A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Techniques
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Name of screw that holds the rear brake cable



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old August 21st 19, 05:47 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default Name of screw that holds the rear brake cable

On Wednesday, August 21, 2019 at 8:58:03 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
Ralph Barone writes:

jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, August 20, 2019 at 3:25:34 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, August 19, 2019 at 9:28:56 AM UTC-7, Chalo wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:

https://imgur.com/a/JT76Qog

That is a standard "Internal Wrenching Bolt"

This made me laugh. It says so much with so few words. It even hints
at an explanation (not to say excuse) for your politics.

A perhaps more widely understood technical term would be "M6 x 1.0 x 12
socket head cap screw".

Chalo - no one knows the size of these things if they're asking about
it. It is a STANDARD type of screw that can be bought in any fully
equipped Ace Hardware Store anywhere in the US.

By the way - It is NOT a "cap screw". It is as I said, and Internal
Wrenching Bolt. Now they are often mislabeled and you'd find a Cap
Screw in the wrong bin.

Really? IIRC, at my Ace they're called socket head cap screws. And my
Ace has a mind-boggling amount of fasteners, including SS metric socket
head cap screws for my bike -- button head and regular.

-- Jay Beattie.


I did a Google search for Internal Wrenching Bolt and they are similar to
socket head cap screws, but higher strength, with an external taper on the
head. So while I’ve never heard the term before in my life, and certainly
have never heard it used in the context of bicycles, I’d say Tom is right.


Same here. A socket head cap screw may be an acceptable replacement,
but it does not seem to be the OEM part.


Yes, but the OE part is called a "brake cable anchor bolt." https://www.sheldonbrown.com/images/vbrake-overall.jpg e.g. https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/brakes/a...-pair/?geoc=US

-- Jay Beattie.
Ads
  #62  
Old August 21st 19, 06:04 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Name of screw that holds the rear brake cable

On 8/21/2019 11:39 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, August 20, 2019 at 7:05:22 PM UTC-7, Chalo wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:

By the way - It is NOT a "cap screw". It is as I said, and Internal
Wrenching Bolt. Now they are often mislabeled and you'd find a Cap
Screw in the wrong bin.


I had to look up your laughable term to see if anybody else had heard of it. It turns out that an "internal wrenching bolt" is a Jim Crow-era NAS (US aviation industry) designation for a certain kind of cadmium-plated fastener which is by definition not metric. While the decorative head on a craptastic linear-pull brake cable fixing screw is superficially kind of similar, it's not an inch-sized, cadmium-plated, ludicrously expensive airplane part. So it's not what you say it is.

But feel free to keep doubling down.


You are perfectly welcome to invent any name you like for a common head shape. You can even tell everyone that because some have metric hex interiors instead of English size hex that it is a completely different head shape. Is there something wrong in your head for which you simply cannot agree on a commonly available part?


Tom, the point is: many of us are very familiar with bike hardware. Only
one of us seems to think we should call that thing an "internally
wrenching bolt." That's true whether or not you can find it on a page
devoted to aircraft hardware. Using that moniker is a failure to
communicate.

This reminds me of another tempest-in-a-teapot in the bicycling world.
Back in the 1980s, perhaps, some manufacturers organization tried to
change the words used for different types of bike tires. IIRC, they were
happy enough with "tubulars" but they said almost all "clinchers" didn't
really meet _their_ official definition of what a "clincher" tire was.

So they said the name "tubular" could remain, but the proper name for
what we call "clincher" was ... wait for it! ... "TIRE"!

We all know how well that effort worked out.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #63  
Old August 21st 19, 06:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Name of screw that holds the rear brake cable

On 8/21/2019 12:19 PM, jbeattie wrote:

Having looked through the fasteners at my local Ace many, many times, I can guaranty you there there is no drawer, box or fastener labeled "Internal Wrenching Bolt." Maybe such a bolt exists, but what I use on my bike is labeled as a socket head cap screw. Go to Grainger: https://tinyurl.com/y4y89fww Type in "internal Wrenching Bolt" and see what comes up. Nada. An internal wrenching bolt is some odd-ball aircraft/military fastener with inch dimensions. It's not a metric fastener. Now go to the internet and type in "internal wrenching bolt" -- and get a bunch of military crap. https://military-fasteners.com/bolts...renching+bolts


The military has a long history of unusual names. For example:

================================================== =========

"'I understand,'' the Maine Republican said, ''that there is a story
coming out about a $600 toilet seat.''

