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Replacing a lost toolkit



 
 
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  #31  
Old August 18th 19, 06:30 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 824
Default Replacing a lost toolkit

On Sunday, August 18, 2019 at 2:54:22 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/17/2019 2:57 AM, wrote:
On Saturday, August 17, 2019 at 3:01:47 AM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:


Actually, the one weird tool I wish I had once was the pre-load cap tool for a Shimano Hollotech crank when my son got massive chain suck and jammed the chain between the stay and the ring. It was really, really stuck, and I was going to pull the crank. I tried to back out the cap with a screw driver and just munged it up. I eventually got the chain loose, but not without marring the stay.


Did you loosen the pinch bolts first? It is standard procedure for a friend of mine who put a triple crankset on a frame not suitable for that. As a result he drops the chain regurarly between the small ring and bottom bracket and gets really stuck.


Could he use one of these?
https://www.rei.com/product/670913/t...-chain-watcher

It's worked well on our tandem for a long time.

--
- Frank Krygowski


I suggested that too, but he said it would not fit.


Lou
Ads
  #32  
Old August 18th 19, 03:59 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 6,016
Default Replacing a lost toolkit

On 2019-08-17 15:37, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, August 17, 2019 at 11:03:39 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-08-16 16:12, bob prohaska wrote:
The seat bag toolkit went missing on my bike after 30-odd years.
Unfortunately, I noticed only after getting a flat tire 8 miles
from home. As penance for my inattention I elected to walk,
despite half a dozen offers of help from other riders and one
motorist. The exercise is one I'm not eager to repeat 8-)

Beyond the obvious (tire levers, patch kit and spare tube) what
have folks found worth carrying to fend off routine trouble? My
kit acquired quite a bit more, including a chain tool, spoke
wrench and freewheel tool, along with hex keys. I don't think any
of the first three have ever been useful on the road, but they
don't weigh much and they're far easier to find if they're on the
bike. Has anybody ever had use for them, or other "shop" tools,
on the road?


Mine can be summed up in one word, Crankbrothers M19.

https://www.crankbrothers.com/products/m19

It weighs a bit much for most riders but mine sure has helped a lot
or other riders out of a pickle. Last time was Thursday. Strangely
I haven't needed it for myself yet. The other tools such as wood
pieces and rocks for hammering, nature provides.


Suggestions for a seat bag would also be welcome. For the moment
I'll put the tools and spares in the pannier baskets, but that's
dangerous as they can be removed and forgotten. Much better to
have necessities permanently living on the bike.


Seat bags slosh around too much. I carry the tools in a small
"butt pack" which rides along in the right pannier. That pack also
carries my wallet, keys, phone and stuff. If going into a pub or
shop I can whip it out and strap it around my waist.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


I have a number of different seat bags and none of them "slosh
around". I find the seat bag quite useful and love the fact that I
don't have to have a rear rack and pannier in order to carry my
repair kit. YMVFEE*


Maybe because up to 40% of my rides happen on an MTB and rough turf.
Everything that isn't solidly bolted or cinched on flies off.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #33  
Old August 18th 19, 06:35 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,231
Default Replacing a lost toolkit

On Sunday, August 18, 2019 at 7:59:40 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:

Maybe because up to 40% of my rides happen on an MTB and rough turf.
Everything that isn't solidly bolted or cinched on flies off.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


The Topeak has a plastic attachment that sometimes can vibrate the cross-seatbar attachment off. But because of the size of the bag it cannot rotate the bag into any position in which it could shake off. I use them on everything now.

There is another method that has a locking bar that is almost impossible to release even when you know how. Those work well too.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ROCKBROS-MT...8IAF 5UbXMEow
  #34  
Old August 18th 19, 07:52 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: 4,018
Default Replacing a lost toolkit

On Fri, 16 Aug 2019 23:12:55 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

Beyond the obvious (tire levers, patch kit and spare tube) what have
folks found worth carrying to fend off routine trouble?


I don't do much riding any more, but have been involved in assembling
tool, junk, and part collections in the distant past. I've learned a
few lessons that might be worth mentioning.

First, I suggest you inspect the photos under "bicycling everyday
carry kit" at:
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=bicycle+everyday+carry+kit
If you have Pinterest.com account, also look at those photos. Lots of
good (and bad) ideas can be found in the photos.

