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Taking the lane = hazard



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 24th 20, 11:39 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 5,270
Default Taking the lane = hazard

I find it quite interesting that when I ride lane center on a two-way road with a single lane of traffic in each direction, that the most frequent hazard I encounter is a bicyclist passing on the right as I move right to make a turn. Very nearly collided with such an idiot tonight. Seems I encounter on of these every few days.

Actually, I find bicyclists in general (especially E-bike riders) are more of a hazard than what motor vehicle drivers are. At least the fellow tonight was on a regular bicycle.

Cheers
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  #2  
Old October 25th 20, 01:43 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 5,697
Default Taking the lane = hazard

On Sat, 24 Oct 2020 15:39:49 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

I find it quite interesting that when I ride lane center on a two-way road with a single lane of traffic in each direction, that the most frequent hazard I encounter is a bicyclist passing on the right as I move right to make a turn. Very nearly collided with such an idiot tonight. Seems I encounter on of these every few days.

Actually, I find bicyclists in general (especially E-bike riders) are more of a hazard than what motor vehicle drivers are. At least the fellow tonight was on a regular bicycle.

Cheers


Welcome to reality.
A number of survey's of bicycle accidents have shown that the bicycle
is at fault in a substantial percentage of the crashes. In one case
done by the CHP in L.A. country, more than 50% of the bike/auto
collisions were deemed to be the fault of the bicyclist.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #3  
Old October 25th 20, 10:07 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,422
Default Taking the lane = hazard

On Sunday, October 25, 2020 at 3:33:16 AM UTC, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 24 Oct 2020 15:39:49 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

I find it quite interesting that when I ride lane center on a two-way road with a single lane of traffic in each direction, that the most frequent hazard I encounter is a bicyclist passing on the right as I move right to make a turn. Very nearly collided with such an idiot tonight. Seems I encounter on of these every few days.

Actually, I find bicyclists in general (especially E-bike riders) are more of a hazard than what motor vehicle drivers are. At least the fellow tonight was on a regular bicycle.

Cheers

Welcome to reality.
A number of survey's of bicycle accidents have shown that the bicycle
is at fault in a substantial percentage of the crashes. In one case
done by the CHP in L.A. country, more than 50% of the bike/auto
collisions were deemed to be the fault of the bicyclist.
--
Cheers,

John B.


You want numbers that approximate reality more closely, subtract from that number
1. Cyclists unconscious when the police take the motorist's statement.
2. Cyclists already taken to hospital when the police take the motorist's statement.
3. Cyclists who are dead when the police take the motorist's statement.
4. An allowance for policemen being motorists and therefore naturally more sympathetic to motorists.
5. An allowance for policemen being naturally more sympathetic to young female drivers, a case I wouldn't mind a large grant to investigate.

Professional publicists have a saying: The first on [TV] camera controls the narrative of the event." It should be obvious to everyone here that the unconscious or dead cyclists, or cyclists already on their way to the hospital because they are more seriously hurt than the motorists, cannot give their side of the story before the narrative congeals.

Such an undigested and ipso facto pretty stupid statement as you found on the net, Slow Johnny, is also the background to your dim pal Frank Krygowski's knee-jerk response that most cyclist road deaths are the fault of cyclists and therefore we should not care or do anything about 700 plus cyclists dying on American roads every year.

Andre Jute
The Man Who Proved that Cycling is Much Safer, even in the US, than Franki-boy Krygowski claimed.
  #4  
Old October 25th 20, 10:11 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,422
Default Taking the lane = hazard

On Saturday, October 24, 2020 at 11:39:51 PM UTC+1, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
I find it quite interesting that when I ride lane center on a two-way road with a single lane of traffic in each direction, that the most frequent hazard I encounter is a bicyclist passing on the right as I move right to make a turn. Very nearly collided with such an idiot tonight. Seems I encounter on of these every few days.


Isn't it time you got a mirror, Ridealot?

Actually, I find bicyclists in general (especially E-bike riders) are more of a hazard than what motor vehicle drivers are. At least the fellow tonight was on a regular bicycle.


