relative cost/usage between bicycle tires and automobile tires

Peter Cole wrote:
"carlfogel" wrote
Dear Anon,

I understand that, on a weight basis, many of the garments available
from Victoria's Secret are scandalously overpriced and flimsy when
compared to sturdy coveralls.

Equally outraged,

Carl Fogel
I've noticed many older cyclists seem to have replaced women with bikes
as fetish objects. Is it an ED thing?


Dear Peter

Hmm . . . I see no bicycles in my post

Possibly you treated my salacious maunderings as a Rorschach ink blo
test and read something into it from the depths of your own depraved-

Never mind

Carl Foge


-

Rapunzel wrote:
carlfogel wrote:
VS undies vs Overalls, they both have a very different mission in life,
don't they???
Just like car tires and bicycle tires.
Bernice
Dear Anon,

I understand that, on a weight basis, many of the garments available
from Victoria's Secret are scandalously overpriced and flimsy when
compared to sturdy coveralls.

Equally outraged,

Carl Fogel


Dear Bernice

Alas, the mission is entirely the same from the male perspective. We ar
convinced that that you would look entrancing attired in a gunny-sack

"The creator and arbiter of beauty is the heart; to the male rattlesnak
the female rattlesnake is the loveliest thing in nature.
-- Ambrose Bierc

Your helpless admirer

Carl Foge


-

Rapunzel wrote:
carlfogel wrote:
VS undies vs Overalls, they both have a very different mission in life,
don't they???
Just like car tires and bicycle tires.
Bernice
Dear Anon,

I understand that, on a weight basis, many of the garments available
from Victoria's Secret are scandalously overpriced and flimsy when
compared to sturdy coveralls.

Equally outraged,

Carl Fogel


Dear Bernice

Alas, the mission is entirely the same from the male perspective. We ar
convinced that that you would look entrancing attired in a gunny-sack

"The creator and arbiter of beauty is the heart; to the male rattlesnak
the female rattlesnake is the loveliest thing in nature.
-- Ambrose Bierc

Your helpless admirer

Carl Foge


-

"carlfogel" wrote in message
.. .
Peter Cole wrote:
"carlfogel" wrote
Dear Anon,

I understand that, on a weight basis, many of the garments available
from Victoria's Secret are scandalously overpriced and flimsy when
compared to sturdy coveralls.

Equally outraged,

Carl Fogel
I've noticed many older cyclists seem to have replaced women with bikes
as fetish objects. Is it an ED thing?



Dear Peter,

Hmm . . . I see no bicycles in my post.

Possibly you treated my salacious maunderings as a Rorschach ink blot
test and read something into it from the depths of your own depraved--

Never mind.

Carl Fogel

Silly me, to have bicycles on my mind instead of underwear. I'm usually not
like that.

"carlfogel" wrote in message
.. .
Peter Cole wrote:
"carlfogel" wrote
Dear Anon,

I understand that, on a weight basis, many of the garments available
from Victoria's Secret are scandalously overpriced and flimsy when
compared to sturdy coveralls.

Equally outraged,

Carl Fogel
I've noticed many older cyclists seem to have replaced women with bikes
as fetish objects. Is it an ED thing?



Dear Peter,

Hmm . . . I see no bicycles in my post.

Possibly you treated my salacious maunderings as a Rorschach ink blot
test and read something into it from the depths of your own depraved--

Never mind.

Carl Fogel

Silly me, to have bicycles on my mind instead of underwear. I'm usually not
like that.

Brooding further upon the injustice of it all,
I realized that it's even worse than you think.

If I were to take my worn bicycle tire to Sheldon
Brown and request re-treading service, I expect
that he would cruelly laugh a laugh such as the pious
might conceive upon the lips of Satan, callously urge
me to fling it in the trash, and greedily offer to sell
me a whole new tire--all the while jingling the doubloons
overflowing from his pockets!

Indignantly,

Carl Fogel

Carl: In all seriousness, I don't even know how they can ship something as
heavy and bulky as a car tire for what they charge for cheap ones. It's a
total mystery to me.

Thinking a bit more about it, part of the problem may be due to the
fragmented nature of the bicycle industry. I don't think it's the ultimate
consumer who determines how much they're willing to pay for a car tire, but
rather the OEMs. And in the case of the automobile manufacturers, the fact
that there are fewer of them, and that each commands an incredible amount of
clout, probably results in a far more competitive environment than found for
bike tires.

The bicycle industry is made up of perhaps a hundred different
manufacturers, of which maybe 20 have any sort of significant market share.
None of them are in a position to exert significant leverage upon a tire
vendor, nor is the market size large enough to encourage a lot of new
entries.

At the consumer end, the over-riding desire that trumps all other
considerations is that they want the same tire that came on the bike. No
fooling. Comes up all the time, no matter that you have a less-expensive
tire from another brand that would be more appropriate. Obviously, this
works against lower prices. Competition is a wonderful thing, but at the
consumer end, the demand is simply for more of the same that came on the
bike. Not in every case, obviously, but more than you would imagine.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Brooding further upon the injustice of it all,
I realized that it's even worse than you think.

If I were to take my worn bicycle tire to Sheldon
Brown and request re-treading service, I expect
that he would cruelly laugh a laugh such as the pious
might conceive upon the lips of Satan, callously urge
me to fling it in the trash, and greedily offer to sell
me a whole new tire--all the while jingling the doubloons
overflowing from his pockets!