One lesson, that I learned is that, the all in one multi tool
conglomerated tools are a PITA to use and really awkward to use. They
are all attached to a single body, when often you need to use two
tools at once. Few have long enough "handles" too apply much
leveraged force. The compromise Phillips drivers fit badly in almost
the various screws. None have anything resembling a scraper, pointed
tweezers, lock raking tools, and other useful tools not associated
with bicycling.

An example of why a multi tool is a bad idea are the common metric hex
wrenches. The loose individual wrenches have two working bits. If
you round off one end, you can try the other end. However, with one
end of the hex drive wrapped around a bolt, this option is gone. You
could try to file the rounded end flat, but that doesn't work if the
file is also attached to the multi tool.

Instead of a multi tool, I carry two 1/4 hex drive handles (straight
and right angle ratchet), and a bag with about 10 bits. Also, a set
of loose hex wrenches, knife, small file (for "adjusting" mangled
parts), LED head light, plastic tire irons, chain breaker, spare chain
links, small hammer, tweezers, small crescent wrench, patch kit, extra
rubber cement, and small channel lock pliers.

In the support department, I carry a drug store first aid kit, bottle
of alcohol, extra bandages, 3 days of the pills I take, antihistamine
(Benadryl), liquid bandage, Woundseal,
https://www.riteaid.com/shop/woundseal-powder-4-applications-0351910
some cash, towel paper, tissue paper, Boraxo hand cleaner in a pill
bottle, desiccant, rubber gloves, candy bar, spare driving/reading
glasses, illuminated magnifier, SD camera card, and such. I also
carry an envelope with copies of medical and identification documents
and an encrypted SD card with online accounts and passwords that I
might need.

Another lesson is that I use my riding tool kit mostly to help other
riders and only rarely for my own use. (The first aid part of the kit
is a different story). In most cases, the problem is something fell
of their bicycle, usually a screw. So, I carry a small plastic bag
full of common screws, brake cables, cable end caps, tire valves, tire
valve adapters, spoke nipples, brake pad nuts, a seat post clamp,
pannier screws and nuts, brake lever adjustment screws, 1/16" rubber
strip (for shim or tourniquet), etc. Basically, all the stuff that
might fall off during a ride. Also, some blue thread lock, quick
setting adhesive, small tube of grease, electrical tape, small roll of
baling wire, thread, string, spare bicycle lock key, ty-wraps, sewing
kit, USB fast charger, and various USB to phone cables.

Most of this will fit in a common bicycle seat pack. Some goes in my
pockets or panniers. Notice that I do not carry spare tire tubes.
Patching is more time consuming but good enough. I wanted to add a
USB battery bank and 12x25 pocket binoculars, but I couldn't make them
fit.



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #35  
Old August 18th 19, 08:36 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,018
Default Replacing a lost toolkit

On Sat, 17 Aug 2019 09:09:10 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
wrote:

At least the multitool where the small socket tools are all attached
to the backbone can't get lost like my handle-and-tiny-interchangeble-bits
thingy. A fellow on a touring forum saw a discussion of my tools and
said he would take it on his world tour. I was forced to tell him that
he'd lose the bits before he was out of France, that such a poncey
little toolkit is only good for someone who never goes further than
a 60m from home.


Perhaps double zip lock plastic bagging the contents of the tool kit
might be useful to prevent tool loss. Maybe bring a powerful magnet
to help find where on the ground the bits landed. Bits are fairly
easy to find and replace while travelling. Those that fit in multi
tools are more expensive and can be difficult to find.

Note: I own a Leatherman Wave, but rarely carry or use it. It's too
heavy to carry and is difficult to use for bicycle repairs. I also
have several pocket bicycle multi tools that live in various
toolboxes.

I don't like the backbone things anyway, because I find them awkard
to handle, all the tools not in use trying to scratch my bike.


Yep. Same problem. I use individual tools, drivers and bits.
However, it's not because they're awkward. It's because it's
impossible to get sufficient leverage with such short handle tools.
See my rant on the topic further down this thread.

Compromise isn't ideal


See BikePacking:
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=bikepacking+gear+list

I kinda like this spreadsheet approach:
http://www.palespruce.com/bikepacking-gear-spreadsheet/
http://www.palespruce.com/wp-content/uploads/PaleSpruce_BikepackingGearList.xls
(Needs to be converted to metric).