That I'll buy. The reason is that a very large proportion of E-cyclists weren't cyclists until they got an Ebike.

Andre Jute
Hand signals are also good
  #5  
Old October 25th 20, 02:29 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_7_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 173
Default Taking the lane = hazard

Andre Jute wrote:
On Sunday, October 25, 2020 at 3:33:16 AM UTC, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 24 Oct 2020 15:39:49 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

I find it quite interesting that when I ride lane center on a two-way
road with a single lane of traffic in each direction, that the most
frequent hazard I encounter is a bicyclist passing on the right as I
move right to make a turn. Very nearly collided with such an idiot
tonight. Seems I encounter on of these every few days.

Actually, I find bicyclists in general (especially E-bike riders) are
more of a hazard than what motor vehicle drivers are. At least the
fellow tonight was on a regular bicycle.

Cheers

Welcome to reality.
A number of survey's of bicycle accidents have shown that the bicycle
is at fault in a substantial percentage of the crashes. In one case
done by the CHP in L.A. country, more than 50% of the bike/auto
collisions were deemed to be the fault of the bicyclist.
--
Cheers,

John B.


You want numbers that approximate reality more closely, subtract from that number
1. Cyclists unconscious when the police take the motorist's statement.
2. Cyclists already taken to hospital when the police take the motorist's statement.
3. Cyclists who are dead when the police take the motorist's statement.
4. An allowance for policemen being motorists and therefore naturally
more sympathetic to motorists.
5. An allowance for policemen being naturally more sympathetic to young
female drivers, a case I wouldn't mind a large grant to investigate.

Professional publicists have a saying: The first on [TV] camera controls
the narrative of the event." It should be obvious to everyone here that
the unconscious or dead cyclists, or cyclists already on their way to the
hospital because they are more seriously hurt than the motorists, cannot
give their side of the story before the narrative congeals.

Such an undigested and ipso facto pretty stupid statement as you found on
the net, Slow Johnny, is also the background to your dim pal Frank
Krygowski's knee-jerk response that most cyclist road deaths are the
fault of cyclists and therefore we should not care or do anything about
700 plus cyclists dying on American roads every year.

Andre Jute
The Man Who Proved that Cycling is Much Safer, even in the US, than
Franki-boy Krygowski claimed.


+1

  #6  
Old October 25th 20, 05:22 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Taking the lane = hazard

On 10/24/2020 6:39 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
I find it quite interesting that when I ride lane center on a two-way road with a single lane of traffic in each direction, that the most frequent hazard I encounter is a bicyclist passing on the right as I move right to make a turn. Very nearly collided with such an idiot tonight. Seems I encounter on of these every few days.

Actually, I find bicyclists in general (especially E-bike riders) are more of a hazard than what motor vehicle drivers are. At least the fellow tonight was on a regular bicycle.


I recall seeing data, long ago, that examined the causes of serious bike
crashes - probably defined as those leading to ER visits. IIRC, 17% were
car-bike crashes, and 17% were bike-bike crashes. (IIRC, crashes caused
by road surface problems dominated.)

It's certainly true that "nice safe" bike paths, separated from cars,
cause more crashes per mile traveled than do normal roads. For our club
members, it's not even close, and we do almost all our miles on roadways.

But I have had the problem Sir mentions only once. Sadly, it was my wife
who missed my right turn signal and ran into me as I turned. It wasn't a
violent event - she almost stopped, then barely toppled, and I never
fell - but I'm more emphatic with my turn signals now.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #7  
Old October 26th 20, 02:31 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default Taking the lane = hazard

On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 13:29:25 -0000 (UTC), Duane
wrote:

Andre Jute wrote:
On Sunday, October 25, 2020 at 3:33:16 AM UTC, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 24 Oct 2020 15:39:49 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

I find it quite interesting that when I ride lane center on a two-way
road with a single lane of traffic in each direction, that the most
frequent hazard I encounter is a bicyclist passing on the right as I
move right to make a turn. Very nearly collided with such an idiot
tonight. Seems I encounter on of these every few days.

Actually, I find bicyclists in general (especially E-bike riders) are
more of a hazard than what motor vehicle drivers are. At least the
fellow tonight was on a regular bicycle.

Cheers
Welcome to reality.
A number of survey's of bicycle accidents have shown that the bicycle
is at fault in a substantial percentage of the crashes. In one case
done by the CHP in L.A. country, more than 50% of the bike/auto
collisions were deemed to be the fault of the bicyclist.
--
Cheers,

John B.


You want numbers that approximate reality more closely, subtract from that number
1. Cyclists unconscious when the police take the motorist's statement.
2. Cyclists already taken to hospital when the police take the motorist's statement.
3. Cyclists who are dead when the police take the motorist's statement.
4. An allowance for policemen being motorists and therefore naturally
more sympathetic to motorists.
5. An allowance for policemen being naturally more sympathetic to young
female drivers, a case I wouldn't mind a large grant to investigate.

Professional publicists have a saying: The first on [TV] camera controls
the narrative of the event." It should be obvious to everyone here that
the unconscious or dead cyclists, or cyclists already on their way to the
hospital because they are more seriously hurt than the motorists, cannot
give their side of the story before the narrative congeals.

Such an undigested and ipso facto pretty stupid statement as you found on
the net, Slow Johnny, is also the background to your dim pal Frank
Krygowski's knee-jerk response that most cyclist road deaths are the
fault of cyclists and therefore we should not care or do anything about
700 plus cyclists dying on American roads every year.

Andre Jute
The Man Who Proved that Cycling is Much Safer, even in the US, than
Franki-boy Krygowski claimed.


+1



Reality -

https://www.rospa.com/rospaweb/docs/...-factsheet.pdf

"about 16% of fatal or serious cyclist accidents reported to the
police do not involve a collision with another vehicle, but are caused
by the rider losing control of their bicycle."

"in collisions involving a bicycle and another vehicle, the most
common key contributory factor recorded by the police is ‘failed to
look properly’ by either the driver or rider, especially at junctions.
Failed to look properly’ was attributed to the car driver in 57% of
serious collisions and to the cyclist in 43% of serious collisions at
junctions"

"The second most common contributory factor attributed to cyclists was
‘cyclist entering the road from the pavement’ (including when a
cyclist crosses the road at a pedestrian crossing), which was recorded
in about 20% serious collisions"
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #8  
Old October 26th 20, 03:38 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,422
Default Taking the lane = hazard

On Monday, October 26, 2020 at 1:31:34 AM UTC, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 13:29:25 -0000 (UTC), Duane
wrote:

Andre Jute wrote:
On Sunday, October 25, 2020 at 3:33:16 AM UTC, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 24 Oct 2020 15:39:49 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

I find it quite interesting that when I ride lane center on a two-way
road with a single lane of traffic in each direction, that the most
frequent hazard I encounter is a bicyclist passing on the right as I
move right to make a turn. Very nearly collided with such an idiot
tonight. Seems I encounter on of these every few days.

Actually, I find bicyclists in general (especially E-bike riders) are
more of a hazard than what motor vehicle drivers are. At least the
fellow tonight was on a regular bicycle.

Cheers
Welcome to reality.
A number of survey's of bicycle accidents have shown that the bicycle
is at fault in a substantial percentage of the crashes. In one case
done by the CHP in L.A. country, more than 50% of the bike/auto
collisions were deemed to be the fault of the bicyclist.
--
Cheers,

John B.

You want numbers that approximate reality more closely, subtract from that number
1. Cyclists unconscious when the police take the motorist's statement.
2. Cyclists already taken to hospital when the police take the motorist's statement.
3. Cyclists who are dead when the police take the motorist's statement..
4. An allowance for policemen being motorists and therefore naturally
more sympathetic to motorists.
5. An allowance for policemen being naturally more sympathetic to young
female drivers, a case I wouldn't mind a large grant to investigate.

