Bad Bike Shop Manners??

Jeff Grippe wrote:


I didn't think of it as haggling on the price. It was simply that I knew the
price of the new bike and the one he had was "well used". There were a few
dings, missing paint (small chips), etc. Also it was my first trike and if I
could spend a bit less that would appealed to me. Since I knew the price of
the new TT 3.5 (at that time), I couldn't see paying $100 less for a very
well used older model.

But on the other hand, this guy setup almost a dozen different trikes and
let me take them on a mile long test ride that he had mapped out. You really
can't beat that kind of service.

Jeff



Okay, "haggling" probably has too many negative connotations, but I
recognize that one has to pay for great service, for the shop being
there in the first place to provide the service, etc., etc., etc. Of
course that's all up to the proprietor to work out, and I'm not saying
it's my concern as such; no, I'm just saying that I "recognize" that
and so I guess it just doesn't "occur" to me to even try to get a
"better" price. I don't believe I'd get more than, what, 3% off, and
what's 3% when all things are considered?

I know that sounds "defeatist" of me as a consumer, but I just like
rewarding intangibles as tangibly as I can. Perhaps even "rewarding"
is the wrong word, as if they were just prostitutes of some sort. But
much as these guys **** me off, I think that LBSes in general should be
supported, and this is my way of putting my money where my mouth is.

Jon Meinecke wrote:


In the end, you have choices. Less so, perhaps for purchasing a
non-commodity item like a recumbent bike. Vote with your
money.

Indeed. But these are also established places which have been around
for a long time (though NorthEast Recumbents is folding for good soon,
and I've received private e-mail which concurs with my experience of
Johannes there as being aloof and not particularly solicitous enough of
a sale), and so I just had to vent and more importantly ask if there
was something I was missing.

And now I'm wondering...maybe they were turned off by the fact that I
told them I was spending all that money?? Maybe, ironically enough, I
think I'm doing them a favor by letting them know that I'm a sure sale,
whereas they might be taking it like I'm trying to tell them to be on
their best behavior since, lookit, I've got cash, whoopee...??

People are so ****ing touchy...sheesh!

Bike shops, their owners, their clientele, have a 'personality',
a certain feel, a quirkiness, probably more so than other,
small to medium retail operations. I try to make allowances.
Overall, the LBS is a vanishing "breed",-- like the local
hardware store or family-run grocery. An LBS with
knowledge of recumbents is the exception. We have none
of such locally. Few small-to-medium markets do.

Much as even I lament the "box-store phenomenon" -- giant blocks of
Walmarts, Home Depots, and Borders -- I have to say that they
practically never give you grief. Sure it's hard finding someone who
speaks English -- it's a miracle to find staff at all if you have a
quesiton -- but the price is the price, the policy is the policy, thank
you very much. Experiences like mine make me think I could do with
less "personality," if you know what I mean!

As for treatment of phone calls, I tend to agree that someone
waiting in the store should take precedence over someone
on the phone. Taking a number to call someone back seems
like the polite and efficient thing to do. If a seller doesn't get
back to you, well, indeed they don't want your business or
are less than competent.

Sometimes it's like the Book of Job, I guess...there simply is no
answer. I still find it hard to really think badly of these folks that
**** me off, so perhaps it's simply just one of those things. Maybe my
e-mail messages got lost in mountains of SPAM. Maybe their puppy
really did just die. Etc.

I went into a LBS to purchase three standard chains to replace
my recumbent chain. I had questions about the relative merit
of various models. The shop owner didn't have three chains
of the same type in stock and couldn't offer any advice
why one chain might be better, though more expensive,
than another. He treated me rather abruptly and effectively
indicated he didn't want my business if I didn't just want to
buy something then and there.

Oh yeah, I've had the treatment too -- "you want that or not?" What
makes it all the more puzzling is that the store's empty!

I rode from that LBS to the other LBS, where the owner
grabbed a chain wear measurement tool and told me I
might as well continue with the chain I had for another
few thousand miles since it had worn to the point that
when I replaced the chain I would need to replace the
rear cassette. We had a good discussion, including
speculating whether the (then new) hollow pin chains
advertised as lighter weight than solid pin models would
remain lighter weight for very long in the presence of
road grime. %^)

Now see, that's actually the sort of discussion over the phone that The
Bicycleman had with me. So I was like, cool! I mean, I didn't ask all
that, but here was someone obviously interested in my well-being as a
fellow cyclist! But then I just got dropped for the walk-in without
about three-fourths of my concerns answered (since his answers to the
few I managed to ask were so in-depth), and my two e-mail messages were
never responded to.

I went away, not purchasing a chain that day. But
guess where I shop *first* locally for bike supplies
since then.

Jon Meinecke

Thanks again for commiserating. I think for my part, I probably do
expect too much sometimes. Sure they're cyclists, but they're
businessmen first, and they're just in business-mode. Who knows
anymore. Even when I give 'em money I can barely get a response (you
out there, Johannes??).

$200 margin isn't $200 profit. Keep in mind bicycles require substantial
time in assembly; not many other items you'd buy require all that work
before they can go out the door. Car dealers tell me they can prep a car
in 20 minutes, which is 2 hours, 40 minutes less time than it takes for
many bikes.

