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Not completely sold on wide tires



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 20th 21, 03:27 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 5,697
Default Not completely sold on wide tires

On Thu, 20 May 2021 02:05:35 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

John B. wrote:
On Wed, 19 May 2021 16:53:25 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Thu, 20 May 2021 06:00:36 +0700, John B.
wrote:


But are U.S. roads really that bad?

https://www.cityworks.com/blog/10-fascinating-facts-about-potholes/
"There are an estimated 55 million potholes in the U.S."

There are 4.18 million miles of roads in the US. That would be:
55 million / 4.18 million = 13 potholes per mile
or one pothole every 406 ft. I'm not sure if that's considered bad,
but from my local observations, seems a bit conservative.

Of course, some potholes are larger than others:
https://www.google.com/search?q=sinkhole&tbm=isch

Drivel: Many years ago, I engaged in a series of discusions where I
claimed that potholes are alive and are really ancient dinosaur
tracks:
http://members.cruzio.com/~jeffl/nooze/pothole.txt


Goodness, the richest nation in the world and you have bad roads :-)


It’s hard to make people rich if you actually tax people and spend it on
infrastructure.


Well, as I said in a recent discussion we paid 200 baht (US$6.34) tax
on two houses this year and the roads here are NOT covered with "pot
holes"
--
Cheers,

John B.

Ads
  #12  
Old May 20th 21, 03:32 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 5,697
Default Not completely sold on wide tires

On Wed, 19 May 2021 21:06:37 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 5/19/2021 8:44 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 19 May 2021 16:53:25 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Thu, 20 May 2021 06:00:36 +0700, John B.
wrote:


But are U.S. roads really that bad?

https://www.cityworks.com/blog/10-fascinating-facts-about-potholes/
"There are an estimated 55 million potholes in the U.S."

There are 4.18 million miles of roads in the US. That would be:
55 million / 4.18 million = 13 potholes per mile
or one pothole every 406 ft. I'm not sure if that's considered bad,
but from my local observations, seems a bit conservative.

Of course, some potholes are larger than others:
https://www.google.com/search?q=sinkhole&tbm=isch

Drivel: Many years ago, I engaged in a series of discusions where I
claimed that potholes are alive and are really ancient dinosaur
tracks:
http://members.cruzio.com/~jeffl/nooze/pothole.txt


Goodness, the richest nation in the world and you have bad roads :-)


Naturally.
Road construction and maintenance has become a racket,
wherein more money only makes the roads worse. And the worse
they are, the easier it is to arrange more money.


Must be y'all are doing something wrong back there. Here where bribery
and corruption is commonplace we still have good roads :-)

--
Cheers,

John B.

  #13  
Old May 20th 21, 04:15 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,511
Default Not completely sold on wide tires

On Wednesday, May 19, 2021 at 7:00:47 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:

But are U.S. roads really that bad? Here I can't remember riding on a
really bad road. Even in Bangkok, which probably had the first paved
roads in the country, I never came across a road as poorly
made.maintained as the one that Jay posted the photo of.


Are U.S. roads really that bad? Well, they vary.

Roads in our state have complicated jurisdiction. Within a mile of me are roads owned by our
village, by a neighboring township, by a neighboring city, by the county and by the state.

Our county roads are often in bad shape. One reason is the state has a fund to help maintain
county roads. The fund is evenly divided among the state's 88 counties. But our county, being
one of the earliest settled, has many more miles of county road then most. That means our
county gets much less per mile.

I'm leading an unusual club ride in a few days. We'll visit about seven historic cemeteries plus
a couple other historic sites, so it requires stitching together a pretty complicated
inner-city route. I just spent quite a while exploring alternatives to one of the bumpiest streets
I've ever seen.

- Frank Krygowski
  #14  
Old May 20th 21, 05:05 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default Not completely sold on wide tires

On Wed, 19 May 2021 20:15:53 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Wednesday, May 19, 2021 at 7:00:47 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:

But are U.S. roads really that bad? Here I can't remember riding on a
really bad road. Even in Bangkok, which probably had the first paved
roads in the country, I never came across a road as poorly
made.maintained as the one that Jay posted the photo of.


Are U.S. roads really that bad? Well, they vary.

Roads in our state have complicated jurisdiction. Within a mile of me are roads owned by our
village, by a neighboring township, by a neighboring city, by the county and by the state.

Our county roads are often in bad shape. One reason is the state has a fund to help maintain
county roads. The fund is evenly divided among the state's 88 counties. But our county, being
one of the earliest settled, has many more miles of county road then most. That means our
county gets much less per mile.

