stop all bike paths etc please!!

Oh. So why didn't he just say that?


"Prisoner at War" wrote in message
...

He's probably referring to the law of unintended consequences...which,
as I notice WRT bicycling, seems to involve increased "policing" of
(i.e., restrictions on) how one may cycle and where, in direct
proportion to official "rights" such as bike paths and sidewalk bike
parks: you can't just hitch your ride to any ol' pole anymore, and you
can't simply cruise on the sidewalk (even though the real speed demons
are usually little kids, who aren't sanctioned!)....



On Nov 16, 7:30 am, "Papa Tom" wrote:
What the HELL are you talking about, my friend?

"ilaboo" wrote in message

news:nv4%i.2040$eV.1824@trndny04...

been biking for over 50 years
12 of them in the mountains of Montana
this is not Portland Oregon--we in the bronx are getting tickets for
walking bikes on sidewalks--bike paths full of pedetrians and
wheelchairs--hot shot bikers covered with advertisements to narccistic
to
stop and help bikers---you have to see this to believe it.

we have police here in the bronx who are true sociopaths. Ever wonder
why
they empty their guns when they use them?--sit on the benches at City
island and you can hear they learing how to fire weapons--to give them
any
power especial;ly over bicycles is outrageous.

no doubt we will ahve to pay a license fee big time--leave things the
way
they are!!
just encourage people to bike--fill the streets but do not give the
city
any credibility re bikes--i know you think it is better to ahve bike
paths
but the reality is it may not be.

peter

OK, I'm outta this!


"Prisoner at War" wrote in message
...
On Nov 16, 12:06 pm, "Papa Tom" wrote:
Oh. So why didn't he just say that?


He's from the Bronx. ;-)

On Nov 16, 7:30 am, "Papa Tom" wrote:
What the HELL are you talking about, my friend?

"ilaboo" wrote in message

news:nv4%i.2040$eV.1824@trndny04...

been biking for over 50 years
12 of them in the mountains of Montana
this is not Portland Oregon--we in the bronx are getting tickets for
walking bikes on sidewalks--bike paths full of pedetrians and
wheelchairs--hot shot bikers covered with advertisements to narccistic
to
stop and help bikers---you have to see this to believe it.

we have police here in the bronx who are true sociopaths. Ever wonder
why
they empty their guns when they use them?--sit on the benches at City
island and you can hear they learing how to fire weapons--to give them
any
power especial;ly over bicycles is outrageous.

no doubt we will ahve to pay a license fee big time--leave things the
way
they are!!
just encourage people to bike--fill the streets but do not give the
city
any credibility re bikes--i know you think it is better to ahve bike
paths
but the reality is it may not be.

The truth is that bike paths don't work at all well when they get crowded. I
only use bike paths when there is practically no one on them. This means
weekdays, not weekends.

Frankly, I don't think ANYTHING works well when crowded, and EVERYTHING
works well when uncrowded - just another reason not to live in any metro.
Everyone in the world knows that The Bronx is a hell hole. Why live there if
you don't have to?

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

As a lifelong resident of a town that has gone from "country" to urban-like
suburb in less than fifty years, I've been torn about bike paths for some
time myself. Yeah, I wish the roads would go back to the way they were when
I was a kid and I was able to ride them anywhere I wanted to go. And I wish
drivers and cyclists could figure out how to live together and share the
pavement. But that isn't going to happen around here anytime soon.

Meanwhile, fewer and fewer people here are allowing their kids to even own
bicycles, let alone ride them anywhere. And I understand why. As an
experienced cyclist who has ridden the same roads on a regular basis for the
past 35-40 years, I find I'm constantly in life-threatening situations when
I get out on the road. So more and more, I'm packing my bike into the car
and driving to bike paths in Westchester, in New Jersey, and right here on
Long Island. A lot of other Long Islanders are doing the same. For me,
sometimes it's either that - or leave the bike in the garage and go eat a
sandwich.

Regarding this problem with the police and the laws of the road, I think
there needs to be better education all around. I ran bicycle safety
programs in our local schools for a number of years and always tried to
involve the police. Sadly, I never found one who understood the basic
bicycle laws.

Likewise, I am constantly frustrated by how little people know or CARE to
know about how to ride a bicycle safely in traffic. And why should they,
when the rules of safe automobile driving are so universally ignored?

The problems between cops and cyclists can be broken down to the basic
components of a fist fight: When two people are arguing and both run out of
intelligence, the fists inevitably start flying. Similarly, when neither
the cops nor the cyclists know what the hell they are talking about, the
bullying begins...and the cops usually win.

"Papa Tom" wrote in message
...
As a lifelong resident of a town that has gone from "country" to
urban-like suburb in less than fifty years, I've been torn about bike
paths for some time myself. Yeah, I wish the roads would go back to the
way they were when I was a kid and I was able to ride them anywhere I
wanted to go. And I wish drivers and cyclists could figure out how to
live together and share the pavement. But that isn't going to happen
around here anytime soon.

Meanwhile, fewer and fewer people here are allowing their kids to even own
bicycles, let alone ride them anywhere. And I understand why. As an
experienced cyclist who has ridden the same roads on a regular basis for
the past 35-40 years, I find I'm constantly in life-threatening situations
when I get out on the road. So more and more, I'm packing my bike into
the car and driving to bike paths in Westchester, in New Jersey, and right
here on Long Island. A lot of other Long Islanders are doing the same.
For me, sometimes it's either that - or leave the bike in the garage and
go eat a sandwich.

Regarding this problem with the police and the laws of the road, I think
there needs to be better education all around. I ran bicycle safety
programs in our local schools for a number of years and always tried to
involve the police. Sadly, I never found one who understood the basic
bicycle laws.

Likewise, I am constantly frustrated by how little people know or CARE to
know about how to ride a bicycle safely in traffic. And why should they,
when the rules of safe automobile driving are so universally ignored?

The problems between cops and cyclists can be broken down to the basic
components of a fist fight: When two people are arguing and both run out
of intelligence, the fists inevitably start flying. Similarly, when
neither the cops nor the cyclists know what the hell they are talking
about, the bullying begins...and the cops usually win.

As we become more and more urbanized with every passing year, bike paths are
the answer to safe and fun cycling, but they must not be allowed to become
crowded. The reason they are so frequently crowded is because there are so
few of them. If there were hundreds of them all over the place, they would
not be crowded and would then be safe and fun for cyclists, not an obstacle
course as they so often are today.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

I guess the reason I'm not "getting" this is that the bike paths here are
always empty. As cool as they are, they're just too far from anywhere to
attract a lot of people -- especially since most would have to buy racks for
their cars. I say, in New York, we don't need anymore paths. We just need
safe biking roads that lead to them.

"Edward Dolan" wrote in message
...

"Papa Tom" wrote in message
...
As a lifelong resident of a town that has gone from "country" to
urban-like suburb in less than fifty years, I've been torn about bike
paths for some time myself. Yeah, I wish the roads would go back to the
way they were when I was a kid and I was able to ride them anywhere I
wanted to go. And I wish drivers and cyclists could figure out how to
live together and share the pavement. But that isn't going to happen
around here anytime soon.

Meanwhile, fewer and fewer people here are allowing their kids to even
own bicycles, let alone ride them anywhere. And I understand why. As an
experienced cyclist who has ridden the same roads on a regular basis for
the past 35-40 years, I find I'm constantly in life-threatening
situations when I get out on the road. So more and more, I'm packing my
bike into the car and driving to bike paths in Westchester, in New
Jersey, and right here on Long Island. A lot of other Long Islanders are
doing the same. For me, sometimes it's either that - or leave the bike in
the garage and go eat a sandwich.

Regarding this problem with the police and the laws of the road, I think
there needs to be better education all around. I ran bicycle safety
programs in our local schools for a number of years and always tried to
involve the police. Sadly, I never found one who understood the basic
bicycle laws.

Likewise, I am constantly frustrated by how little people know or CARE to
know about how to ride a bicycle safely in traffic. And why should they,
when the rules of safe automobile driving are so universally ignored?

The problems between cops and cyclists can be broken down to the basic
components of a fist fight: When two people are arguing and both run out
of intelligence, the fists inevitably start flying. Similarly, when
neither the cops nor the cyclists know what the hell they are talking
about, the bullying begins...and the cops usually win.

As we become more and more urbanized with every passing year, bike paths
are the answer to safe and fun cycling, but they must not be allowed to
become crowded. The reason they are so frequently crowded is because there
are so few of them. If there were hundreds of them all over the place,
they would not be crowded and would then be safe and fun for cyclists, not
an obstacle course as they so often are today.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

If there are enough "safe biking roads", the need for bike paths
disappears.

Good point, but it's not going to happen. Not where I live, anyway.

Just recently, I sent two letters to the Majority Leader of the Nassau
County Legislature. She's a local resident whom I have known personally and
respected for many years. The subject of the letter was the rebuilding of a
major road that runs through our downtown area. The road is to be
straightened and widened. In the letter, I urged this usually sensible
county leader to require that the designers of the new road investigate the
possibility of either a bike lane in each direction or replacement of the
sidewalks with multi-use paths, the way I've seen it done in counties in
upstate New York.

Right now, we've got cyclists riding against traffic, on sidewalks that end
suddenly and dump them into car lanes...all kinds of dangerous stuff. As I
said in an earlier e-mail, the roads have even become scary for me, a very
experienced cyclist.

My letters were apparently discussed at a very high level meeting, to which
I was not invited to support my point. Days later, I ran into this county
leader at an event and she rushed toward me as if to report something I
really wanted to hear. Unfortunately, her news was that the issue of the
bike lanes had been discussed and it was decided that, if the county built
any kind of bicycle right-of-way in OUR community, then ALL local
communities would start asking for them.

Of course, I held my tongue because I've known this person for so long and
she has been very helpful to me in my past bicycle-related projects. But
what I wanted to say was "Duuuh! Perhaps everyone would want this because
it's THE RIGHT THING TO DO?????"

On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 04:04:04 -0800 (PST), Ozark Bicycle
wrote:

On Nov 17, 5:55 am, "Papa Tom" wrote:
I guess the reason I'm not "getting" this is that the bike paths here are
always empty. As cool as they are, they're just too far from anywhere to
attract a lot of people -- especially since most would have to buy racks for
their cars. I say, in New York, we don't need anymore paths. We just need
safe biking roads that lead to them.


If there are enough "safe biking roads", the need for bike paths
disappears.

Hmmm, like in the Netherlands?

JFT

I agree again. However, the attitudes toward cycling have deteriorated far
quicker here in New York than they have out where you are. I travel a lot
for a living and the things I've seen in the midwest and the south make me
really envious.

People out here will never sit through a class on the rules of safe cycling.
Aren't you aware that all of us New Yorkers (especially Long Islanders)
already know everything there is to know about everything?


"Ozark Bicycle" wrote in message
...
On Nov 17, 7:51 am, "Papa Tom" wrote:
If there are enough "safe biking roads", the need for bike paths
disappears.

Good point, but it's not going to happen. Not where I live, anyway.

IMO, the path to "safe biking roads" begins thus:

1) Driver education: teach the rights of cyclists and the
responsibilities of drivers

2) Cyclist education: teach both the rights and the *responsibilities*
of cyclists

3) Police education: teach the police the law

4) Make cycling mainstream and accepted: work for cyclists rights to
the road, *not for bike paths*(which marginalize cyclists).
Discourage, loudly if necessary, those cyclists who ride on the
sidewalk, ride against traffic, blow through stop signs/red lights,
etc. Commute, shop and do errands on your bike.


remainder snipped

"Papa Tom" wrote in message
...
I agree again. However, the attitudes toward cycling have deteriorated far
quicker here in New York than they have out where you are. I travel a lot
for a living and the things I've seen in the midwest and the south make me
really envious.

People out here will never sit through a class on the rules of safe
cycling. Aren't you aware that all of us New Yorkers (especially Long
Islanders) already know everything there is to know about everything?


"Ozark Bicycle" wrote in message
...
On Nov 17, 7:51 am, "Papa Tom" wrote:
If there are enough "safe biking roads", the need for bike paths
disappears.

Good point, but it's not going to happen. Not where I live, anyway.

IMO, the path to "safe biking roads" begins thus:

1) Driver education: teach the rights of cyclists and the
responsibilities of drivers

2) Cyclist education: teach both the rights and the *responsibilities*
of cyclists

3) Police education: teach the police the law

4) Make cycling mainstream and accepted: work for cyclists rights to
the road, *not for bike paths*(which marginalize cyclists).
Discourage, loudly if necessary, those cyclists who ride on the
sidewalk, ride against traffic, blow through stop signs/red lights,
etc. Commute, shop and do errands on your bike.

Papa Tom is quite right. It is only liberals who believe in the magic of
education. Most folks will not bother with it since kids ride bikes, do they
not? Education is mostly a dead end anyway. If it works at all, it only
works on kids.

Bike paths are the answer unless cycling is given up altogether by everyone.
That is a distinct possibility. I think there is much less cycling today
than there was in the 70s for instance - and it is all due to the madness of
the traffic on our roads.

The fact is that roads can never be made safe for cyclists. Hells Bells,
they are not even safe for motorcyclists. They are strictly for motor
vehicles, the 4-wheel kind. Even bike lanes are dangerous to say the least.
A cyclist ventures out onto most roads literally risking his life. Bike
paths are the only sensible solution.

However, I do not like bike paths that become crowded. If we have enough of
them and they are well designed, all of our troubles will disappear forever.
Thus spake Zarathustra!

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota