :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

  #7  
Old December 8th 19, 12:13 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Guy Gadboit
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Default Bike adjustments

All that stuff about measuring your foot length and recommending funny ST angles is probably because it's working out how to get your knee over the pedal spindle (see https://www.sheldonbrown.com/kops.html).

There's a lot of opacity around how these fit calculators work. I think many of them just produce numbers which are simple linear combinations of the measurements you put in with builtin coefficients.
  #8  
Old December 8th 19, 01:00 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Posts: 8,824
Default Bike adjustments

On 12/7/2019 3:28 PM, wrote:

snip

Are there people that close a bike only based on these measurements?

No.

It used to be that stock frames came in 2cm increments from 46 cm to 64
cm so for most riders it wasn't necessary to order a custom frame. You
might need to change the stem reach a little but you could get very
close to an ideal fit unless you had short legs and long arms or
vice-versa. When I bought my touring bicycle, a 57 cm would have been
ideal but I had to choose between a 56cm and a 58cm. At the time, the
conventional wisdom was to go 1cm up for touring bicycles and 1cm down
for road bicycles, so I went up. That was fine when I bought it, but 34
years later it's too big for me.

Manufacturers got tired of manufacturing ten different frame sizes so
now they'll make four to six different "compact" frame sizes and use
various combinations of seat posts, stems, and spacers to make things
fit─kind of, sort of. It's like the old Midas Muffler commercial where
the customer asks "do you have a muffler that will fit my car" and the
mechanic answers "fit? we'll make it fit" and proceeds to use a
collection of adapters to create something that can be used.

This approach has benefited custom manufacturers. One short friend of
mine ended up with a beautiful custom titanium frame road bicycle.
Because a triple crankset is preferred in this area, especially for
older riders, she had to go with a Shimano 105 group.
  #9  
Old December 8th 19, 01:02 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Posts: 690
Default Bike adjustments

On Sunday, December 8, 2019 at 8:20:33 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 7 Dec 2019 23:03:31 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Sunday, December 8, 2019 at 12:49:42 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, December 7, 2019 at 3:28:56 PM UTC-8, wrote:
As part of the ordering process of my gravel bike I was measured last Wednesday to determine the correct frame size. The measuring program didn't take the handlebar/shifter/shifter position into account in contrast to saddle make and type. I found that strange because most of the time you are riding on the hoods. It was a rainy day yesterday so I took the time to measure all my current bikes which I adjusted by 'feel' giving the purpose/riding style of that bike. Results:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/1HbWyM6g1gNqoyMx5

So today I went back to the LBS (another 100 km round trip) to discuss this. In the meantime the manufacturer emailed the shop a drawing of their proposal. Strangely this drawing did show the measurements of the position of the shifter on the handlebar and this came very close what I measured on my bikes especially measurement E, F and D. With the mechanic we figured out the correct frame size taking the chosen handlebar, a stem length of 110 mm and the new Ultegra shifters and the manufacturers proposal/my measurements into account. My question is what do these measurement programs exactly do? Are there people that close a bike only based on these measurements?

Lou

Lou, if its a compact, buy a "medium." Done. Why should it be any more difficult than buying one of your Canyons?

The measurements are intended to impress you. Shop drawings and proposals?
What, are you buying from General Dynamics? What are you buying?

Back in the day, seat tube length was a big deal, but now with compacts and long seat posts, the important measurement is TT, so I suppose they're trying to get your TT just right to size the bike with a stem that is not too short or too long, which might affect steering in some metaphysical way. Unless you're built like ET, they'll pull a "medium" out of stock, declare it custom and hand it to you.


Yes that is what I thought. 7 body measurements (left and right footlength ???) which resulted in 19 adjustment proposals, even a seattube angle of 73.74 degrees. WTF? Bike will be custom build (parts) but frame will not be custom. I just wanted the right size to begin with (over-the counter) and not ending up with a 80 mm stem. These are good guys btw but they soon found out that I'm not the average customer ;-) They are dealers of BMC, Cannondale, Cervelo, IDworx, Santos, De Rosa, Bianchi and the brand I'm buying now which made me part of an American family. How about that for marketing ;-)

Lou.


It used to be much simpler. Buy a bike that you could stand over; set
the seat height and position; set the stem position; ride the bike and
make any more changes.

It still works for me :-)
--
cheers,

John B.


Yes I remembered that time, where all frames had horizontal top tubes, only 2 saddles and handlebars to choose from and of course that awful quill stem. Most of the time people rode to large frames. That time passed thank god..

Lou
  #10  
Old December 8th 19, 03:39 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
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Posts: 1,231
Default Bike adjustments

On Saturday, December 7, 2019 at 4:17:45 PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
On Saturday, December 7, 2019 at 11:49:42 PM UTC, jbeattie wrote:

Lou, if its a compact, buy a "medium." Done. Why should it be any more difficult than buying one of your Canyons?


In Europe bicycle manufacturers take themselves and their customers seriously.

Andre Jute
My bikes all fit me to within 1mm. Why shouldn't they?


Tommassini actual built a totally custom frame for my friend but it was only mm different from a stock version. But it was one of the custom old-style steel bikes.

His wife was measured and hers was exactly the stock size.
 




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