''I think that gives new meaning to the word throne,'' Cohen added
before casually dropping the subject and moving on to weightier issues,
such as space defense and NATO burden sharing.

Within hours, the Defense Department publicists had cranked out a
statement challenging the senator`s characterization of the transaction.
Actually, the statement said, the Pentagon didn`t pay more than $600 for
a toilet seat.

''We believe the senator was referring to a lavatory cover which we have
recently learned has been priced at more than $600 by the contractor,
the Lockheed Corp.,'' the statement said.

According to Nick Duretta of Lockheed`s public information office, there
is a difference between a toilet seat and the lavatory cover purchased
for P-3 patrol planes that are now out of production.

''It (the lavatory cover) is more complex than a toilet seat,'' Duretta
said."

================================================== ========


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #64  
Old August 21st 19, 06:12 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Name of screw that holds the rear brake cable

On 8/21/2019 12:42 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/20/2019 8:44 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/20/2019 8:11 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/20/2019 5:55 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 20 Aug 2019 01:39:44 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Tuesday, 20 August 2019 04:14:45 UTC-4, John B.
SlocombÂÂ* wrote:
On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 22:06:04 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 8/19/2019 11:54 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, August 18, 2019 at 5:35:56 PM UTC-7, AK
wrote:
The opening in the hex screw that holds the rear
brake cable has become much looser than it used to
be. What is the name of the part so I can order
another one? (Hopefully they have some made of
harder steel.)

https://imgur.com/a/JT76Qog

That is a standard "Internal Wrenching Bolt" and is
probably available at your nearest Ace Hardware store
in the Metric area.

Tom should go into a specialty fastener store (or just
a good hardware
store) and ask for an "Internal Wrenching Bolt."

Please report back on the look on the proprietor's face.

The proper terminologyÂÂ* is "one of them there thangs" :-)

--

Cheers,

John B.

I worked at a mine and one day a guy came into the tool
crib and asked for a part. His description of the part.
"The whatcamacallit that fits on the doohickey that goes
on the thingamajig." I was amazed that the guy in the
tool crib handed him the part he needed. Apparently that
part broke frequently.

A lot of times, not knowing the terminology of bicycle
things makes it very difficult for those who'd like to
help a person with the questions.

Cheers

Old car parts guys are/were much the same. You'd walk in
the door with
this grotty, broken, dirty, hunk of iron, and the guy
would look up
and, from across the room, say "Oh Yes, front steering
knuckle on the
1937 pickup". "Charley! There is one on shelf 113/B".
--

Cheers,

John B.


That just happened to me Saturday.ÂÂ* "I've looked
everywhere for..."

"Simplex 503. $1.95"


Or $199.00 elsewhere, I see:
https://www.ebay.com/i/113775529548

Maybe it wasn't exactly the same?



Aha! We have several libraries here. Found it!
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/simplex1.jpg

See penultimate item near bottom of page.


That demonstrates some diligence!

But it's not "internal wrenching"! ;-)


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #65  
Old August 21st 19, 06:41 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,231
Default Name of screw that holds the rear brake cable

On Wednesday, August 21, 2019 at 9:47:54 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, August 21, 2019 at 8:58:03 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
Ralph Barone writes:

jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, August 20, 2019 at 3:25:34 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, August 19, 2019 at 9:28:56 AM UTC-7, Chalo wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:

https://imgur.com/a/JT76Qog

That is a standard "Internal Wrenching Bolt"

This made me laugh. It says so much with so few words. It even hints
at an explanation (not to say excuse) for your politics.

A perhaps more widely understood technical term would be "M6 x 1.0 x 12
socket head cap screw".

Chalo - no one knows the size of these things if they're asking about
it. It is a STANDARD type of screw that can be bought in any fully
equipped Ace Hardware Store anywhere in the US.

