Shimano Deore LX (M770) pedal release issue

Issue is cleats releasing with very little pressure or twisting
applied, on both sides. Even when, for example, I stick knee out to
corner. Tension is turned up to max. on both sides and R/L (clockwise
toward the "+"). Same problem with standard cleats and newer multi-
release cleats. Pedals are less than a year old.

Could this be a symptom of worn cleats (I cant recall if this got
progressively worse with original cleats)?

Any tips to get these more secure....nervous going downhill esp.?

Thanks
Peter

On Nov 9, 5:36*am, Peter G wrote:
Issue is cleats releasing with very little pressure or twisting
applied, on both sides. *Even when, for example, I stick knee out to
corner. Tension is turned up to max. on both sides and R/L (clockwise
toward the "+"). * Same problem with standard cleats and newer multi-
release cleats. *Pedals are less than a year old.

Could this be a symptom of worn cleats (I cant recall if this got
progressively worse with original cleats)?

Any tips to get these more secure....nervous going downhill esp.?


Yes, it can be a symptom of worn cleats. Also check to make sure
there is not something in your shoe preventing full engagement, like
mud around the cleat or a rock, etc. -- Jay Beattie.

Thanks Jay, I asked because problem also happens with brand new cleats
(multirelease).
Peter
On Nov 9, 10:01*am, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Nov 9, 5:36*am, Peter G wrote:

Issue is cleats releasing with very little pressure or twisting
applied, on both sides. *Even when, for example, I stick knee out to
corner. Tension is turned up to max. on both sides and R/L (clockwise
toward the "+"). * Same problem with standard cleats and newer multi-
release cleats. *Pedals are less than a year old.

Could this be a symptom of worn cleats (I cant recall if this got
progressively worse with original cleats)?

Any tips to get these more secure....nervous going downhill esp.?

Yes, it can be a symptom of worn cleats. *Also check to make sure
there is not something in your shoe preventing full engagement, like
mud around the cleat or a rock, etc. -- Jay Beattie.

On Nov 9, 10:50*am, Peter G wrote:
True Chalo,

No it's not. If you are applying a large upward force on your pedal,
you foot will come off unless it is bound to the pedal. TdF riders
don't use clipless because they are making up for "poor form."
Clipless allows for better energy transfer when sprinting, climbing,
etc. Do you think world-class track racers have poor form? (answer:
no).

This "problem" has made me think more about balance and body position
and I hope improve in that area. *Still, I would like to know why
these cleats are essentially acting like flat pedals.

Is this a new problem or an old problem? If its a new problem, you
probably have something stuck in your cleat or the cleat or pedal has
worn out. If it is an old problem, it is spring tension, wrong cleat
for pedal, cleat misadjustment or even hypermobile ankles. I've got
hardware in both ankles and a mobile right ankle, so I can get
unplanned release when pulling up hard with even a slightly used cleat
because my ankle naturally rotates outward. I counter that with
insoles to try to stabilize with exercise. If I had no cleat at all
and big fat grody platforms, I just couldn't pull up. -- Jay Beattie.

On 11/9/2010 11:36 AM, Chalo wrote:
[...]
Attachment to pedals is a substitute for good form. Having migrated
over the course of many years from plain pedals, to clips and straps,
to clipless pedals, back to flat pedals, I believe attaching your feet
holds you back from developing all the refinement in your pedal stroke
and bike handling that you would naturally develop otherwise.

Foot retention keeps one's feet from falling off the pedals.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

Tom Sherman °_° wrote:

Chalo wrote:
* [...]
Attachment to pedals is a substitute for good form. Having migrated
over the course of many years from plain pedals, to clips and straps,
to clipless pedals, back to flat pedals, I believe attaching your feet
holds you back from developing all the refinement in your pedal stroke
and bike handling that you would naturally develop otherwise.

Foot retention keeps one's feet from falling off the pedals.

And getting run over by your own trike, breaking your legs.

In the spirit of traditional 'bent ingenuity and elegance. perhaps you
should try lashing your feet to the pedals with duct tape.

Chalo

Jay Beattie wrote:

Peter G wrote:

True Chalo,

No it's not. *If you are applying a large upward force on your pedal,
you foot will come off unless it is bound to the pedal. TdF riders
don't use clipless because they are making up for "poor form."
Clipless allows for better energy transfer when sprinting, climbing,
etc. *Do you think world-class track racers have poor form? (answer:
no).

How much time do you spend pulling up on the pedals? Research has
shown that even elite competitive riders spend almost no time exerting
lifting force on the pedals. That's why competitive BMX, trials,
freestyle, and downhill riders have gotten along all this while
without foot binding.

There are probably cycling disciplines in which the elite
professionals can benefit from having their feet attached to their
pedals. You're not an elite professional in one of those disciplines,
and neither is the OP, and neither am I. In strapping our feet down,
we're not helping ourselves to victory and the lucrative endorsement
contracts that come with it-- we're just forcing our feet, ankles, and
knees to do things they otherwise might not do. And we're training
our bodies not to maintain a steady footing or smooth pedal stroke,
because how would we know if we were doing it wrong anyway?

Chalo

On Nov 10, 12:59*am, Chalo wrote:
Jay Beattie wrote:

Peter G wrote:

True Chalo,

No it's not. *If you are applying a large upward force on your pedal,
you foot will come off unless it is bound to the pedal. TdF riders
don't use clipless because they are making up for "poor form."
Clipless allows for better energy transfer when sprinting, climbing,
etc. *Do you think world-class track racers have poor form? (answer:
no).

How much time do you spend pulling up on the pedals?

Whenever I climb out of the saddle, which is a lot. Even during
regular pedalling, I apparently exert some amount of upward force
because the flaccid velcro straps on my old shoes kept popping open on
the upstroke. I also generate considerable force across the bottom of
the stroke.

And even when not pulling up, clips or cleats keep my foot centered
over the spindle and aligned properly. They do not do that naturally.

*Research has shown that even elite competitive riders spend almost no time exerting lifting force on the pedals. *That's why competitive BMX, trials,
freestyle, and downhill riders have gotten along all this while
without foot binding

I don't doubt that seated riders generate very little lifting force on
the pedals. I do not agree that a well trained cyclist does not apply
a considerable amount of force across the bottom of the stroke
(scraping gum off the sole, as they used to say). That type of
movement will pull a foot backward off a pedal.

With BMX, trials, freestyle and DH, your feet have to be free to dab
the corners, etc., It is not road riding, and in fact, it is not the
kind of riding that many of us do. BMX is the silliest position on a
bike I have ever seen -- my knees would be somewhere around my ears.
BTW, my brother is a state champ old guy DH racer, and he uses a
cleated shoe.

There are probably cycling disciplines in which the elite
professionals can benefit from having their feet attached to their
pedals. *You're not an elite professional in one of those disciplines,
and neither is the OP, and neither am I. *In strapping our feet down,
we're not helping ourselves to victory and the lucrative endorsement
contracts that come with it-- we're just forcing our feet, ankles, and
knees to do things they otherwise might not do. *And we're training
our bodies not to maintain a steady footing or smooth pedal stroke,
because how would we know if we were doing it wrong anyway?

And so everyone who ever bought toe clips and straps was a deluded
poseur? BTW, people with orthotics (like me) are forcing their feet,
ankles and knees to do things they otherwise might not do on a daily
basis. I do not like what my feet, ankles and knees do on their own.
It's not good.

I ride a rubber pedal bike to the store and think its fine. I
wouldn't want to ride it for 60+ miles over hill and dell, though. --
Jay.

On Nov 10, 12:32 pm, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Nov 10, 12:59 am, Chalo wrote:

Jay Beattie wrote:

Peter G wrote:

True Chalo,

No it's not. If you are applying a large upward force on your pedal,
you foot will come off unless it is bound to the pedal. TdF riders
don't use clipless because they are making up for "poor form."
Clipless allows for better energy transfer when sprinting, climbing,
etc. Do you think world-class track racers have poor form? (answer:
no).

How much time do you spend pulling up on the pedals?

Whenever I climb out of the saddle, which is a lot. Even during
regular pedalling, I apparently exert some amount of upward force
because the flaccid velcro straps on my old shoes kept popping open on
the upstroke. I also generate considerable force across the bottom of
the stroke.


I also sometimes feel the soles of my shoes getting pulled on when the
climbing gets tough.

And even when not pulling up, clips or cleats keep my foot centered
over the spindle and aligned properly. They do not do that naturally.


And this is it for me. When I started commuting, I had to really get
in shape just to do it, and I can't spend all day at it either (though
plenty of times I get to work in a couple hours or so, and the sun is
up and the coast beckons... :-) I rode for a couple of years
basically pushing myself almost every minute. SPD pedals let me turn
cranks over and over without worrying about where my feet were getting
to.

Research has shown that even elite competitive riders spend almost no time exerting lifting force on the pedals. That's why competitive BMX, trials,
freestyle, and downhill riders have gotten along all this while
without foot binding

I don't doubt that seated riders generate very little lifting force on
the pedals. I do not agree that a well trained cyclist does not apply
a considerable amount of force across the bottom of the stroke
(scraping gum off the sole, as they used to say). That type of
movement will pull a foot backward off a pedal.

With BMX, trials, freestyle and DH, your feet have to be free to dab
the corners, etc., It is not road riding, and in fact, it is not the
kind of riding that many of us do. BMX is the silliest position on a
bike I have ever seen -- my knees would be somewhere around my ears.
BTW, my brother is a state champ old guy DH racer, and he uses a
cleated shoe.


I rode an English 3-speed with 27" 10-speed wheels and no derailer as
a single speed. No brakes on this one, BTW... and one of my
favorite... no, my very favorite run had us walking bikes to the water
tower above the golf course, riding down a few curves to the
intersection at the top of the golf course, then taking a driveway
diagonally, dropping off a dirt berm onto the cemetary, then hitting
the gravel road the rest of the way down. All I can say is, whee!
(But yeah - I liked to get a foot out to help balance on the fast
gravel turns.)

There are probably cycling disciplines in which the elite
professionals can benefit from having their feet attached to their
pedals. You're not an elite professional in one of those disciplines,
and neither is the OP, and neither am I. In strapping our feet down,
we're not helping ourselves to victory and the lucrative endorsement
contracts that come with it-- we're just forcing our feet, ankles, and
knees to do things they otherwise might not do. And we're training
our bodies not to maintain a steady footing or smooth pedal stroke,
because how would we know if we were doing it wrong anyway?

And so everyone who ever bought toe clips and straps was a deluded
poseur? BTW, people with orthotics (like me) are forcing their feet,
ankles and knees to do things they otherwise might not do on a daily
basis. I do not like what my feet, ankles and knees do on their own.
It's not good.

I ride a rubber pedal bike to the store and think its fine. I
wouldn't want to ride it for 60+ miles over hill and dell, though. --

I put the old MKS plastic pedals off of my $45 mid-80's Fuji Sundance
on my wheeljie bike - so I could ride it barefooted :-)

Chalo wrote:
[...]
Attachment to pedals is a substitute for good form. Having migrated
over the course of many years from plain pedals, to clips and straps,
to clipless pedals, back to flat pedals, I believe attaching your feet
holds you back from developing all the refinement in your pedal stroke
and bike handling that you would naturally develop otherwise.

Tom Sherman °_° wrote:
Foot retention keeps one's feet from falling off the pedals.

Chalo wrote:
And getting run over by your own trike, breaking your legs.
In the spirit of traditional 'bent ingenuity and elegance. perhaps you
should try lashing your feet to the pedals with duct tape.

Perhaps organic hemp twine with shellac.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971