Professional publicists have a saying: The first on [TV] camera controls
the narrative of the event." It should be obvious to everyone here that
the unconscious or dead cyclists, or cyclists already on their way to the
hospital because they are more seriously hurt than the motorists, cannot
give their side of the story before the narrative congeals.

Such an undigested and ipso facto pretty stupid statement as you found on
the net, Slow Johnny, is also the background to your dim pal Frank
Krygowski's knee-jerk response that most cyclist road deaths are the
fault of cyclists and therefore we should not care or do anything about
700 plus cyclists dying on American roads every year.

Andre Jute
The Man Who Proved that Cycling is Much Safer, even in the US, than
Franki-boy Krygowski claimed.


+1

Reality -

https://www.rospa.com/rospaweb/docs/...-factsheet.pdf


Thanks, John. That's a better class of information already.

"about 16% of fatal or serious cyclist accidents reported to the
police do not involve a collision with another vehicle, but are caused
by the rider losing control of their bicycle."


That's an amazing number. One in six bicycle accident fatalities fatalities happen because the bicyclist is not in control of his bicycle!

"in collisions involving a bicycle and another vehicle, the most
common key contributory factor recorded by the police is ‘failed to
look properly’ by either the driver or rider, especially at junctions.
Failed to look properly’ was attributed to the car driver in 57% of
serious collisions and to the cyclist in 43% of serious collisions at
junctions"


Hey, Scharfie, if you serve for another term with a new budget, you'd better give out mirrors to cyclists. There's an excellent, universal-fit cheap Cateye I've used for years. Ask and Ill get you the name and number.

"The second most common contributory factor attributed to cyclists was
‘cyclist entering the road from the pavement’ (including when a
cyclist crosses the road at a pedestrian crossing), which was recorded
in about 20% serious collisions"


Okay. Now you have 36 per cent of serious bicycle accidents, including fatalities, caused by bicyclists. You're more than 14% short of the "more than 50% of the bike/auto collisions" you claimed "were deemed to be the fault of the bicyclist". What happened to the 14+%?

Andre Jute
Enquiring minds want to know.
  #9  
Old October 26th 20, 05:25 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Taking the lane = hazard

On 10/25/2020 11:22 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/24/2020 6:39 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
I find it quite interesting that when I ride lane center
on a two-way road with a single lane of traffic in each
direction, that the most frequent hazard I encounter is a
bicyclist passing on the right as I move right to make a
turn. Very nearly collided with such an idiot tonight.
Seems I encounter on of these every few days.

Actually, I find bicyclists in general (especially E-bike
riders) are more of a hazard than what motor vehicle
drivers are. At least the fellow tonight was on a regular
bicycle.


I recall seeing data, long ago, that examined the causes of
serious bike crashes - probably defined as those leading to
ER visits. IIRC, 17% were car-bike crashes, and 17% were
bike-bike crashes. (IIRC, crashes caused by road surface
problems dominated.)

It's certainly true that "nice safe" bike paths, separated
from cars, cause more crashes per mile traveled than do
normal roads. For our club members, it's not even close, and
we do almost all our miles on roadways.

But I have had the problem Sir mentions only once. Sadly, it
was my wife who missed my right turn signal and ran into me
as I turned. It wasn't a violent event - she almost stopped,
then barely toppled, and I never fell - but I'm more
emphatic with my turn signals now.



We're a diverse lot, we humans:

https://www.radio.com/wbbm780/news/b...jefferson-park

Not all behavior has a logical explanation.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #10  
Old November 2nd 20, 07:55 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,318
Default Taking the lane = hazard

On Sunday, October 25, 2020 at 7:38:23 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Monday, October 26, 2020 at 1:31:34 AM UTC, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 13:29:25 -0000 (UTC), Duane
wrote:

Andre Jute wrote:
On Sunday, October 25, 2020 at 3:33:16 AM UTC, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 24 Oct 2020 15:39:49 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

I find it quite interesting that when I ride lane center on a two-way
road with a single lane of traffic in each direction, that the most
frequent hazard I encounter is a bicyclist passing on the right as I
move right to make a turn. Very nearly collided with such an idiot
tonight. Seems I encounter on of these every few days.

