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#21
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Which rims for Big Apple?
Andre Jute wrote:
On Sunday, October 18, 2020 at 9:14:00 AM UTC+1, Tosspot wrote: On 17/10/2020 17:44, Roger Merriman wrote: Andre Jute wrote: It was fun reading again this old thread which Santiago has revived. Since I asked the question, I had a decade and more of experience on 60x622 Big Apples, and I don't even consider other tyres. My replacement Big Apples already stand on top of my bookshelf. On another forum I published an extended set of experiences and opinions on the Big Apples: In praise of riding low pressure tyres fast http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index....16360#msg16360 Andre Jute Chalo Colina is one smart cookie On Tuesday, October 13, 2020 at 10:16:32 AM UTC+1, Santiago Perez wrote: ¿Big Apples similar to Marathons? Yes, they're both round. ;-) I rate them as well, on my commute bike, a older MTB with panniers and so on. Do have a lovely ride quality for what is a hard wearing/glass shrugging off tyre, and makes what is a heavy bike feel lively and fun to ride. Would a MTB XC tyres give similar feel grip? Yes but it would also be threadbare in under 4 months with the miles i clock up, and in probability would get got by some glass/thorns etc. It does though slide somewhat as my routes become wetter, even more than things like Marathon plus Touring and the like, still passable but does drift a bit, and yes MTB XC/Gravel tyres can just rail that stuff. But they are as dependable as the Marathon plus touring, probably does wear a bit faster but still fairly okay at 5k generally commute tyres don’t wear out but reach a point of having too many war scars for me to trust anymore! I'd like to give them a try but on the Surly LHT with mudguards, the M+ Tour 622x47mm *just* fit under the mudguard. I suppose I could build a 559mm to try, but that's excessive :-( The bigger the rim you fit the Big Apples on in both diameter and width, and the wider the tyre you fit, in short, the more air in you Big Apples, the better they get because the lower the pressure you need to inflate to. Chalo Colina, who pulled the scales north or 350 pounds, rode 60x622 Big Apples at 2bar, about 29psi! The late builder of the most commercially viable Pedersen bike (now built by Utopia), Kalle Kalkhoff thought it so important to fit the 60mm 622 that he built a special bike without mudguards to cram them in. Presumably he rode it only on sunshine days. You do know that some of the Marathon tyres around the 47mm mark are kissing cousins of the Big Apple, don't you? I don't know which ones -- the whole Marathon scene is a movable feast which even includes the Big Apple -- but some tourers that I hang out with have had agreeable effects from lowing tyre pressure all round in various touring Marathon (something)s. The thread I linked was actually started by me when it became the Thorn official policy to promote lower pressures -- I hadn't mentioned it before because I thought every cyclist who was paying attention was past the "16bar and more if you have the beef to pump more" stage of Neanderthal prestige through suffering stage; I was quite shocked when I found out different here on RBT. (A lot of what braindead but pompous cyclists like Franki-boy and Rideablot see as trolling is simply because I never bothered to become imbued with all that ancient cycling wisdom -- which is neither relevant, nor wise. As a consequence I don't even know that I'm sawing off one of their totem poles at the ankles until they start squawking. Not that knowing would stop me, of course. They're the ones out of step, not me.) You should read that entire thread, and elsewhere on the same forum where we discussed Berto's idea of regulating the correct tyre pressure whatever the load as 15% rim drop. Personally, I pump my Big Apples at the beginning of the month to 2.15bar with an electric pump with a presettable cutout, and ride them until the end of the month when they're down to about 1.6bar and none the worse for it. I don't see the point of riding on Big Apples or whatever pricey tyre floats your boat if it requires you to fuss with the tyre pressure more often than once a month. I've been riding Schwalbe's puncture resisting tyres for about 20 years now, and in another twenty the memory of the crappy, overpriced tyres I rode before will, I hope, start to fade. Andre Jute You don't have to be weird to be a cyclist, but it is a good start. I run a bit higher with the big apples 26/2in found for the commute bike so heavy, plus varied terrain including kerb hopping, that 40psi was the sweet spot, comfortable without excessive squirming. I check them once a week or so. Roger Merriman |
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#22
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Which rims for Big Apple?
On Tuesday, October 20, 2020 at 1:17:04 PM UTC+1, Roger Merriman wrote:
Andre Jute wrote: On Sunday, October 18, 2020 at 9:14:00 AM UTC+1, Tosspot wrote: On 17/10/2020 17:44, Roger Merriman wrote: Andre Jute wrote: It was fun reading again this old thread which Santiago has revived. Since I asked the question, I had a decade and more of experience on 60x622 Big Apples, and I don't even consider other tyres. My replacement Big Apples already stand on top of my bookshelf. On another forum I published an extended set of experiences and opinions on the Big Apples: In praise of riding low pressure tyres fast http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index....16360#msg16360 Andre Jute Chalo Colina is one smart cookie On Tuesday, October 13, 2020 at 10:16:32 AM UTC+1, Santiago Perez wrote: ¿Big Apples similar to Marathons? Yes, they're both round. ;-) I rate them as well, on my commute bike, a older MTB with panniers and so on. Do have a lovely ride quality for what is a hard wearing/glass shrugging off tyre, and makes what is a heavy bike feel lively and fun to ride. Would a MTB XC tyres give similar feel grip? Yes but it would also be threadbare in under 4 months with the miles i clock up, and in probability would get got by some glass/thorns etc. It does though slide somewhat as my routes become wetter, even more than things like Marathon plus Touring and the like, still passable but does drift a bit, and yes MTB XC/Gravel tyres can just rail that stuff. But they are as dependable as the Marathon plus touring, probably does wear a bit faster but still fairly okay at 5k generally commute tyres don’t wear out but reach a point of having too many war scars for me to trust anymore! I'd like to give them a try but on the Surly LHT with mudguards, the M+ Tour 622x47mm *just* fit under the mudguard. I suppose I could build a 559mm to try, but that's excessive :-( The bigger the rim you fit the Big Apples on in both diameter and width, and the wider the tyre you fit, in short, the more air in you Big Apples, the better they get because the lower the pressure you need to inflate to. Chalo Colina, who pulled the scales north or 350 pounds, rode 60x622 Big Apples at 2bar, about 29psi! The late builder of the most commercially viable Pedersen bike (now built by Utopia), Kalle Kalkhoff thought it so important to fit the 60mm 622 that he built a special bike without mudguards to cram them in. Presumably he rode it only on sunshine days. You do know that some of the Marathon tyres around the 47mm mark are kissing cousins of the Big Apple, don't you? I don't know which ones -- the whole Marathon scene is a movable feast which even includes the Big Apple -- but some tourers that I hang out with have had agreeable effects from lowing tyre pressure all round in various touring Marathon (something)s. The thread I linked was actually started by me when it became the Thorn official policy to promote lower pressures -- I hadn't mentioned it before because I thought every cyclist who was paying attention was past the "16bar and more if you have the beef to pump more" stage of Neanderthal prestige through suffering stage; I was quite shocked when I found out different here on RBT. (A lot of what braindead but pompous cyclists like Franki-boy and Rideablot see as trolling is simply because I never bothered to become imbued with all that ancient cycling wisdom -- which is neither relevant, nor wise. As a consequence I don't even know that I'm sawing off one of their totem poles at the ankles until they start squawking. Not that knowing would stop me, of course. They're the ones out of step, not me.) You should read that entire thread, and elsewhere on the same forum where we discussed Berto's idea of regulating the correct tyre pressure whatever the load as 15% rim drop. Personally, I pump my Big Apples at the beginning of the month to 2.15bar with an electric pump with a presettable cutout, and ride them until the end of the month when they're down to about 1.6bar and none the worse for it. I don't see the point of riding on Big Apples or whatever pricey tyre floats your boat if it requires you to fuss with the tyre pressure more often than once a month. I've been riding Schwalbe's puncture resisting tyres for about 20 years now, and in another twenty the memory of the crappy, overpriced tyres I rode before will, I hope, start to fade. Andre Jute You don't have to be weird to be a cyclist, but it is a good start. I run a bit higher with the big apples 26/2in found for the commute bike so heavy, plus varied terrain including kerb hopping, that 40psi was the sweet spot, comfortable without excessive squirming. I check them once a week or so. Roger Merriman My Big Apples don't squirm even at the lowest inflation at the end of the month. But I should have noted that Chalo runs on 38mm wide rims, inside measurement, which he sources in the mountain unicycle market, and I run on 25mm wide rims, inside measurement, and furthermore that the Big Apples were designed on the assumption that users will fit them to rims at least 40 percent as wide as the nominal width of the tyre. Andre Jute Fast from the top of the mountain |
#23
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Which rims for Big Apple?
DAndre Jute wrote:
On Tuesday, October 20, 2020 at 1:17:04 PM UTC+1, Roger Merriman wrote: Andre Jute wrote: On Sunday, October 18, 2020 at 9:14:00 AM UTC+1, Tosspot wrote: On 17/10/2020 17:44, Roger Merriman wrote: Andre Jute wrote: It was fun reading again this old thread which Santiago has revived. Since I asked the question, I had a decade and more of experience on 60x622 Big Apples, and I don't even consider other tyres. My replacement Big Apples already stand on top of my bookshelf. On another forum I published an extended set of experiences and opinions on the Big Apples: In praise of riding low pressure tyres fast http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index....16360#msg16360 Andre Jute Chalo Colina is one smart cookie On Tuesday, October 13, 2020 at 10:16:32 AM UTC+1, Santiago Perez wrote: ¿Big Apples similar to Marathons? Yes, they're both round. ;-) I rate them as well, on my commute bike, a older MTB with panniers and so on. Do have a lovely ride quality for what is a hard wearing/glass shrugging off tyre, and makes what is a heavy bike feel lively and fun to ride. Would a MTB XC tyres give similar feel grip? Yes but it would also be threadbare in under 4 months with the miles i clock up, and in probability would get got by some glass/thorns etc. It does though slide somewhat as my routes become wetter, even more than things like Marathon plus Touring and the like, still passable but does drift a bit, and yes MTB XC/Gravel tyres can just rail that stuff. But they are as dependable as the Marathon plus touring, probably does wear a bit faster but still fairly okay at 5k generally commute tyres don’t wear out but reach a point of having too many war scars for me to trust anymore! I'd like to give them a try but on the Surly LHT with mudguards, the M+ Tour 622x47mm *just* fit under the mudguard. I suppose I could build a 559mm to try, but that's excessive :-( The bigger the rim you fit the Big Apples on in both diameter and width, and the wider the tyre you fit, in short, the more air in you Big Apples, the better they get because the lower the pressure you need to inflate to. Chalo Colina, who pulled the scales north or 350 pounds, rode 60x622 Big Apples at 2bar, about 29psi! The late builder of the most commercially viable Pedersen bike (now built by Utopia), Kalle Kalkhoff thought it so important to fit the 60mm 622 that he built a special bike without mudguards to cram them in. Presumably he rode it only on sunshine days. You do know that some of the Marathon tyres around the 47mm mark are kissing cousins of the Big Apple, don't you? I don't know which ones -- the whole Marathon scene is a movable feast which even includes the Big Apple -- but some tourers that I hang out with have had agreeable effects from lowing tyre pressure all round in various touring Marathon (something)s. The thread I linked was actually started by me when it became the Thorn official policy to promote lower pressures -- I hadn't mentioned it before because I thought every cyclist who was paying attention was past the "16bar and more if you have the beef to pump more" stage of Neanderthal prestige through suffering stage; I was quite shocked when I found out different here on RBT. (A lot of what braindead but pompous cyclists like Franki-boy and Rideablot see as trolling is simply because I never bothered to become imbued with all that ancient cycling wisdom -- which is neither relevant, nor wise. As a consequence I don't even know that I'm sawing off one of their totem poles at the ankles until they start squawking. Not that knowing would stop me, of course. They're the ones out of step, not me.) You should read that entire thread, and elsewhere on the same forum where we discussed Berto's idea of regulating the correct tyre pressure whatever the load as 15% rim drop. Personally, I pump my Big Apples at the beginning of the month to 2.15bar with an electric pump with a presettable cutout, and ride them until the end of the month when they're down to about 1.6bar and none the worse for it. I don't see the point of riding on Big Apples or whatever pricey tyre floats your boat if it requires you to fuss with the tyre pressure more often than once a month. I've been riding Schwalbe's puncture resisting tyres for about 20 years now, and in another twenty the memory of the crappy, overpriced tyres I rode before will, I hope, start to fade. Andre Jute You don't have to be weird to be a cyclist, but it is a good start. I run a bit higher with the big apples 26/2in found for the commute bike so heavy, plus varied terrain including kerb hopping, that 40psi was the sweet spot, comfortable without