believability list

On 5/25/2011 6:32 PM, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
"dave a" wrote in message
...
On 5/25/2011 5:24 PM, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
"ilan" wrote in message
...

On May 25, 5:30 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
wrote:
Floyd- No
Tyler - No
Frankie Andreu - Yes (with some reservation)
Betsy Andreu - No
George Hincapie - Yes
Lance - No
Hans V - No
McQuaid - No
Lance's Attorney - No
Tyler's Attoryney - No (emphatically so now that I realize Manderson
was
corporate attorney for Rock & Republic)

I'm running out of people to believe! Other than, of course, rbr.
This I
believe. :-)

This all really does swing on Hincapie's testimony, or perhaps
something
he says subsequently, since we have no idea if he did anything but
stayed silent at the Grand Jury.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com
=======
I don't know why you cite Hincapie as believable. To me, he was the
most suspect of all USPS riders. Any rider on the podium of Paris-
Roubaix with that morphology dropping climbers and GC guys in Tour
climbs in the same year must be doing something extra. To me, that is
more incredible than Lance's Tour wins, his only post cancer classics
result was 2nd in Amstel Gold.

Even Cancellara, who was one of the keys to Sastre's 2008 win by
managing to stay close enough on the Tourmalet to come back to him on
the descent has never ridden tempo like that at the front of a climb.

-ilan
========

ilan- "Believable" has nothing to do with whether I think someone doped
or not. I was there when George won the mountainous stage in the TdF. I
watched as George was at the pointy end of the peloton for mile upon
mile on several harsh stages. George is not built like a climber.

I simply think George will tell the truth when asked, or say nothing. I
do not think, at this point, that he would lie. OK, maybe he might lie
and protect his good friend, but if he tells us that Lance doped, I
would believe it. George throwing Lance under the bus would be enough
for me. For me to... what? That part I haven't figured out yet. But I
don't think it involves buying Brian a beer. Or adding in any way to the
4-letter vocabulary found on rbr.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

Wait a minute! You think George is too nice of a guy to lie? Or he
would only lie to protect his good friend? What about protecting
himself? Let's not forget that all these sudden confessors are
confessing to the same thing that the rbr madmen are accusing LA of,
sporting fraud, etc. They should get the same punishment that is being
wished on LA. If anything, Flandis and Tyler are even more culpable
due to their raising significant monies to defend their lies.

Equal treatment under the law...


If Brian's correct, cyclists aren't the target in the first place, and
while he believe Lance would serve time, I don't think (within Brian's
view that they're going after bigger fish than Lance) that would happen.
As has been stated repeatedly, doping in professional sports is not a
criminal act in the US. What most of the guys testifying have to lose is
likely imaginary. Novitsky is counting on people folding out of a
likely-misplaced fear. Probably the way Grand Juries (Jurys?) work in
general.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

Well, the case against Weisel and Ochs is even more tenuous. Do you
actually think they were stupid enough to leave a funding trail to
doping? Ochs, perhaps, but Weisel? It's not like he was ignorant in
financial affairs.

In terms of what the confessors have to lose, let's start with their
integrity. Then there is the little matter of the titles and races they
won. Finally, it must really hurt their pride to know that everything
they have achieved was phony. Going from winner to loser can be painful.

(full disclosu many of the city limit sprints I engaged in were with
the assistance of caffeine and sugar - I am so ashamed)

/da

On 5/25/2011 8:58 PM, dave a wrote:
Well, the case against Weisel and Ochs is even more tenuous. Do you
actually think they were stupid enough to leave a funding trail to
doping? Ochs, perhaps, but Weisel? It's not like he was ignorant in
financial affairs.

Even if the funding trail is there, since doping to win a bike
race isn't illegal it doesn't matter. If they can connect it to
a race in Italy (where it *is* illegal) then maybe none of the
people involved can travel to Italy. But otherwise they're clear.

F

On 5/25/2011 8:42 AM, Fred Flintstein wrote:
On 5/25/2011 10:30 AM, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
This all really does swing on Hincapie's testimony, or perhaps something
he says subsequently, since we have no idea if he did anything but
stayed silent at the Grand Jury.

If doping for a bike race was illegal you'd be correct about that.
Beyond that most people think LANCE doped so I'm not sure so I'm
not sure Hincapie's testimony matters.

F

It is illegal to distribute prescription drugs without a prescription.
In the TH interview with "60 Minutes", TH established a link between LA
and drug distribution. It wasn't as solid as some would like. TH told LA
he wanted some EPO, a couple days later a box came through DHL or UPS
with some EPO in it. TH doesn't know who shipped it. TH also mentioned
prescription drugs being distributed in "white lunch bags". He wasn't
clear on where those came from, but it didn't sound as though LA was
handing them out.

I think there's a smoking gun, but I'm not sure who's fingerprints are
on it.

On 5/26/2011 12:26 PM, Jimmy July wrote:
It is illegal to distribute prescription drugs without a prescription.
In the TH interview with "60 Minutes", TH established a link between LA
and drug distribution. It wasn't as solid as some would like. TH told LA
he wanted some EPO, a couple days later a box came through DHL or UPS
with some EPO in it. TH doesn't know who shipped it. TH also mentioned
prescription drugs being distributed in "white lunch bags". He wasn't
clear on where those came from, but it didn't sound as though LA was
handing them out.

I think there's a smoking gun, but I'm not sure who's fingerprints are
on it.

And the fingerprints are many years old and on a different
continent. This is going to be harder than getting Barry
Bonds on perjury.

F

Jimmy July wrote:
TH told LA he wanted some EPO, a couple days later a box came through DHL or UPS
with some EPO in it. TH doesn't know who shipped it.

Damn, I must ask Father Christmas for some EPO in December; its probably
to late to ask the easter bunny.