But what's the incremental cost of selling that bicycle versus not selling
it. It would seem like you'd want to keep these customers from going
elsewhere even at the cost of an occasional extra shipping charge. They're
likely to be buying all the high-margin accessories and clothing from the
shop that they buy the bike from, as well as returning there for service
after the warranty. Sure you can't afford to be special ordering every
single bike, but once in a while it would seem to be a worthwhile expense,
if it's a high end model.

On an inexpensive bike, it's not incremental profit, it's incremental loss.
That holds true up to about the $400-$500 area for the better shops; there
are some that can probably make a profit on a $300 bike, because they put so
little time into them.

On a higher-end bike yes, we will special-order one in-between larger
shipments if need be, because it's less-expensive to do that than to carry
so many in stock that there's no possibility of running out in-between major
shipments.

situational pricing (you charge customers differently depending upon your
mood, or that they won't buy something without bargaining, or the
business is in a cash flow crisis), but that's generally not a long-term
road to success. Everyone involved in the shop, from owner to salesperson
to mechanic, loses any real sense of value, in terms of what they're
delivering to the customer, because it's different to each one.

Welcome to the world of retail. It's pretty rare to find a store of any
kind that charges the same price to every customer, with all the sales,
rebates, discount clubs, % off coupons, cash discounts, etc., not to
mention plain haggling. I'm not sure that this is necessarily bad, as it
enables the business to sell both to price-sensitive and non-price
sensitive customers, increasing volume.

It may be rare, but that's us. We have no club discounts, no team-in
training discounts, no %-off coupons, no cash discounts. The product is the
same price to everyone, no exceptions. If we cannot establish that we're
worth "x" price, the customer will go elsewhere. That's fine; not everybody
wants to do business the same way. But it encourages us to be competitive
and deliver the best-possible service we can, because we're establishing
that *we* believe the product has a certain value, so we have to support
that.

We do however want to support various events, so besides direct
contributions we also offer 5% of a customer's prior-year purchases in the
form of a check to whatever charitable ride they're doing. We also do a 10%
discount on parts purchased with the bike.

My favorite discount was one that the Bicycle Outfitter once had, where
they had 15 or 20% off everything in the store, during the hours that the
Super Bowl was on. It was the one time to buy stuff that rarely goes on
sale, such as Rivendell bicycles.

You're probably aware that they changed hands; one of the problems they had
was that they trained customers to wait until they had their sales. They had
prices that were pretty high the rest of the time, but fewer buyers. That
can lead to the need for even more sale events to generate cash, which
further discourages people from shopping otherwise... a vicious circle that
makes it difficult to stay in business.

There are many successful business models out there; I'm not suggesting that
what we choose is better than someone else's. It just happens to work for
us, probably mostly because we're absolutely consistent. It also works great
because the customer who comes in saying his friend bought a bike from us
and got X$ off on it and he wants the same deal... well, we know that isn't
the case. We end up not wasting nearly as much time chasing customers who
are more interested in bargaining than in actually riding a bike. Yes, there
are people for whom the thrill of the negotiation is more important than
anything else. Me? I lose several years off my life everytime I have to buy
a car.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

"NYC XYZ" wrote in message
ups.com...

Jon Meinecke wrote:
[...]
Bike shops, their owners, their clientele, have a 'personality',
a certain feel, a quirkiness, probably more so than other,
small to medium retail operations. I try to make allowances.
Overall, the LBS is a vanishing "breed",-- like the local
hardware store or family-run grocery. An LBS with
knowledge of recumbents is the exception. We have none
of such locally. Few small-to-medium markets do.

Much as even I lament the "box-store phenomenon" -- giant blocks of
Walmarts, Home Depots, and Borders -- I have to say that they
practically never give you grief. Sure it's hard finding someone who
speaks English -- it's a miracle to find staff at all if you have a
quesiton -- but the price is the price, the policy is the policy, thank
you very much. Experiences like mine make me think I could do with
less "personality," if you know what I mean!

I am with NYC here. I very much like the big box discount stores. After all,
it is all about price. Service is almost nonexistent these days and who
needs it anyway. Mom and pop type of stores have always been a pain in the
ass. Good riddance to them. Give me Wal-Mart any old day of the week and
twice on Sundays. Hell, if I were a kid I would get my bike at Wal-Mart and
I would be perfectly happy with it.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

Presta valve caps serve no reasonable purpose that I can see. They
certainly aren't air-tight. The best they might do is keep the area
clean so you don't blow grit into your tube, but I've never seen that
cause any trouble.

I thought they were there to stop the end of the valve chaffing the tube
when it was rolled up.

--
Andy Morris

AndyAtJinkasDotFreeserve.Co.UK

Love this:
Put an end to Outlook Express's messy quotes
http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/

Johnny Sunset wrote:
Since I was the only
rider on a bicycle with a front fairing and fenders, I only got wet
above the shoulders. The rest of the riders were soaked everywhere.

And... what next? They all melted?

RFM

Fritz M wrote:
Johnny Sunset wrote:
Since I was the only
rider on a bicycle with a front fairing and fenders, I only got wet
above the shoulders. The rest of the riders were soaked everywhere.

And... what next? They all melted?

Someone implied that recumbents would be worse than uprights to ride in
the rain regarding the rider getting wet and dirty. I posted a real
world example that indicated the opposite was the case.

If there had been lightning, the upright riders would have worked as
lightning rods for me.

--
Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley