What makes a $400 wheelset a $400 wheelset?

December 28, 2003

What makes a $400 wheelset a $400 wheelset?

For my Christmas gift, I received a WTB Momentum SL Wheelset purchased from
Performance Bicycle Mail Order.

The wheelset MSRP was listed at $399.98 -- but was being closed out at $100 to
$120 depending on timing of the sale.

From my point of view.. these WTB wheelset rolls no more better than my Shimano
STX-RC winter wheelset and far far inferior to my aging $220 XTR Mavic x517.

My question is: Where are these manufacturers coming with the price points on
wheelsets? Gosh.. I cannot imagine the disappointment of paying near full
price if that were the case -- let alone $280 off suggested price.

Second question.. What should / can someone expect from a true $400 wheelset
that is not already incorporated in the WTB Momentum SL MTB wheelset -- not
that I would ever pay that kind of price. hi hi.)

Knock Shimano if you want.. but my XTR with x517now looks like a great deal at
$220 paid years ago. I didn't think so then.

Much obliged.
Nick Lee
Sparks, NV
carless since January 2000.
member of the five digit club (10,000 miles per year) every year since.

Nick Lee wrote:
What makes a $400 wheelset a $400 wheelset?

Supply and demand; and demamd is a function of the ability to hype.

In a perfect world, a wheel would be ultra light, aerodynamic, durable, and
stay true forever. In the real world, tradeoffs have to be made. Assuming
good components, good design and build quality are the most important
factors.

Are you using the same tires on these wheels as your old ones?

not that I would ever pay that kind of price. hi hi.)

Come on, Nick. You're not on 40 meter CW. ;-)

Art Harris N2AH

On 28 Dec 2003 14:55:02 GMT, (NLee1875) may have
said:

December 28, 2003

What makes a $400 wheelset a $400 wheelset?

Solely my opinion:

The existence of a market for a $400 wheelset.

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NLee1875 wrote:

What makes a $400 wheelset a $400 wheelset?

For my Christmas gift, I received a WTB Momentum SL Wheelset purchased from
Performance Bicycle Mail Order.

The wheelset MSRP was listed at $399.98 -- but was being closed out at $100 to
$120 depending on timing of the sale.

From my point of view.. these WTB wheelset rolls no more better than my Shimano
STX-RC winter wheelset and far far inferior to my aging $220 XTR Mavic x517.

My question is: Where are these manufacturers coming with the price points on
wheelsets? Gosh.. I cannot imagine the disappointment of paying near full
price if that were the case -- let alone $280 off suggested price.

Second question.. What should / can someone expect from a true $400 wheelset
that is not already incorporated in the WTB Momentum SL MTB wheelset -- not
that I would ever pay that kind of price. hi hi.)

Knock Shimano if you want.. but my XTR with x517now looks like a great deal at
$220 paid years ago. I didn't think so then.

I'm not sure what you are asking but the bearings in a STX
hub roll exactly the same as the bearings in an XTR hub,
assuming they were both new, opened, lubricated, then
adjusted properly for a slight preload when installed in a
bike and finally locked by the wheelbuilder.

Although there are various prices of everything, I don't
believe you can properly attribute bearing performance
differences to essentially identical things.

Weight, maybe. Appearance, maybe. "Pride of ownership"
(brand name) maybe. Durability possibly. But not bearing
efficiency or performance differences from STX to XTR.


What kind of rim? Who built them? Are the nipples
lubricated? Are they tight? Stress relieved? Are they
round? Is there any grease in the bearing? Is it adjusted?
Wheels here range $24.95 to $400 each as they do most
places. And if your vendor has a few hundred gathering dust
he probably got hurt on the price just like any other
product. Hell, Mitsubishi will pay you to buy certain
models right now. Pricing has so many aspects that there
are no rules.

(We sell pairs of wheels but at least we don't sell
'wheelsets' fer chrissake.)
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

In article , NLee1875
wrote:

December 28, 2003

What makes a $400 wheelset a $400 wheelset?

And what makes a $200 designer low rider jeans a $200 jeans when you
can buy an Old Navy jeans for much less?

All it comes down to is, style and demand..

A year and a half ago, not with my better judgement, I purchased a set
of nice awesome Velocity Spartacus aero and paired spoked wheels from
eBay for a killer deal. I paid something like $100 for a pair. I
don't know whether it was a deal or not, but they sure weighted a lot
less than my pair of hand built Campy Mexico wheelset 3 cross 36 spokes
laced Veloce wheelset that I wanted to replace.

When I got the new wheels and rode them, I thought I am going to climb
hills faster than my old wheels. Wrong!! What happens next is an
accelerated problem with the rear hub of the Spartacus that jams all
the time. The sealed bearings keep tighting up and then wheels start
warping. All in all, these wheels need so much care and attention that
I decided to put it on sale with my old racing bike. When I had an ad
out 2 years ago for the same racing bike with the Veloce wheelset,
there were no takers for the price I was asking. But when I had a new
ad but with these paired spoked wheels, I got calls asking whether it
was sold or not. I eventually sold the bike with the wheels for more
than I was asking for.

Phew!! Thank god, because I thought I would never be able to sell
these lousy wheels!

Good wheels I now know come from a good builder. Good builders can
always charge up to $60-100 per wheel for a premium build, but some I
know will charge less. You might think it's steep, but the durability
and quality of workmanship will always speak for themselves.

nlee- For my Christmas gift, I received a WTB Momentum SL Wheelset purchased
from
Performance Bicycle Mail Order.

The wheelset MSRP was listed at $399.98 -- but was being closed out at $100 to
$120 depending on timing of the sale. BRBR

I recommend that you have somebody true, tension, round, dish and stress
relieve these before ya ride them.

nlee- Knock Shimano if you want.. but my XTR with x517now looks like a great
deal at
$220 paid years ago. I didn't think so then. BRBR

We recommend XTR/XT hubs for all our MTB wheelbuilds, The best hubs there is,
IMO, in terms of cost, reliability, serviceability. Just make sure ya grease
and adjust them when new.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

NLee1875 wrote:

December 28, 2003

What makes a $400 wheelset a $400 wheelset?

For my Christmas gift, I received a WTB Momentum SL Wheelset purchased from
Performance Bicycle Mail Order.

The wheelset MSRP was listed at $399.98 -- but was being closed out at $100 to
$120 depending on timing of the sale.

From my point of view.. these WTB wheelset rolls no more better than my Shimano
STX-RC winter wheelset and far far inferior to my aging $220 XTR Mavic x517.

I'm also surprised by how heavy some of them are. Presumably
aerodynamics are the only technical advantage and the rest is looks.

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 21:59:14 +0000, Zog The Undeniable
wrote:

I'm also surprised by how heavy some of them are. Presumably
aerodynamics are the only technical advantage and the rest is looks.

You don't think "looks" commands a price premium? G

Been to a car dealer, electronics dealer, or furniture store lately?

Many consumer goods and vehicles cost only marginally more to build a
super-deluxe model over a base model, but the "value-added" features,
of which "looks" is a biggie, add a large markup to the price.

Explain all those cosmetic rear spoilers and truck / SUV bash guards!
G

Sexy sells! For more money!

Barry

Zog The Undeniable writes:

NLee1875 wrote:

What makes a $400 wheelset a $400 wheelset?

Marketing.

I'm also surprised by how heavy some of them are. Presumably
aerodynamics are the only technical advantage and the rest is looks.

The weight is a penalty of these wheels, the aerodynamics are
inconsequential for 99% of riding, and looks are subjective.

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:16:41 GMT, B a r r y B u r k e J r .
may have said:

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 21:59:14 +0000, Zog The Undeniable
wrote:

I'm also surprised by how heavy some of them are. Presumably
aerodynamics are the only technical advantage and the rest is looks.

You don't think "looks" commands a price premium? G

Been to a car dealer, electronics dealer, or furniture store lately?

Many consumer goods and vehicles cost only marginally more to build a
super-deluxe model over a base model, but the "value-added" features,
of which "looks" is a biggie, add a large markup to the price.

Explain all those cosmetic rear spoilers and truck / SUV bash guards!

Better still; sometimes more costs less at the retail level.

A business associate was shopping for a new Chevy van earlier this
year. What he wanted was a 3/4 ton cargo or conversion van; a box on
wheels with two seats. What he discovered, to his immense chagrin,
was that he could get a 15-passenger fully decked-out model with all
of the factory-installed interior for almost $6000 LESS than the best
price he could get on a cargo or conversion van, and every dealer had
at least one of the passenger vans in stock ready for delivery while
most would have had to order the van he really wanted. *Every*
dealer, even the ones with cargo vans in their inventory, was able to
give him a better deal on the passenger van than on the cargo model.
The best price came from a dealer 140 miles away, across a state line,
so that's who got the sale.

The seats are now on the roof of his warehouse office, in plastic
bags, waiting for the day when he sells the vehicle.

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