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#21
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Sad helmet incident
On Sat, 18 Jan 2020 21:53:58 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote: There's also Darth Vader's helmet: https://www.google.com/search?q=darth+vader+helmet&tbm=isch and Star Wars Storm Troopers helmet: https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=star+wars+troopers+helmet The Troopers helmet splits vertically at the ear: https://www.manualslib.com/manual/66298/Hasbro-The-Clone-Wars-Aegs-5Plus.html Mo 3D printed helmets look better: https://www.google.com/search?q=3d+printed+helmet&tbm=isch Also, the Iron Man helmet: https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=iron+man+3d+printed+helmet 3D Printed Iron Man Helmet with Functional Electronics! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElOmVrb9Hac (2:06) Kewl... instant motorized visibility. Soon, everyone will be wearing super-hero safety helmets. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
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#22
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Sad helmet incident
On Sat, 18 Jan 2020 21:14:42 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote: On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 04:31:17 -0000 (UTC), news18 wrote: On Sat, 18 Jan 2020 16:31:33 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote: In my never humble opinion, it would not be difficult to redesign the common "quick release buckle" so that it would release under tension or possibly when an added release cord and D-ring is pulled. As well as the harpoon style buckle that requires two fingers to reelease, there is a press button (tab actually) style of buckle that has been around as log as the harpoon style. caveat, i usualy only see them in sewing shops. I think I know what you mean, but I can't find a photo with Google Image search. I also seem to recall they only came in a rather large 1" webbing size, not the typical 5/8" helmet chin strap webbing size. 1" webbing is too wide for a chin strap. I lied. I just found a center button quick release buckle: https://www.countrybrookdesign.com/buckle-center-button-quick-release-3-8-inch.html It's for 3/8" webbing. I found some for 3/4" and 1", but not 5/8". See first to rows of products below: https://www.countrybrookdesign.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=center+button+quick+release+buckle Still, nothing for 5/8" webbing. https://www.plastic-buckle.com/center-release-buckles.aspx Mo https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=YKK+center+button+quick+release+ buckles -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#23
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Sad helmet incident
On 1/18/2020 11:21 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jan 2020 19:07:56 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski wrote: On Saturday, January 18, 2020 at 8:38:25 PM UTC-5, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Saturday, 18 January 2020 19:31:22 UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 12:05:06 -0500, Radey Shouman wrote: Girl, 4, died after bike helmet got caught on branch: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-...shire-51139789 She wasn't riding her bike at the time, but, being four years old, she probably wasn't able to remove her own helmet. Perhaps we should all try a simple experiment. Throw a rope over an overhead tree branch or roof beam. Attach the other end of the rope to your bicycle helmet. Take up the rope slack by bending your knees. No need to lift your feed off the ground as you're likely to strangle yourself, break your neck, or hyperextend some muscles. While the chin strap is under tension, try to release the chin strap clip (also known as a "quick release buckle"). https://www.google.com/search?q=quick+release+buckle&tbm=isch I just tried it on my (Giro Indicator G151X) helmet, with only a few kg of tension, and couldn't release the chin strap (quickly or otherwise). The harpoon shaped clips are designed to hold under tension. The buckle on my spare helmet did something unexpected. If I only pushed one of the two buttons on each side, the quick release would jam. Squeezing the remaining button did not release the buckle. In order to release it, I had to push the buckle back together, and then push BOTH buttons at the same time, in order to convince the buckle to release. I doubt if a four year old could manage that. My Giro helmet didn't jam, but did require quite a bit of force to squeeze one or both buttons to release the buckle. In my never humble opinion, it would not be difficult to redesign the common "quick release buckle" so that it would release under tension or possibly when an added release cord and D-ring is pulled. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 The trick would be designing the release so that it stays attached in an accident yet releases if the pressure on it stays beyond a certain time. I have a friend who was pulled off his MTB whilst riding off-road, when a branch snagged in one of his helmet vent holes. Fortunately, other than being a bit stunned o=upon impact with the trail he was okay. I wonder how many injuries are caused by a helmet strap not releasing when the helmet is snagged by something? I think it would be filed under "freak accident". A very good friend of mine was once a rather rabid helmet promoter. She actually worked in a position where helmet promotion was one of her main duties. This was back in the early 1990s, not long after the terribly constructed (or perhaps dishonest) Thompson & Rivara paper had been published. She said to me "85%, Frank! 85% benefit! And it's so simple!" Turns out the benefit is not anywhere close to 85%. And the more you study the details, the more you realize it's not simple at all. - Frank Krygowski I came across something the other day that apparently that referenced several sources as follows: https://www.cyclehelmets.org/1012.html Specific research into fatalities in Sheffield, UK (Kennedy, 1996) has shown that even if head injuries were eliminated completely, at least 50% of cyclist deaths would still occur. Most fatalities involve multiple injuries and head injury is not the sole cause of death. The experience of a solicitor specialising in cyclist injuries (BHRF, 1173) supports the view that deaths solely due to head injury are unusual. A study of cyclist crashes in Brisbane, Australia concluded that helmets would prevent very few fatalities (Corner, Whitney, O'Rourke and Morgan, 1987). All deaths were caused through collisions between a bicycle and a motor vehicle. For 13 of the 14 cyclists who died, there was no indication that a helmet might have made any difference. In inner London, 58% of cyclist fatalities were caused by collisions with heavy good vehicles, as were 30% of those in outer London (Gilbert and McCarthy,1994). The idea that a lightweight polystyrene helmet could be of significant benefit in such circumstances is unrealistic... There are a number of other references in the article, one of which titled "Cyclist injury data before and after helmet law in Western Australia" demonstrating that hospital admissions, referenced to the number of cyclists, actually rose with the advent of the mandantory helmet law. There's plenty of data showing that the massive uptake in bike helmets hasn't caused a detectable reduction in fatalities. That means that that thousands of people who were promoting helmets as absolutely necessary life savers were wrong. It also means that the vast majority of the countless "my helmet saved my life" stories must be wrong. They're not dishonest; they're just wrong. There's also data showing that bike helmets haven't reduced cyclist's traumatic brain injuries. Bicyclist concussions have gone up, way up, over the last decade just as helmet use continued to rise. But that hasn't stopped the helmet promotion. Even on this group, we've had people who used to say helmets saved lives or prevent brain injuries. Now they piously say they wear a helmet only to prevent minor injuries. But they never ride without it. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#24
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Sad helmet incident
On Sunday, January 19, 2020 at 8:38:52 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/18/2020 11:21 PM, John B. wrote: On Sat, 18 Jan 2020 19:07:56 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski wrote: On Saturday, January 18, 2020 at 8:38:25 PM UTC-5, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Saturday, 18 January 2020 19:31:22 UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 12:05:06 -0500, Radey Shouman wrote: Girl, 4, died after bike helmet got caught on branch: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-...shire-51139789 She wasn't riding her bike at the time, but, being four years old, she probably wasn't able to remove her own helmet. Perhaps we should all try a simple experiment. Throw a rope over an overhead tree branch or roof beam. Attach the other end of the rope to your bicycle helmet. Take up the rope slack by bending your knees. No need to lift your feed off the ground as you're likely to strangle yourself, break your neck, or hyperextend some muscles. While the chin strap is under tension, try to release the chin strap clip (also known as a "quick release buckle"). https://www.google.com/search?q=quick+release+buckle&tbm=isch I just tried it on my (Giro Indicator G151X) helmet, with only a few kg of tension, and couldn't release the chin strap (quickly or otherwise). The harpoon shaped clips are designed to hold under tension. The buckle on my spare helmet did something unexpected. If I only pushed one of the two buttons on each side, the quick release would jam. Squeezing the remaining button did not release the buckle. In order to release it, I had to push the buckle back together, and then push BOTH buttons at the same time, in order to convince the buckle to release. I doubt if a four year old could manage that. My Giro helmet didn't jam, but did require quite a bit of force to squeeze one or both buttons to release the buckle. In my never humble opinion, it would not be difficult to redesign the common "quick release buckle" so that it would release under tension or possibly when an added release cord and D-ring is pulled. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 The trick would be designing the release so that it stays attached in an accident yet releases if the pressure on it stays beyond a certain time.. I have a friend who was pulled off his MTB whilst riding off-road, when a branch snagged in one of his helmet vent holes. Fortunately, other than being a bit stunned o=upon impact with the trail he was okay. I wonder how many injuries are caused by a helmet strap not releasing when the helmet is snagged by something? I think it would be filed under "freak accident". A very good friend of mine was once a rather rabid helmet promoter. She actually worked in a position where helmet promotion was one of her main duties. This was back in the early 1990s, not long after the terribly constructed (or perhaps dishonest) Thompson & Rivara paper had been published. She said to me "85%, Frank! 85% benefit! And it's so simple!" Turns out the benefit is not anywhere close to 85%. And the more you study the details, the more you realize it's not simple at all. - Frank Krygowski I came across something the other day that apparently that referenced several sources as follows: https://www.cyclehelmets.org/1012.html Specific research into fatalities in Sheffield, UK (Kennedy, 1996) has shown that even if head injuries were eliminated completely, at least 50% of cyclist deaths would still occur. Most fatalities involve multiple injuries and head injury is not the sole cause of death. The experience of a solicitor specialising in cyclist injuries (BHRF, 1173) supports the view that deaths solely due to head injury are unusual. A study of cyclist crashes in Brisbane, Australia concluded that helmets would prevent very few fatalities (Corner, Whitney, O'Rourke and Morgan, 1987). All deaths were caused through collisions between a bicycle and a motor vehicle. For 13 of the 14 cyclists who died, there was no indication that a helmet might have made any difference. In inner London, 58% of cyclist fatalities were caused by collisions with heavy good vehicles, as were 30% of those in outer London (Gilbert and McCarthy,1994). The idea that a lightweight polystyrene helmet could be of significant benefit in such circumstances is unrealistic... There are a number of other references in the article, one of which titled "Cyclist injury data before and after helmet law in Western Australia" demonstrating that hospital admissions, referenced to the number of cyclists, actually rose with the advent of the mandantory helmet law. There's plenty of data showing that the massive uptake in bike helmets hasn't caused a detectable reduction in fatalities. That means that that thousands of people who were promoting helmets as absolutely necessary life savers were wrong. It also means that the vast majority of the countless "my helmet saved my life" stories must be wrong. They're not dishonest; they're just wrong. There's also data showing that bike helmets haven't reduced cyclist's traumatic brain injuries. Bicyclist concussions have gone up, way up, over the last decade just as helmet use continued to rise. But that hasn't stopped the helmet promotion. Even on this group, we've had people who used to say helmets saved lives or prevent brain injuries. Now they piously say they wear a helmet only to prevent minor injuries. But they never ride without it. .. . . because they would prefer to avoid scalp injury, skull fracture, maybe even mitigate concussion. Sounds like a reasonable thing to do. I'm going out in a bit -- wet pavement, poor traction, rough roads. Seems like an appropriate time for a helmet. Why not? Wearing a helmet does not crush my soul, enslave my head, embolden Big Helmet or pose any other existential threat -- at least to me. I also wear gloves for hand protection. -- Jay Beattie. |
#25
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Sad helmet incident
On 1/18/2020 10:33 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
What bothers me is how the helmet strap could end up around the child's neck and kill by asphyxiation. If the helmet were suspended vertically (from the center of mass), the strap would remain under the child's chin. That would cause some damage, but would not strangle the child. However, if the helmet straps were loose, and the helmet slid towards the back of the head, the child could conceivably be strangled by straps. However, the helmet would be in a very odd and unusual position. Try to visualize where a helmet and straps would need to be positioned into order to wrap around the neck. In real life, helmets are very frequently worn in really weird positions. To explain reasons a mandatory helmet law would not work, I heard one very knowledgeable citizen describe the common "Easter bonnet" style, wearing helmets tilted far back so the forehead was completely exposed. It goes against the instructions supplied with every helmet, but it's still very commonly done, especially by kids. In fact, I earlier mentioned a good friend who used to be a major helmet promoter. (She's not nearly so adamant now.) But despite her previous professional position promoting helmets, she often wears hers "Easter bonnet" style. (I don't bother to correct her.) That's not the only possible mistake. I once saw a tri-fold helmet promotion brochure that featured a picture of a smiling kid whose helmet was on backwards. But the most ludicrous example I saw was on a recreational trail we were riding during a long bike tour. It was a hot summer day, and we came across a woman wearing a big-brimmed straw hat, probably for sun protection. On top of the crown of the straw hat was perched her bike helmet. She must have thought the magic force field extends a long way. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#26
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Sad helmet incident
On 1/19/2020 12:02 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, January 19, 2020 at 8:38:52 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote: Even on this group, we've had people who used to say helmets saved lives or prevent brain injuries. Now they piously say they wear a helmet only to prevent minor injuries. But they never ride without it. . . . because they would prefer to avoid scalp injury, skull fracture, maybe even mitigate concussion. Sounds like a reasonable thing to do. I'm going out in a bit -- wet pavement, poor traction, rough roads. Seems like an appropriate time for a helmet. Why not? Wearing a helmet does not crush my soul, enslave my head, embolden Big Helmet or pose any other existential threat -- at least to me. I also wear gloves for hand protection. You're allowed to wear it, Jay. You can justify it to yourself however you like. Ditto the gloves. But two points: First, I also ride roads that are famous - or rather, notorious - for roughness. (I can explain why in terms of state funding for county roads, if you like.) I'm sure I ride far fewer miles on wet roads than you, but I still ride them, the last time being about five days ago. It's certainly possible to do these things without hitting one's head. Since becoming an adult, the only time my head ever touched earth (lightly) from a bike crash was about 12 years ago, when our tandem's forks suddenly snapped off. I think I'm more cautious than you. Maybe that's because I don't feel protected by a helmet? Second point: The people I'm talking about say they _never_ ride without a helmet. I also know people who never ride without gloves. Really? Is _every_ ride so dangerous that protective gear is needed? I strongly suspect that most of those people will jump in a car to ride two blocks to buy a magazine. And indeed, I recall the day when I had ridden my bike less than half a mile to a store, where a guy I know said "Where's your helmet??" This mania for protection - but ONLY when traveling by bicycle - can't help but dissuade a lot of bike use. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#27
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Sad helmet incident
On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 11:38:34 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote: There's plenty of data showing that the massive uptake in bike helmets hasn't caused a detectable reduction in fatalities. That means that that thousands of people who were promoting helmets as absolutely necessary life savers were wrong. (...) I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it is very unlikely that bicycle helmets will disappear or be outlawed in the foreseeable future. Even if some neutral organization could be found to sponsor a long term study proving that bicycle helmets cause some accidents, are unsafe, and generally fail to deliver on advertised promises, bicycle helmets will not disappear from the market or from general use. That's because the PERCEPTION of safety is what sells bicycle helmets. To the GUM (great unwashed masses), one is simply not riding safely without a bicycle helmet. Visions of someone's head hitting the pavement is sufficient to inspire even the most scientifically and statistically astute parent into buying helmets for everyone in the family. Better safe than sorry, and such. As long as the PERCEPTION of safety persists, helmets are here to stay. So, what is an RBT reading geek to do? If helmets are not going to disappear, and many people seem to want helmets, then at least make them better, more functional, more usable, cheaper, and in this case, less dangerous to small children. Minor tweaks to the design of a chin strap are not going to affect global use and sales of helmets, but it might save the lives of a few kids. Drivel: Not one of the replies to my original topic on bicycle radar signatures addressed the original topic. At a minimum, I expected someone to ask about the visibility of a carbon fiber bicycle on 77GHz radar. My comment about radar reflectors was not a joke. To me, it's all very disappointing. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
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Sad helmet incident
On 1/19/2020 11:38 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Bicyclist concussions have gone up, way up, over the last decade just as helmet use continued to rise. You've made that claim before. But we know that there have been huge changes in the way concussions are diagnosed and reported, which have led to concussions "going way up" in many sports, not just cycling. Without a more careful analysis, we can't draw any credible conclusions about helmet effectiveness from the increase in reported bicycle concussions. |
#29
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Sad helmet incident