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #36  
Old August 18th 19, 09:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Radey Shouman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,747
Default Replacing a lost toolkit

Jeff Liebermann writes:

On Sat, 17 Aug 2019 09:09:10 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
wrote:

At least the multitool where the small socket tools are all attached
to the backbone can't get lost like my handle-and-tiny-interchangeble-bits
thingy. A fellow on a touring forum saw a discussion of my tools and
said he would take it on his world tour. I was forced to tell him that
he'd lose the bits before he was out of France, that such a poncey
little toolkit is only good for someone who never goes further than
a 60m from home.


Perhaps double zip lock plastic bagging the contents of the tool kit
might be useful to prevent tool loss. Maybe bring a powerful magnet
to help find where on the ground the bits landed. Bits are fairly
easy to find and replace while travelling. Those that fit in multi
tools are more expensive and can be difficult to find.


I keep mine inside a widowed sock (put stuff in the toe, rotate a few
times, roll the top back) inside a nylon stuff sack. The sock is a
useful rag if needed.

  #37  
Old August 18th 19, 09:41 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Replacing a lost toolkit

On 8/18/2019 2:52 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

One lesson, that I learned is that, the all in one multi tool
conglomerated tools are a PITA to use and really awkward to use. ...


None have anything resembling a scraper, pointed
tweezers, lock raking tools, and other useful tools not associated
with bicycling.


Lock raking tools? Are those to acquire someone else's bicycle if yours
is giving trouble?

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #38  
Old August 18th 19, 09:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
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Posts: 10,422
Default Replacing a lost toolkit

On Sunday, August 18, 2019 at 8:36:41 PM UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 17 Aug 2019 09:09:10 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
wrote:

At least the multitool where the small socket tools are all attached
to the backbone can't get lost like my handle-and-tiny-interchangeble-bits
thingy. A fellow on a touring forum saw a discussion of my tools and
said he would take it on his world tour. I was forced to tell him that
he'd lose the bits before he was out of France, that such a poncey
little toolkit is only good for someone who never goes further than
a 60m from home.


Perhaps double zip lock plastic bagging the contents of the tool kit
might be useful to prevent tool loss. Maybe bring a powerful magnet
to help find where on the ground the bits landed. Bits are fairly
easy to find and replace while travelling. Those that fit in multi
tools are more expensive and can be difficult to find.


The problem of this particular tool, now out of production, is that it makes the weight (68gr!) by making the bits shorter than normal, so it is easy to imagine frozen fingers dropping the bits. The bits themselves are titanium, so I wonder if a magnet would help.

Note: I own a Leatherman Wave, but rarely carry or use it. It's too
heavy to carry and is difficult to use for bicycle repairs. I also
have several pocket bicycle multi tools that live in various
toolboxes.


I have a bicycle toolkit, with one tool missing from it, that lives near the Herman Miller Mirra chair in my study. The arms take a beating because when I pull or insert various plugs on the wall behind me, one arm takes my full weight, so the arms have to be retightened every year or so.

The missing tool is an 8mm socket with common 1/4in drive stub on the back, useful for changing gears on a Rohloff HGB if the cable breaks, which hasn't happened to me in ten years, nor to anyone I know, but better to be prepared.

I don't like the backbone things anyway, because I find them awkard
to handle, all the tools not in use trying to scratch my bike.


Yep. Same problem. I use individual tools, drivers and bits.
However, it's not because they're awkward. It's because it's
impossible to get sufficient leverage with such short handle tools.
See my rant on the topic further down this thread.


My problem is actually too much leverage rather than too little. My bike is steel, not plastic, but 2-6Nm torque ratings abound, and the more expensive the component, the lower the permitted torque. There's even one oil-retention stud with a torque rating of 0.5Nm, I kid you not. I do it up finger-high, which is probably already 2Nm.

Compromise isn't ideal


See BikePacking:
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=bikepacking+gear+list

I kinda like this spreadsheet approach:
http://www.palespruce.com/bikepacking-gear-spreadsheet/
http://www.palespruce.com/wp-content/uploads/PaleSpruce_BikepackingGearList.xls
(Needs to be converted to metric).


Those guys need to get a life. My idea of bike packing is to chuck stuff into the Basil Cardiff pannier basket, open at the top in my low-crime area, until it is full, or too full to take my painting gear du jour, and only then to sort it out. On a recent sorting I found I'd been carrying three small first aid kits. Since I cycle with a doctor and/or a nurse, I have no idea what they first aid kits are for.

Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558


Andre Jute
The systems approach: do as I say, not as I do
  #39  
Old August 18th 19, 10:00 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,422
Default Replacing a lost toolkit

This from Jeff caught my eye:
Boraxo hand cleaner in a pill bottle


I don't have a hand cleaning problem on my bike. i wear leather dress gloves for cycling and don't hesitate even a second to sacrifice a pair of gloves rather than get my hands dirty.

However, if I know I'll get my hands dirty, as for instance painting in oils, I use barrier cream that rinses off with cold water, no soap. I have a big tube of mechanic's barrier cream, bought at the supermarket, in the pilot's wheeled case I use as a bicycle toolbox and in each of my paintboxes a little screwed container about 1.5in diameter by 0.75in high of Messrs Winsor & Newton's hand protection cream for artists, which takes oil with it as long as you remember not to put soap on your hands before you finish rinsing the oil away, which works equally well for mechanicking on bikes. However, any of the stiffer hand creams sold to ladies will do; I especially like the house brand of the German supermarket chain Lidl.

Andre Jute
Who didn't wash the soap?

The rest is left for context. No further new text.

On Sunday, August 18, 2019 at 7:52:46 PM UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 16 Aug 2019 23:12:55 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

Beyond the obvious (tire levers, patch kit and spare tube) what have
folks found worth carrying to fend off routine trouble?


I don't do much riding any more, but have been involved in assembling
tool, junk, and part collections in the distant past. I've learned a
few lessons that might be worth mentioning.

First, I suggest you inspect the photos under "bicycling everyday
carry kit" at:
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=bicycle+everyday+carry+kit
If you have Pinterest.com account, also look at those photos. Lots of
good (and bad) ideas can be found in the photos.

One lesson, that I learned is that, the all in one multi tool
conglomerated tools are a PITA to use and really awkward to use. They
are all attached to a single body, when often you need to use two
tools at once. Few have long enough "handles" too apply much
leveraged force. The compromise Phillips drivers fit badly in almost
the various screws. None have anything resembling a scraper, pointed
tweezers, lock raking tools, and other useful tools not associated
with bicycling.

An example of why a multi tool is a bad idea are the common metric hex
wrenches. The loose individual wrenches have two working bits. If
you round off one end, you can try the other end. However, with one
end of the hex drive wrapped around a bolt, this option is gone. You
could try to file the rounded end flat, but that doesn't work if the
file is also attached to the multi tool.

Instead of a multi tool, I carry two 1/4 hex drive handles (straight
and right angle ratchet), and a bag with about 10 bits. Also, a set
of loose hex wrenches, knife, small file (for "adjusting" mangled
parts), LED head light, plastic tire irons, chain breaker, spare chain
links, small hammer, tweezers, small crescent wrench, patch kit, extra
rubber cement, and small channel lock pliers.

In the support department, I carry a drug store first aid kit, bottle
of alcohol, extra bandages, 3 days of the pills I take, antihistamine
(Benadryl), liquid bandage, Woundseal,
https://www.riteaid.com/shop/woundseal-powder-4-applications-0351910
some cash, towel paper, tissue paper, Boraxo hand cleaner in a pill
bottle, desiccant, rubber gloves, candy bar, spare driving/reading
glasses, illuminated magnifier, SD camera card, and such. I also
carry an envelope with copies of medical and identification documents
and an encrypted SD card with online accounts and passwords that I
might need.

Another lesson is that I use my riding tool kit mostly to help other
riders and only rarely for my own use. (The first aid part of the kit
is a different story). In most cases, the problem is something fell
of their bicycle, usually a screw. So, I carry a small plastic bag
full of common screws, brake cables, cable end caps, tire valves, tire
valve adapters, spoke nipples, brake pad nuts, a seat post clamp,
pannier screws and nuts, brake lever adjustment screws, 1/16" rubber
strip (for shim or tourniquet), etc. Basically, all the stuff that
might fall off during a ride. Also, some blue thread lock, quick
setting adhesive, small tube of grease, electrical tape, small roll of
baling wire, thread, string, spare bicycle lock key, ty-wraps, sewing
kit, USB fast charger, and various USB to phone cables.