excessive squirming. I check them once a week or so. Roger Merriman My Big Apples don't squirm even at the lowest inflation at the end of the month. But I should have noted that Chalo runs on 38mm wide rims, inside measurement, which he sources in the mountain unicycle market, and I run on 25mm wide rims, inside measurement, and furthermore that the Big Apples were designed on the assumption that users will fit them to rims at least 40 percent as wide as the nominal width of the tyre. Andre Jute Fast from the top of the mountain Not measured the rims on the commute beast but they are MTB wheels if a old design, so I’d expect them to be close to the 40% It’s my commute bike, so heavy with panniers and bar bag, I do also dislike sidewall squirm ie I tend to the firmer end. At 40psi while I can feel it shift somewhat on detritus on the bike paths, and deflects somewhat on kerbs etc, fine but needs to be careful not to rim strike. Unlike stuff like the Marathon plus Touring which have very solid sidewalls. It’s the compromise which I’ll take! the Big Apples are far nicer to ride, but the sidewalls are much less supported. Roger Merriman |
#24
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Which rims for Big Apple?
On Friday, October 23, 2020 at 11:04:05 AM UTC+1, Roger Merriman wrote:
DAndre Jute wrote: On Tuesday, October 20, 2020 at 1:17:04 PM UTC+1, Roger Merriman wrote: Andre Jute wrote: On Sunday, October 18, 2020 at 9:14:00 AM UTC+1, Tosspot wrote: On 17/10/2020 17:44, Roger Merriman wrote: Andre Jute wrote: It was fun reading again this old thread which Santiago has revived. Since I asked the question, I had a decade and more of experience on 60x622 Big Apples, and I don't even consider other tyres. My replacement Big Apples already stand on top of my bookshelf. On another forum I published an extended set of experiences and opinions on the Big Apples: In praise of riding low pressure tyres fast http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index....16360#msg16360 Andre Jute Chalo Colina is one smart cookie On Tuesday, October 13, 2020 at 10:16:32 AM UTC+1, Santiago Perez wrote: ¿Big Apples similar to Marathons? Yes, they're both round. ;-) I rate them as well, on my commute bike, a older MTB with panniers and so on. Do have a lovely ride quality for what is a hard wearing/glass shrugging off tyre, and makes what is a heavy bike feel lively and fun to ride. Would a MTB XC tyres give similar feel grip? Yes but it would also be threadbare in under 4 months with the miles i clock up, and in probability would get got by some glass/thorns etc. It does though slide somewhat as my routes become wetter, even more than things like Marathon plus Touring and the like, still passable but does drift a bit, and yes MTB XC/Gravel tyres can just rail that stuff. But they are as dependable as the Marathon plus touring, probably does wear a bit faster but still fairly okay at 5k generally commute tyres don’t wear out but reach a point of having too many war scars for me to trust anymore! I'd like to give them a try but on the Surly LHT with mudguards, the M+ Tour 622x47mm *just* fit under the mudguard. I suppose I could build a 559mm to try, but that's excessive :-( The bigger the rim you fit the Big Apples on in both diameter and width, and the wider the tyre you fit, in short, the more air in you Big Apples, the better they get because the lower the pressure you need to inflate to. Chalo Colina, who pulled the scales north or 350 pounds, rode 60x622 Big Apples at 2bar, about 29psi! The late builder of the most commercially viable Pedersen bike (now built by Utopia), Kalle Kalkhoff thought it so important to fit the 60mm 622 that he built a special bike without mudguards to cram them in. Presumably he rode it only on sunshine days. You do know that some of the Marathon tyres around the 47mm mark are kissing cousins of the Big Apple, don't you? I don't know which ones -- the whole Marathon scene is a movable feast which even includes the Big Apple -- but some tourers that I hang out with have had agreeable effects from lowing tyre pressure all round in various touring Marathon (something)s. The thread I linked was actually started by me when it became the Thorn official policy to promote lower pressures -- I hadn't mentioned it before because I thought every cyclist who was paying attention was past the "16bar and more if you have the beef to pump more" stage of Neanderthal prestige through suffering stage; I was quite shocked when I found out different here on RBT. (A lot of what braindead but pompous cyclists like Franki-boy and Rideablot see as trolling is simply because I never bothered to become imbued with all that ancient cycling wisdom -- which is neither relevant, nor wise. As a consequence I don't even know that I'm sawing off one of their totem poles at the ankles until they start squawking. Not that knowing would stop me, of course. They're the ones out of step, not me.) You should read that entire thread, and elsewhere on the same forum where we discussed Berto's idea of regulating the correct tyre pressure whatever the load as 15% rim drop. Personally, I pump my Big Apples at the beginning of the month to 2.15bar with an electric pump with a presettable cutout, and ride them until the end of the month when they're down to about 1.6bar and none the worse for it. I don't see the point of riding on Big Apples or whatever pricey tyre floats your boat if it requires you to fuss with the tyre pressure more often than once a month. I've been riding Schwalbe's puncture resisting tyres for about 20 years now, and in another twenty the memory of the crappy, overpriced tyres I rode before will, I hope, start to fade. Andre Jute You don't have to be weird to be a cyclist, but it is a good start. I run a bit higher with the big apples 26/2in found for the commute bike so heavy, plus varied terrain including kerb hopping, that 40psi was the sweet spot, comfortable without excessive squirming. I check them once a week or so. Roger Merriman My Big Apples don't squirm even at the lowest inflation at the end of the month. But I should have noted that Chalo runs on 38mm wide rims, inside measurement, which he sources in the mountain unicycle market, and I run on 25mm wide rims, inside measurement, and furthermore that the Big Apples were designed on the assumption that users will fit them to rims at least 40 percent as wide as the nominal width of the tyre. Andre Jute Fast from the top of the mountain Not measured the rims on the commute beast but they are MTB wheels if a old design, so I’d expect them to be close to the 40% It’s my commute bike, so heavy with panniers and bar bag, I do also dislike sidewall squirm ie I tend to the firmer end. At 40psi while I can feel it shift somewhat on detritus on the bike paths, and deflects somewhat on kerbs etc, fine but needs to be careful not to rim strike. Unlike stuff like the Marathon plus Touring which have very solid sidewalls. It’s the compromise which I’ll take! the Big Apples are far nicer to ride, but the sidewalls are much less supported. Roger Merriman I doubt you'll get the same compliant ride without the soft ("folding") sidewalls. These soft sidewalls used to be available only on a special, more expensive version of the Big Apple, about ten, twelve years ago, but they were so successful, Schwalbe rebuilt the entire Big Apple range around them. Andre Jute Hedonist |
#25
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Which rims for Big Apple?
Andre Jute wrote:
On Friday, October 23, 2020 at 11:04:05 AM UTC+1, Roger Merriman wrote: DAndre Jute wrote: On Tuesday, October 20, 2020 at 1:17:04 PM UTC+1, Roger Merriman wrote: Andre Jute wrote: On Sunday, October 18, 2020 at 9:14:00 AM UTC+1, Tosspot wrote: On 17/10/2020 17:44, Roger Merriman wrote: Andre Jute wrote: It was fun reading again this old thread which Santiago has revived. Since I asked the question, I had a decade and more of experience on 60x622 Big Apples, and I don't even consider other tyres. My replacement Big Apples already stand on top of my bookshelf. On another forum I published an extended set of experiences and opinions on the Big Apples: In praise of riding low pressure tyres fast http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index....16360#msg16360 Andre Jute Chalo Colina is one smart cookie On Tuesday, October 13, 2020 at 10:16:32 AM UTC+1, Santiago Perez wrote: ¿Big Apples similar to Marathons? Yes, they're both round. ;-) I rate them as well, on my commute bike, a older MTB with panniers and so on. Do have a lovely ride quality for what is a hard wearing/glass shrugging off tyre, and makes what is a heavy bike feel lively and fun to ride. Would a MTB XC tyres give similar feel grip? Yes but it would also be threadbare in under 4 months with the miles i clock up, and in probability would get got by some glass/thorns etc. It does though slide somewhat as my routes become wetter, even more than things like Marathon plus Touring and the like, still passable but does drift a bit, and yes MTB XC/Gravel tyres can just rail that stuff. But they are as dependable as the Marathon plus touring, probably does wear a bit faster but still fairly okay at 5k generally commute tyres don’t wear out but reach a point of having too many war scars for me to trust anymore! I'd like to give them a try but on the Surly LHT with mudguards, the M+ Tour 622x47mm *just* fit under the mudguard. I suppose I could build a 559mm to try, but that's excessive :-( The bigger the rim you fit the Big Apples on in both diameter and width, and the wider the tyre you fit, in short, the more air in you Big Apples, the better they get because the lower the pressure you need to inflate to. Chalo Colina, who pulled the scales north or 350 pounds, rode 60x622 Big Apples at 2bar, about 29psi! The late builder of the most commercially viable Pedersen bike (now built by Utopia), Kalle Kalkhoff thought it so important to fit the 60mm 622 that he built a special bike without mudguards to cram them in. Presumably he rode it only on sunshine days. You do know that some of the Marathon tyres around the 47mm mark are kissing cousins of the Big Apple, don't you? I don't know which ones -- the whole Marathon scene is a movable feast which even includes the Big Apple -- but some tourers that I hang out with have had agreeable effects from lowing tyre pressure all round in various touring Marathon (something)s. The thread I linked was actually started by me when it became the Thorn official policy to promote lower pressures -- I hadn't mentioned it before because I thought every cyclist who was paying attention was past the "16bar and more if you have the beef to pump more" stage of Neanderthal prestige through suffering stage; I was quite shocked when I found out different here on RBT. (A lot of what braindead but pompous cyclists like Franki-boy and Rideablot see as trolling is simply because I never bothered to become imbued with all that ancient cycling wisdom -- which is neither relevant, nor wise. As a consequence I don't even know that I'm sawing off one of their totem poles at the ankles until they start squawking. Not that knowing would stop me, of course. They're the ones out of step, not me.) You should read that entire thread, and elsewhere on the same forum where we discussed Berto's idea of regulating the correct tyre pressure whatever the load as 15% rim drop. Personally, I pump my Big Apples at the beginning of the month to 2.15bar with an electric pump with a presettable cutout, and ride them until the end of the month when they're down to about 1.6bar and none the worse for it. I don't see the point of riding on Big Apples or whatever pricey tyre floats your boat if it requires you to fuss with the tyre pressure more often than once a month. I've been riding Schwalbe's puncture resisting tyres for about 20 years now, and in another twenty the memory of the crappy, overpriced tyres I rode before will, I hope, start to fade. Andre Jute You don't have to be weird to be a cyclist, but it is a good start. I run a bit higher with the big apples 26/2in found for the commute bike so heavy, plus varied terrain including kerb hopping, that 40psi was the sweet spot, comfortable without excessive squirming. I check them once a week or so. Roger Merriman My Big Apples don't squirm even at the lowest inflation at the end of the month. But I should have noted that Chalo runs on 38mm wide rims, inside measurement, which he sources in the mountain unicycle market, and I run on 25mm wide rims, inside measurement, and furthermore that the Big Apples were designed on the assumption that users will fit them to rims at least 40 percent as wide as the nominal width of the tyre. Andre Jute Fast from the top of the mountain Not measured the rims on the commute beast but they are MTB wheels if a old design, so I’d expect them to be close to the 40% It’s my commute bike, so heavy with panniers and bar bag, I do also dislike sidewall squirm ie I tend to the firmer end. At 40psi while I can feel it shift somewhat on detritus on the bike paths, and deflects somewhat on kerbs etc, fine but needs to be careful not to rim strike. Unlike stuff like the Marathon plus Touring which have very solid sidewalls. It’s the compromise which I’ll take! the Big Apples are far nicer to ride, but the sidewalls are much less supported. Roger Merriman I doubt you'll get the same compliant ride without the soft ("folding") sidewalls. These soft sidewalls used to be available only on a special, more expensive version of the Big Apple, about ten, twelve years ago, but they were so successful, Schwalbe rebuilt the entire Big Apple range around them. Andre Jute Hedonist Well yes that’s what I just posted ;-) To be honest though nice MTB tyres such as I have on the Trail bike such as Hans Dampf are as comfortable yet supportive but then double the price! Roger Merriman |
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