Actually, I find bicyclists in general (especially E-bike riders) are
more of a hazard than what motor vehicle drivers are. At least the
fellow tonight was on a regular bicycle.

Cheers
Welcome to reality.
A number of survey's of bicycle accidents have shown that the bicycle
is at fault in a substantial percentage of the crashes. In one case
done by the CHP in L.A. country, more than 50% of the bike/auto
collisions were deemed to be the fault of the bicyclist.
--
Cheers,

John B.

You want numbers that approximate reality more closely, subtract from that number
1. Cyclists unconscious when the police take the motorist's statement.
2. Cyclists already taken to hospital when the police take the motorist's statement.
3. Cyclists who are dead when the police take the motorist's statement.
4. An allowance for policemen being motorists and therefore naturally
more sympathetic to motorists.
5. An allowance for policemen being naturally more sympathetic to young
female drivers, a case I wouldn't mind a large grant to investigate.

Professional publicists have a saying: The first on [TV] camera controls
the narrative of the event." It should be obvious to everyone here that
the unconscious or dead cyclists, or cyclists already on their way to the
hospital because they are more seriously hurt than the motorists, cannot
give their side of the story before the narrative congeals.

Such an undigested and ipso facto pretty stupid statement as you found on
the net, Slow Johnny, is also the background to your dim pal Frank
Krygowski's knee-jerk response that most cyclist road deaths are the
fault of cyclists and therefore we should not care or do anything about
700 plus cyclists dying on American roads every year.

Andre Jute
The Man Who Proved that Cycling is Much Safer, even in the US, than
Franki-boy Krygowski claimed.


+1

Reality -

https://www.rospa.com/rospaweb/docs/...-factsheet.pdf

Thanks, John. That's a better class of information already.
"about 16% of fatal or serious cyclist accidents reported to the
police do not involve a collision with another vehicle, but are caused
by the rider losing control of their bicycle."

That's an amazing number. One in six bicycle accident fatalities fatalities happen because the bicyclist is not in control of his bicycle!
"in collisions involving a bicycle and another vehicle, the most
common key contributory factor recorded by the police is ‘failed to
look properly’ by either the driver or rider, especially at junctions.
Failed to look properly’ was attributed to the car driver in 57% of
serious collisions and to the cyclist in 43% of serious collisions at
junctions"

Hey, Scharfie, if you serve for another term with a new budget, you'd better give out mirrors to cyclists. There's an excellent, universal-fit cheap Cateye I've used for years. Ask and Ill get you the name and number.
"The second most common contributory factor attributed to cyclists was
‘cyclist entering the road from the pavement’ (including when a
cyclist crosses the road at a pedestrian crossing), which was recorded
in about 20% serious collisions"

Okay. Now you have 36 per cent of serious bicycle accidents, including fatalities, caused by bicyclists. You're more than 14% short of the "more than 50% of the bike/auto collisions" you claimed "were deemed to be the fault of the bicyclist". What happened to the 14+%?

Andre Jute
Enquiring minds want to know.

There are many spots along the route I took yesterday where i have to take the lane whether because of the width of the road or the serious road defects where you can only find escape from it in the center of the lane that hasn't been broken up by wheels. Along one area along a road that is used by people returning from the golf club you have to take the lane because of the speed which you are traveling and a rather sharp turn. Now golfers are notoriously impolite at least in California, but they have learned to be rather patient with bicycles since they are becoming so common. In one downhill section where I am traveling about 35 mph (56 kph) I have to move over into the opposite lane to avoid serious bumps in the roadway and cars which use to impatiently want to pass here (despite this being an extremely dangerous spot to pass on a blind turn) now hold back and wait to pass on a somewhat safer location where the bike can move over while still taking the lane.

Who knows what is happening in Portland? Maybe this is why Beattie is so upset - his obvious superiority as a lawyer is challenged by the mentally impeded BMW drivers.
 




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