Indignantly,

Carl Fogel

Carl: In all seriousness, I don't even know how they can ship something as
heavy and bulky as a car tire for what they charge for cheap ones. It's a
total mystery to me.

Thinking a bit more about it, part of the problem may be due to the
fragmented nature of the bicycle industry. I don't think it's the ultimate
consumer who determines how much they're willing to pay for a car tire, but
rather the OEMs. And in the case of the automobile manufacturers, the fact
that there are fewer of them, and that each commands an incredible amount of
clout, probably results in a far more competitive environment than found for
bike tires.

The bicycle industry is made up of perhaps a hundred different
manufacturers, of which maybe 20 have any sort of significant market share.
None of them are in a position to exert significant leverage upon a tire
vendor, nor is the market size large enough to encourage a lot of new
entries.

At the consumer end, the over-riding desire that trumps all other
considerations is that they want the same tire that came on the bike. No
fooling. Comes up all the time, no matter that you have a less-expensive
tire from another brand that would be more appropriate. Obviously, this
works against lower prices. Competition is a wonderful thing, but at the
consumer end, the demand is simply for more of the same that came on the
bike. Not in every case, obviously, but more than you would imagine.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 01:51:36 GMT, (Anonymous) may
have said:

What exactly are we paying for that makes up the enormous difference
in cost/mile between car tires and bicycle tires?
I recently replaced four car tires for about 200 dollars after about
three years. Sometimes I get a glass cut in bicycle tire and only get
one ride!, more typically I might get four months or about 2000 miles.
Even with a *budget* $20 tire this ends up costing me about twice as
much as the automobile tires for the same period. To make bike tires
last longer would require more material and cost performance due to
weight and feel less responsive, but it's kinda funny that the current
highest performance tires have even less material so should be cheaper
in some sense but cost more. Maybe it's just me but I can't tell any
difference between most road tires when riding except for the weight
differences.

There are probably 400 car tires made for sale in the US market for
each bike tire that is sold there, if you don't include the tires on
the Mall-Wart bikes which will probably never get enough usage to
require replacement. Additionally, there is a lot of price pressure
in the car tire market; the popular types of those products are sold
in such numbers that most of them are effectively commodities. Bike
tires, by comparison, are a specialty field with much smaller
production levels, less automation, and a higher-markup distribution
system. The car tire that would occupy a similar market niche to a $50
bike tire would be an exotic ultra-high-performance super-low-profile
unit with a price tag in the area of $170 to $350 each. The bike tire
that would compare to the car tire that you can get for $50
(installed) is the bike tire you can get at Wal-Mart. What, you say
you can't get a 700C at Wal-Mart? Guess what; they haven't got tires
for a Ferrari, either. And they don't sell any bikes that wear a 700
tire.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 01:51:36 GMT, (Anonymous) may
have said:

What exactly are we paying for that makes up the enormous difference
in cost/mile between car tires and bicycle tires?
I recently replaced four car tires for about 200 dollars after about
three years. Sometimes I get a glass cut in bicycle tire and only get
one ride!, more typically I might get four months or about 2000 miles.
Even with a *budget* $20 tire this ends up costing me about twice as
much as the automobile tires for the same period. To make bike tires
last longer would require more material and cost performance due to
weight and feel less responsive, but it's kinda funny that the current
highest performance tires have even less material so should be cheaper
in some sense but cost more. Maybe it's just me but I can't tell any
difference between most road tires when riding except for the weight
differences.

There are probably 400 car tires made for sale in the US market for
each bike tire that is sold there, if you don't include the tires on
the Mall-Wart bikes which will probably never get enough usage to
require replacement. Additionally, there is a lot of price pressure
in the car tire market; the popular types of those products are sold
in such numbers that most of them are effectively commodities. Bike
tires, by comparison, are a specialty field with much smaller
production levels, less automation, and a higher-markup distribution
system. The car tire that would occupy a similar market niche to a $50
bike tire would be an exotic ultra-high-performance super-low-profile
unit with a price tag in the area of $170 to $350 each. The bike tire
that would compare to the car tire that you can get for $50
(installed) is the bike tire you can get at Wal-Mart. What, you say
you can't get a 700C at Wal-Mart? Guess what; they haven't got tires
for a Ferrari, either. And they don't sell any bikes that wear a 700
tire.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

In article ,
David Reuteler wrote:

Matt O'Toole wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

What exactly are we paying for that makes up the enormous difference
in cost/mile between car tires and bicycle tires?

Marketing, and the willingness of others to pay the price.

yea, they're immune to that in carland.

There's a couple of noteworthy answers, but they come down to this:

market volume, and you want stickier rubber on bike tires.

The same thing crops up on motorcycle tires: a reasonable mid-priced
sport tire is about US$150-$200, and it goes up from there. and they
don't last very long at all.

On the other hand, the wretched Marathons on my Tercel will slide with
minimal provocation, a tic made less scary only by the fact that cars
are statically stable.

The sacrifice in tread life is an excellent compromise in exchange for
the much better grip of most bike tires. As for the volume costs, when
most bikes on this continent get their tires replaced every two or three
years, then we can talk.

--
Ryan Cousineau, http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine/wiredcola/
President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club