I'm leading an unusual club ride in a few days. We'll visit about seven historic cemeteries plus
a couple other historic sites, so it requires stitching together a pretty complicated
inner-city route. I just spent quite a while exploring alternatives to one of the bumpiest streets
I've ever seen.

- Frank Krygowski


I grew up in "up state" New Hampshire and I don't remember a lot of
"pot holes". We did have a lot of dirt roads and they get bumpy toward
the end of summer and of course are muddy in the spring. Granted it
has been a long time since I was there and memory is fallible but I do
remember that the roughest road around was a concrete road where the
frost had "heaved" the sections and there was a bump at the edge of
each concrete section.

--
Cheers,

John B.

  #15  
Old May 20th 21, 05:57 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,018
Default Not completely sold on wide tires

On Thu, 20 May 2021 08:44:11 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Wed, 19 May 2021 16:53:25 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Thu, 20 May 2021 06:00:36 +0700, John B.
wrote:


But are U.S. roads really that bad?


https://www.cityworks.com/blog/10-fascinating-facts-about-potholes/
"There are an estimated 55 million potholes in the U.S."

There are 4.18 million miles of roads in the US. That would be:
55 million / 4.18 million = 13 potholes per mile
or one pothole every 406 ft. I'm not sure if that's considered bad,
but from my local observations, seems a bit conservative.

Of course, some potholes are larger than others:
https://www.google.com/search?q=sinkhole&tbm=isch

Drivel: Many years ago, I engaged in a series of discusions where I
claimed that potholes are alive and are really ancient dinosaur
tracks:
http://members.cruzio.com/~jeffl/nooze/pothole.txt


Goodness, the richest nation in the world and you have bad roads :-)


Sorta. The quality of the roads are reduced to the minimal acceptable
level. Any lower and the phones start to ring in various elected
officials offices, which is deemed to be a really bad thing. So, the
roads deteriorate until the phones ring. They then get patched back
together, usually with a parade of cars stuck in the inevitable
traffic jam, where the plan is to give the drivers the best possible
view of the new construction. Of course, there's a shiny new sign,
often quite huge, announcing that the road improvements were paid for
by a road improvement bond sponsored by various elected officials
itemized on the sign. Recently, there's been a new innovation, where
the state installs the signs, but there's no road repair. I don't
recall the exact wording, but it says something like this off ramp or
road MIGHT be close at some random day and time over about a 9 month
period. I guess it pays to advertise.

One might speculate that the reason the US is the richest nation on
the planet is because we don't waste money maintaining anything.
That's largely true as there always seems to be money available for
capital expenses such as new projects, new roads, new construction,
etc, but little or nothing for maintenance and repairs. In general,
the repairs are funded by "emergency" measures, usually after a
weather related disaster or a relative of a very important person
submerges his Tesla into a pothole. (No, this is not a joke. This is
the way it really works).

A variation of this problem is what it takes to get a new $200,000
traffic signal plus $6,000 per year electricity and maintenance
installed near a school. The rule of thumb was to kill at least one
student, or injure about five students, in order to qualify for
funding to install a crosswalk signal. However, if a driver is
injured, or a car is totaled, that increased the funding from a
crosswalk flashing light, to a full features pedestrian and traffic
controlled intersection.

This is an example of why you don't want to know how sausage and
traffic signals are made.

Incidentally, the pot holes on the road from the main highway to my
house has the potholes filled by the county, usually immediately after
the first major winter storm. Originally, this was because one of the
county supervisors lived in the area. However, that was long ago, and
we just didn't have the heart to tell the country public works
department that he's no longer a supervisor and no longer living on
the road. Also, in the city of Santa Cruz, the newly elected city
council members have the street in front of their houses resurfaced
after the election. The city public works department considers the
road work to be one of the perks of being elected.


--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #16  
Old May 20th 21, 06:25 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default Not completely sold on wide tires

On Wed, 19 May 2021 21:57:47 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Thu, 20 May 2021 08:44:11 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Wed, 19 May 2021 16:53:25 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Thu, 20 May 2021 06:00:36 +0700, John B.
wrote:


But are U.S. roads really that bad?

https://www.cityworks.com/blog/10-fascinating-facts-about-potholes/
"There are an estimated 55 million potholes in the U.S."

There are 4.18 million miles of roads in the US. That would be:
55 million / 4.18 million = 13 potholes per mile
or one pothole every 406 ft. I'm not sure if that's considered bad,
but from my local observations, seems a bit conservative.

Of course, some potholes are larger than others:
https://www.google.com/search?q=sinkhole&tbm=isch

Drivel: Many years ago, I engaged in a series of discusions where I
claimed that potholes are alive and are really ancient dinosaur
tracks:
http://members.cruzio.com/~jeffl/nooze/pothole.txt


Goodness, the richest nation in the world and you have bad roads :-)


Sorta. The quality of the roads are reduced to the minimal acceptable
level. Any lower and the phones start to ring in various elected
officials offices, which is deemed to be a really bad thing. So, the
roads deteriorate until the phones ring. They then get patched back
together, usually with a parade of cars stuck in the inevitable
traffic jam, where the plan is to give the drivers the best possible
view of the new construction. Of course, there's a shiny new sign,
often quite huge, announcing that the road improvements were paid for
by a road improvement bond sponsored by various elected officials
itemized on the sign. Recently, there's been a new innovation, where
the state installs the signs, but there's no road repair. I don't
recall the exact wording, but it says something like this off ramp or
road MIGHT be close at some random day and time over about a 9 month
period. I guess it pays to advertise.

One might speculate that the reason the US is the richest nation on
the planet is because we don't waste money maintaining anything.
That's largely true as there always seems to be money available for
capital expenses such as new projects, new roads, new construction,
etc, but little or nothing for maintenance and repairs. In general,
the repairs are funded by "emergency" measures, usually after a
weather related disaster or a relative of a very important person
submerges his Tesla into a pothole. (No, this is not a joke. This is
the way it really works).

A variation of this problem is what it takes to get a new $200,000
traffic signal plus $6,000 per year electricity and maintenance
installed near a school. The rule of thumb was to kill at least one
student, or injure about five students, in order to qualify for
funding to install a crosswalk signal. However, if a driver is
injured, or a car is totaled, that increased the funding from a
crosswalk flashing light, to a full features pedestrian and traffic
controlled intersection.

This is an example of why you don't want to know how sausage and
traffic signals are made.

Actually I do know how sausage is made, or at least the Thai
equivalent. Two of my wife's brothers sort of inherited an abattoir
(slaughterhouse). The good cuts of meat have a market, hides and horns
have a market, but what to do with the rest? One reason they got rich
was that they figured out an answer to the question :-) which is why I
don't eat sausage :-)

Incidentally, the pot holes on the road from the main highway to my
house has the potholes filled by the county, usually immediately after
the first major winter storm. Originally, this was because one of the
county supervisors lived in the area. However, that was long ago, and
we just didn't have the heart to tell the country public works
department that he's no longer a supervisor and no longer living on
the road. Also, in the city of Santa Cruz, the newly elected city
council members have the street in front of their houses resurfaced
after the election. The city public works department considers the
road work to be one of the perks of being elected.


Way back when I was in school we got to attend Town Meetings - the
town still had the old fashioned type of government where they elected
a "Select Man" and several others, "Highway Manager" Water Works
Manager, etc., to run the town and the first order of battle was for
the individual managers to get up and answer questions from the
electorate. I can assure you that when you have to explain to Mrs.
Jones why her street was plowed after Mrs. Smith's street was plowed
you WILL evolve a better system, or at least a better excuse :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #17  
Old May 20th 21, 12:10 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Roger Merriman[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 385
Default Not completely sold on wide tires

John B. wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2021 15:18:49 -0700 (PDT), Mark cleary
wrote:

I might be in a real minority now. I run 23 and 25mm Conti GP 5000
strictly road bike. I do like the 25's and a bit lower pressure but I
sure cannot see going to 28's and dropping pressure even more. Right now
I run about 95-86 rear and front on the 25's. Going much lower to me
would seem pinch flats, I weigh 169 pounds, at least if you hit a big
hole. Then I can see more weight and less aero. I am the only only one
not buying this go as low as you can, and wide.
Deacon Mark


I went for that "fatter tires and less pressure" scheme and had a
number of pinch flats so went back to the 23's and 100 psi front and
back and (knock on wood) haven't had a flat since :-)

But I ride on paved roads which are generally in good condition and
frankly can see little difference in the ride between 25's with lower
pressure and 23's at 100 psi. But then, I rode "sew ups" for quite a
few years and was quite happy with them too:-)


I only ever pinch flatted on 25/23mm tires at 100+ As essentially not
enough between road and rim, one of my club mates has dinged his rims the
other week due to a potholes.

On the Gravel bike with 35mm at 50psi plenty of space between road and rim.
So potholes are generally just swallowed, with out issues, and as far as I
can tell from Strava ie times up hills etc no slower than the pure road
bikes I’ve had previously.

Doesn’t have that high pressure zing which is lovely on fresh tarmac!

But frankly I’m sold on the gravel bike, I’m less convinced by the ones
closer to MTB with 50mm or thereabouts tires I suspect they would feel too
sluggish on the road and a XC MTB is still better down the woods, where as
the 30/40mm gravel bikes are jack of all trade.

Roger Merriman.

  #18  
Old May 20th 21, 04:55 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default Not completely sold on wide tires

On 5/19/2021 6:44 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 19 May 2021 16:53:25 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Thu, 20 May 2021 06:00:36 +0700, John B.
wrote:


But are U.S. roads really that bad?


https://www.cityworks.com/blog/10-fascinating-facts-about-potholes/
"There are an estimated 55 million potholes in the U.S."

There are 4.18 million miles of roads in the US. That would be:
55 million / 4.18 million = 13 potholes per mile
or one pothole every 406 ft. I'm not sure if that's considered bad,
but from my local observations, seems a bit conservative.

Of course, some potholes are larger than others:
https://www.google.com/search?q=sinkhole&tbm=isch

Drivel: Many years ago, I engaged in a series of discusions where I
claimed that potholes are alive and are really ancient dinosaur
tracks:
http://members.cruzio.com/~jeffl/nooze/pothole.txt


Goodness, the richest nation in the world and you have bad roads :-)


I recall about two years ago, when I was the mayor of my city, we had a
group of students from China visiting. When they were leaving we had
them come to a city council meeting for a farewell ceremony of sorts. I
asked one of them what he liked best and least about the U.S.. What he
liked least was the road quality! If you've been to China, you'll find
that the freeway road surfaces are extremely smooth and in near perfect
condition.



  #19  
Old May 20th 21, 05:29 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Not completely sold on wide tires

On 5/20/2021 12:57 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Incidentally, the pot holes on the road from the main highway to my
house has the potholes filled by the county, usually immediately after
the first major winter storm. Originally, this was because one of the
county supervisors lived in the area. However, that was long ago, and
we just didn't have the heart to tell the country public works
department that he's no longer a supervisor and no longer living on
the road. Also, in the city of Santa Cruz, the newly elected city
council members have the street in front of their houses resurfaced
after the election. The city public works department considers the
road work to be one of the perks of being elected.


Corroboration: A few years ago, our dimwitted village mayor had his
photograph taken on a terribly potholed village street, as a way to
publicize the need for a new village street repair levy.

The street he chose for the photo? Mine! It had hundreds of picturesque
potholes.

The levy passed. The first street to get repaved? His! That is, the
street where the mayor lived.

It was three years before our street's picturesque potholes got a proper
repaving job.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #20  
Old May 20th 21, 05:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,270
Default Not completely sold on wide tires

On Thursday, May 20, 2021 at 7:10:10 a.m. UTC-4, Roger Merriman wrote:
John B. wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2021 15:18:49 -0700 (PDT), Mark cleary
wrote:

I might be in a real minority now. I run 23 and 25mm Conti GP 5000
strictly road bike. I do like the 25's and a bit lower pressure but I
sure cannot see going to 28's and dropping pressure even more. Right now
I run about 95-86 rear and front on the 25's. Going much lower to me
would seem pinch flats, I weigh 169 pounds, at least if you hit a big
hole. Then I can see more weight and less aero. I am the only only one
not buying this go as low as you can, and wide.
Deacon Mark


I went for that "fatter tires and less pressure" scheme and had a
number of pinch flats so went back to the 23's and 100 psi front and
back and (knock on wood) haven't had a flat since :-)

But I ride on paved roads which are generally in good condition and
frankly can see little difference in the ride between 25's with lower
pressure and 23's at 100 psi. But then, I rode "sew ups" for quite a
few years and was quite happy with them too:-)

I only ever pinch flatted on 25/23mm tires at 100+ As essentially not
enough between road and rim, one of my club mates has dinged his rims the
other week due to a potholes.

On the Gravel bike with 35mm at 50psi plenty of space between road and rim.
So potholes are generally just swallowed, with out issues, and as far as I
can tell from Strava ie times up hills etc no slower than the pure road
bikes I’ve had previously.

Doesn’t have that high pressure zing which is lovely on fresh tarmac!

But frankly I’m sold on the gravel bike, I’m less convinced by the ones
closer to MTB with 50mm or thereabouts tires I suspect they would feel too
sluggish on the road and a XC MTB is still better down the woods, where as
the 30/40mm gravel bikes are jack of all trade.

Roger Merriman.


I have a few rigid frame/rigid fork MTBs converted to drop bar. If I run 1.5" (about 38mm) slick type tires on pavement they're a fantastic heavy duty touring bike. Or I can put on 2.125" (@57mm) knobby tires for off road touring.

Different folks have different needs and/or wants. Some people love the feel riding on a 19mm tires pumped up really hard.

Cheers
 




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