Most of this will fit in a common bicycle seat pack. Some goes in my
pockets or panniers. Notice that I do not carry spare tire tubes.
Patching is more time consuming but good enough. I wanted to add a
USB battery bank and 12x25 pocket binoculars, but I couldn't make them
fit.



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

  #40  
Old August 18th 19, 11:54 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,018
Default Replacing a lost toolkit

On Sun, 18 Aug 2019 13:46:11 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
wrote:

On Sunday, August 18, 2019 at 8:36:41 PM UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:


The problem of this particular tool, now out of production, is
that it makes the weight (68gr!) by making the bits shorter than
normal, so it is easy to imagine frozen fingers dropping the
bits. The bits themselves are titanium, so I wonder if a magnet
would help.


Titanium is weakly magnetic. I just ran a neodymium magnet, salvaged
from a hard disk drive, on two titanium bolts. The magnet will barely
pickup the hardware. I don't think it's strong enough to grab the
hardware if there's any air gap.

Of course, nothing is simple with titanium:
https://terpconnect.umd.edu/~wbreslyn/magnets/is-titanium-magnetic.html
https://www.futurity.org/titanium-gold-magnet-959462/

I'm also the owner of about 6 different Zircon stud finders (don't ask
why), some of which are able to locate metals.
https://www.zircon.com/feature/primary-features/metal-scan/
It works with titanium but at about 1/5th the range compared to a
steel bolt. A stud finder might be suitable for finding titanium
hardware but only at very close range.

I have a bicycle toolkit, with one tool missing from it, that lives
near the Herman Miller Mirra chair in my study. The arms take a beating
because when I pull or insert various plugs on the wall behind me, one
arm takes my full weight, so the arms have to be retightened every year
or so.


Try some blue Loctite on the chair screws.

The missing tool is an 8mm socket with common 1/4in drive stub on the
back, useful for changing gears on a Rohloff HGB if the cable breaks,
which hasn't happened to me in ten years, nor to anyone I know, but
better to be prepared.


If you remove the 8mm socket from your tool kit, the Rohloff gear hub
will surely break. I've never torn apart a Rohloff hub, but I suspect
that you really don't want to rebuild the hub during a ride or race.

My problem is actually too much leverage rather than too little. My
bike is steel, not plastic, but 2-6Nm torque ratings abound, and the
more expensive the component, the lower the permitted torque. There's
even one oil-retention stud with a torque rating of 0.5Nm, I kid you
not. I do it up finger-high, which is probably already 2Nm.


You could add a torque wrench or torque indicator to your tool kit. I
have a good feel for how much torque is necessary and is being
applied. However, many people do not, due to arthritis or peripheral
neuropathy in the finger tips. I suppose a torque wrench would help:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-4-Drive-Bike-Torque-Wrench-Spanner-Set-Hex-Star-Bit-Fixing-Tool-2-14Nm/183791045377
AFAIK, nobody makes a bicycle tool that includes a torque wrench.

Those guys need to get a life. My idea of bike packing is to chuck
stuff into the Basil Cardiff pannier basket, open at the top in my
low-crime area, until it is full, or too full to take my painting gear
du jour, and only then to sort it out. On a recent sorting I found
I'd been carrying three small first aid kits. Since I cycle with
a doctor and/or a nurse, I have no idea what they first aid kits
are for.


I'm sure the titanium drivers will adequately compensate for the added
weight of two extra first aid kits.

Well, I know what my medical paraphernalia is for. I have a heart
condition. If I fail to take the required pills at the designated
times, I can really feel it. Exercise is allegedly beneficial, but
also capable of causing angina, stroke, heart attack, internal
bleeding, death, and other inconveniences. So, I drag my pill pile
and medical records with me on rides.

Also, my first aid kit is for helping others, which unfortunately has
been necessary a few times. I usually manage to injure myself, but
not in any manner that a pocket first aid kit will do any good.

The systems approach: do as I say, not as I do


No matter how well equipped, funded, or prepared, I always manage to
forget to bring something important on a trip.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 




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