By the way - It is NOT a "cap screw". It is as I said, and Internal
Wrenching Bolt. Now they are often mislabeled and you'd find a Cap
Screw in the wrong bin.

Really? IIRC, at my Ace they're called socket head cap screws. And my
Ace has a mind-boggling amount of fasteners, including SS metric socket
head cap screws for my bike -- button head and regular.

-- Jay Beattie.


I did a Google search for Internal Wrenching Bolt and they are similar to
socket head cap screws, but higher strength, with an external taper on the
head. So while I’ve never heard the term before in my life, and certainly
have never heard it used in the context of bicycles, I’d say Tom is right.


Same here. A socket head cap screw may be an acceptable replacement,
but it does not seem to be the OEM part.


Yes, but the OE part is called a "brake cable anchor bolt." https://www.sheldonbrown.com/images/vbrake-overall.jpg e.g. https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/brakes/a...-pair/?geoc=US

-- Jay Beattie.


The internal wrenching bold has nothing to do with the size. It has a unique head shape. I have to admit that I can't find it in the Ace Hardware catalog but I have done there in both Castro Valley and San Leandro and bought this shape head on a couple of occasions in the metric bolt area. They also had them at OSH hardware. It is absolutely necessary to have this particular shape since it puts the load across a much larger area. If you were to use a cap screw you might be able to get away with it but you're more likely to have distortion of the cable locking washer which can then cut the control cable.
  #66  
Old August 21st 19, 06:45 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tosspot[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,563
Default Name of screw that holds the rear brake cable

On 19/08/2019 12:19, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

snip

I've seen a LOT of hex-key head bolts that the hex socket was
basically stripped on so that even a proper size hex key no longer
worked on it. That can happen if a substandard quality bolt has too
much torque applied to it or if the wrong size hex key is used.

AK has said that he used a U.S. Standard hex key on this bolt and
that the head of it is NEARLY stripped to the point where he won't be
able to tighten or loosen it.

Again, his best bet is to take the bike to a bike shop so that he can
get a new undamaged bolt and also the proper size hex key to use on
it.


Worth noting the next size up torx bit hammered in will sometimes get a
rounded hex out.


  #67  
Old August 21st 19, 06:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,231
Default Name of screw that holds the rear brake cable

On Wednesday, August 21, 2019 at 10:04:50 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/21/2019 11:39 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, August 20, 2019 at 7:05:22 PM UTC-7, Chalo wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:

By the way - It is NOT a "cap screw". It is as I said, and Internal
Wrenching Bolt. Now they are often mislabeled and you'd find a Cap
Screw in the wrong bin.

I had to look up your laughable term to see if anybody else had heard of it. It turns out that an "internal wrenching bolt" is a Jim Crow-era NAS (US aviation industry) designation for a certain kind of cadmium-plated fastener which is by definition not metric. While the decorative head on a craptastic linear-pull brake cable fixing screw is superficially kind of similar, it's not an inch-sized, cadmium-plated, ludicrously expensive airplane part. So it's not what you say it is.

But feel free to keep doubling down.


You are perfectly welcome to invent any name you like for a common head shape. You can even tell everyone that because some have metric hex interiors instead of English size hex that it is a completely different head shape. Is there something wrong in your head for which you simply cannot agree on a commonly available part?


Tom, the point is: many of us are very familiar with bike hardware. Only
one of us seems to think we should call that thing an "internally
wrenching bolt." That's true whether or not you can find it on a page
devoted to aircraft hardware. Using that moniker is a failure to
communicate.

This reminds me of another tempest-in-a-teapot in the bicycling world.
Back in the 1980s, perhaps, some manufacturers organization tried to
change the words used for different types of bike tires. IIRC, they were
happy enough with "tubulars" but they said almost all "clinchers" didn't
really meet _their_ official definition of what a "clincher" tire was.

So they said the name "tubular" could remain, but the proper name for
what we call "clincher" was ... wait for it! ... "TIRE"!

We all know how well that effort worked out.

--
- Frank Krygowski


Frank, as a past teacher I am very surprised that you think you could call it "one of those things" or a "cap screw" which is a completely different shaped head. As a supposed mechanical engineer I am also surprised that you wouldn't know WHY that head has the specific shape. You continually surprise me with the mechanical engineering education of a 1st grader. Excuse me but if you don't think that things should be called by their correct designation you are pretty silly. You can join Chalo who thinks that it is a "Jim Crow Era" designation of an English threaded component.
  #68  
Old August 21st 19, 06:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,231
Default Name of screw that holds the rear brake cable

On Wednesday, August 21, 2019 at 10:04:50 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/21/2019 11:39 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, August 20, 2019 at 7:05:22 PM UTC-7, Chalo wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:

By the way - It is NOT a "cap screw". It is as I said, and Internal
Wrenching Bolt. Now they are often mislabeled and you'd find a Cap
Screw in the wrong bin.

I had to look up your laughable term to see if anybody else had heard of it. It turns out that an "internal wrenching bolt" is a Jim Crow-era NAS (US aviation industry) designation for a certain kind of cadmium-plated fastener which is by definition not metric. While the decorative head on a craptastic linear-pull brake cable fixing screw is superficially kind of similar, it's not an inch-sized, cadmium-plated, ludicrously expensive airplane part. So it's not what you say it is.

But feel free to keep doubling down.


You are perfectly welcome to invent any name you like for a common head shape. You can even tell everyone that because some have metric hex interiors instead of English size hex that it is a completely different head shape. Is there something wrong in your head for which you simply cannot agree on a commonly available part?


Tom, the point is: many of us are very familiar with bike hardware. Only
one of us seems to think we should call that thing an "internally
wrenching bolt." That's true whether or not you can find it on a page
devoted to aircraft hardware. Using that moniker is a failure to
communicate.

This reminds me of another tempest-in-a-teapot in the bicycling world.
Back in the 1980s, perhaps, some manufacturers organization tried to
change the words used for different types of bike tires. IIRC, they were
happy enough with "tubulars" but they said almost all "clinchers" didn't
really meet _their_ official definition of what a "clincher" tire was.

So they said the name "tubular" could remain, but the proper name for
what we call "clincher" was ... wait for it! ... "TIRE"!

We all know how well that effort worked out.

--
- Frank Krygowski


Frank, as a past teacher I am very surprised that you think you could call it "one of those things" or a "cap screw" which is a completely different shaped head. As a supposed mechanical engineer I am also surprised that you wouldn't know WHY that head has the specific shape. You continually surprise me with the mechanical engineering education of a 1st grader. Excuse me but if you don't think that things should be called by their correct designation you are pretty silly. You can join Chalo who thinks that it is a "Jim Crow Era" designation of an English threaded component.
  #69  
Old August 21st 19, 07:17 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,270
Default Name of screw that holds the rear brake cable

On Wednesday, 21 August 2019 12:19:50 UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, August 21, 2019 at 8:32:57 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, August 20, 2019 at 5:19:21 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, August 20, 2019 at 3:25:34 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, August 19, 2019 at 9:28:56 AM UTC-7, Chalo wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:

https://imgur.com/a/JT76Qog

That is a standard "Internal Wrenching Bolt"

This made me laugh. It says so much with so few words. It even hints at an explanation (not to say excuse) for your politics.

A perhaps more widely understood technical term would be "M6 x 1.0 x 12 socket head cap screw".

Chalo - no one knows the size of these things if they're asking about it. It is a STANDARD type of screw that can be bought in any fully equipped Ace Hardware Store anywhere in the US.

By the way - It is NOT a "cap screw". It is as I said, and Internal Wrenching Bolt. Now they are often mislabeled and you'd find a Cap Screw in the wrong bin.

Really? IIRC, at my Ace they're called socket head cap screws. And my Ace has a mind-boggling amount of fasteners, including SS metric socket head cap screws for my bike -- button head and regular.

-- Jay Beattie.


So, you found it at the Ace Hardware but because they mislabeled it you want to take their name for it rather than the proper one that you can look up on-line? This is why it is so easy to laugh at you.


Having looked through the fasteners at my local Ace many, many times, I can guaranty you there there is no drawer, box or fastener labeled "Internal Wrenching Bolt." Maybe such a bolt exists, but what I use on my bike is labeled as a socket head cap screw. Go to Grainger: https://tinyurl.com/y4y89fww Type in "internal Wrenching Bolt" and see what comes up. Nada. An internal wrenching bolt is some odd-ball aircraft/military fastener with inch dimensions. It's not a metric fastener. Now go to the internet and type in "internal wrenching bolt" -- and get a bunch of military crap. https://military-fasteners.com/bolts...renching+bolts

-- Jay Beattie.

-- Jay Beattie.


I looked online at diagrams of V-brakes and their parts and the bolt is simply labelled a cable anchor bolt.

Cheers
  #70  
Old August 21st 19, 07:22 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Name of screw that holds the rear brake cable

On 8/21/2019 1:46 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, August 21, 2019 at 10:04:50 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/21/2019 11:39 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, August 20, 2019 at 7:05:22 PM UTC-7, Chalo wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:

By the way - It is NOT a "cap screw". It is as I said, and Internal
Wrenching Bolt. Now they are often mislabeled and you'd find a Cap
Screw in the wrong bin.

I had to look up your laughable term to see if anybody else had heard of it. It turns out that an "internal wrenching bolt" is a Jim Crow-era NAS (US aviation industry) designation for a certain kind of cadmium-plated fastener which is by definition not metric. While the decorative head on a craptastic linear-pull brake cable fixing screw is superficially kind of similar, it's not an inch-sized, cadmium-plated, ludicrously expensive airplane part. So it's not what you say it is.

But feel free to keep doubling down.

You are perfectly welcome to invent any name you like for a common head shape. You can even tell everyone that because some have metric hex interiors instead of English size hex that it is a completely different head shape. Is there something wrong in your head for which you simply cannot agree on a commonly available part?


Tom, the point is: many of us are very familiar with bike hardware. Only
one of us seems to think we should call that thing an "internally
wrenching bolt." That's true whether or not you can find it on a page
devoted to aircraft hardware. Using that moniker is a failure to
communicate.

This reminds me of another tempest-in-a-teapot in the bicycling world.
Back in the 1980s, perhaps, some manufacturers organization tried to
change the words used for different types of bike tires. IIRC, they were
happy enough with "tubulars" but they said almost all "clinchers" didn't
really meet _their_ official definition of what a "clincher" tire was.

So they said the name "tubular" could remain, but the proper name for
what we call "clincher" was ... wait for it! ... "TIRE"!

We all know how well that effort worked out.

--
- Frank Krygowski


Frank, as a past teacher I am very surprised that you think you could call it "one of those things" or a "cap screw" which is a completely different shaped head. As a supposed mechanical engineer I am also surprised that you wouldn't know WHY that head has the specific shape. You continually surprise me with the mechanical engineering education of a 1st grader. Excuse me but if you don't think that things should be called by their correct designation you are pretty silly. You can join Chalo who thinks that it is a "Jim Crow Era" designation of an English threaded component.


Here are the relevant questions:

Have you tried walking into a bike shop and asking for an "Internally
Wrenched Bolt" in the appropriate size (which is probably 5mm x 0.8, or
maybe 6mm x 1.0)?

Have you tried that at a hardware store?

If so, what were the responses?

If not, why don't you try those and report back?

I maintain that it's silly to insist on an "official name" that is
almost universally unrecognized.

--
- Frank Krygowski
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
brake adjust screw (screw with hole and cylinder) Emanuel Berg[_2_] Techniques 5 May 22nd 18 08:57 PM
Converting a Brake Cable To a Shifter Cable Bret Cahill Techniques 42 March 8th 07 09:43 PM
Campagnolo brake cable sheath & brake receptacle doesn't fit Artoi Techniques 2 November 2nd 06 08:22 PM
What screw to attach C'dale BB cable guide? Hank Wirtz Techniques 6 August 22nd 05 02:30 AM
Rear rack which holds U-Lock? Gooserider General 10 June 30th 04 12:02 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.