On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 11:45:42 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote: On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 11:38:34 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: There's plenty of data showing that the massive uptake in bike helmets hasn't caused a detectable reduction in fatalities. That means that that thousands of people who were promoting helmets as absolutely necessary life savers were wrong. (...) I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it is very unlikely that bicycle helmets will disappear or be outlawed in the foreseeable future. Even if some neutral organization could be found to sponsor a long term study proving that bicycle helmets cause some accidents, are unsafe, and generally fail to deliver on advertised promises, bicycle helmets will not disappear from the market or from general use. That's because the PERCEPTION of safety is what sells bicycle helmets. To the GUM (great unwashed masses), one is simply not riding safely without a bicycle helmet. Visions of someone's head hitting the pavement is sufficient to inspire even the most scientifically and statistically astute parent into buying helmets for everyone in the family. Better safe than sorry, and such. As long as the PERCEPTION of safety persists, helmets are here to stay. So, what is an RBT reading geek to do? If helmets are not going to disappear, and many people seem to want helmets, then at least make them better, more functional, more usable, cheaper, and in this case, less dangerous to small children. Minor tweaks to the design of a chin strap are not going to affect global use and sales of helmets, but it might save the lives of a few kids. Drivel: Not one of the replies to my original topic on bicycle radar signatures addressed the original topic. At a minimum, I expected someone to ask about the visibility of a carbon fiber bicycle on 77GHz radar. My comment about radar reflectors was not a joke. To me, it's all very disappointing. As I understand it radar "reflection" is largely a matter of area and angles - see discussions of radar invisibility - thus the economical response to not being seen by stop lights, etc. is a large area, probably of some sort of metal. If this metal reflector were to e painted with some bright, possibly reflective, paint it would have a two way effect making the bicycle both more visible to human and micro frequency frequencies AND in addition it might be possible to use this reflector as a sail or even as support for solar panels to aid in generating electrical power for lights, communication devices and even (gulp) propulsion. -- cheers, John B. |
#30
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Sad helmet incident
On Sunday, January 19, 2020 at 11:39:07 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/19/2020 12:02 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Sunday, January 19, 2020 at 8:38:52 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote: Even on this group, we've had people who used to say helmets saved lives or prevent brain injuries. Now they piously say they wear a helmet only to prevent minor injuries. But they never ride without it. . . . because they would prefer to avoid scalp injury, skull fracture, maybe even mitigate concussion. Sounds like a reasonable thing to do. I'm going out in a bit -- wet pavement, poor traction, rough roads. Seems like an appropriate time for a helmet. Why not? Wearing a helmet does not crush my soul, enslave my head, embolden Big Helmet or pose any other existential threat -- at least to me. I also wear gloves for hand protection. You're allowed to wear it, Jay. You can justify it to yourself however you like. Ditto the gloves. But two points: First, I also ride roads that are famous - or rather, notorious - for roughness. (I can explain why in terms of state funding for county roads, if you like.) I'm sure I ride far fewer miles on wet roads than you, but I still ride them, the last time being about five days ago. It's certainly possible to do these things without hitting one's head. Since becoming an adult, the only time my head ever touched earth (lightly) from a bike crash was about 12 years ago, when our tandem's forks suddenly snapped off. I think I'm more cautious than you. Maybe that's because I don't feel protected by a helmet? Second point: The people I'm talking about say they _never_ ride without a helmet. I also know people who never ride without gloves. Really? Is _every_ ride so dangerous that protective gear is needed? I strongly suspect that most of those people will jump in a car to ride two blocks to buy a magazine. And indeed, I recall the day when I had ridden my bike less than half a mile to a store, where a guy I know said "Where's your helmet??" This mania for protection - but ONLY when traveling by bicycle - can't help but dissuade a lot of bike use. Speaking of manias, you've made helmets your own white whale or bete noire -- pick your color. If you don't want to wear a helmet, fine. Helmets have prevented me from having more extensive injuries, so I wear one. I don't see the same deep, deep downside as you. And no, there is no giant conspiracy to pass a MHL in Oregon, so I'm not going to agonize over looming helmet laws and the possible enslavement of my hair. -- Jay Beattie. |
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