Clean Winners of the Tour de France - as far as we know.

"Anton Berlin" schreef in bericht
...

We've all seen this but only in 1990 do we have a clean rider on the
podium for the years Armstrong doped his way to first place.

You have to go pretty deep to find a clean rider.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4111/...acf5edfd_b.jpg

1999 winner of the Tour de France is now Fernando Escartin.

2000 winner is ( you have to go to 8th place to find a non-doper ) is
also Fernado Escartin !

2001 winner is Andrei Kivilev

2002 won by José Azevedo

2003 won by Haimar Zubeldia

2004 won by José Azevedo

2005 won by (former 8th place) Cadel Evans

Methodology was to wiki the tour then wiki the gc until I found no
(historically) doping allegations/implications or positive tests/
suspensions listed.

Also note 2009 - now won by Andy Schleck


Escartin clean? He was not only one of dr. Ferrari's 'patients, but the
police found also his name in Conconi's files as one of the riders with a
hematocrit more than 50%.

Benjo Maso

On May 25, 3:21*pm, "Benjo Maso" wrote:

Escartin clean? He was not only one of dr. Ferrari's 'patients, but the
police found also his name in Conconi's files as one of the riders with a
hematocrit more than 50%.

Benjo Maso

But he retired honorably in due time and without ****ing
anyone off, which is the most important thing.

Someone must have been telling lies about Lance A.,
for without having done anything wrong he was arrested
one fine morning.

Fredmaster Ben

"Fredmaster of Brainerd" schreef in bericht
...

On May 22, 2:17 pm, Brad Anders wrote:
On May 22, 8:05 am, Anton Berlin wrote:

Really? You're more gullible than I thought. "Clean"? It's an
illusion, you have no idea at all if these guys are "clean", and
there's every indication that they're not. Your "evidence" of no
allegations/implications is simply silly - anyone who was in top 20 on
GC in a GT for the past couple of decades is suspect, and more than
likely a doper. Just what it takes to be in that group.

I agree - just making the point.

OK, but then don't add the disclaimer "as far as we know".

Dumbasses,

The last clean winner of the Tour de France was Roger
Walkowiak, who won in 1956.

Walkowiak was an unknown rider who got into a long break
and then was unexpectedly able to defend his lead.
(Ironically, wikipedia claims his victory was widely derided
because he wasn't a big star and won without ... panache.)
Given his unknown pedigree and the state of cycling at the time,
it's fairly safe to say that Walkowiak would have had a doping
programme much less sophisticated than the favorites of
the day - he might not have been able to afford much of a
doping programme at all.



A sophisticated doping program didn't exist in 1956. There weren't even team
doctors. Most riders were taking all kinds of products, prescribed by their
soigneurs. The trouble was that none of these soigneurs had any medical
training. The only serious performance enhancing product riders were using
was amphetamine. Until 1955 anybody could by it for a few francs at a
pharmacy - without a prescription. In 1956 it was a little harder to get -
one had to buy it in Spain or at the black market, but it was still very
cheap.
Walkowiak wasn't quite unknown (at the 1955 Dauphiné Libéré he had made
suffer even Louison Bobet) and he had also a soigneur: the ex-pro Andrea
Minasso, who also served Anquetil and Rivière - not quite riders known to be
'clean'. So probably Bartali would be a better choice...

Benjo Maso

On May 22, 4:38*am, Anton Berlin wrote:
We've all seen this but only in 1990 do we have a clean rider on the
podium for the years Armstrong doped his way to first place.

You have to go pretty deep to find a clean rider.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4111/...acf5edfd_b.jpg

1999 winner of the Tour de France is now Fernando Escartin.

2000 winner is ( you have to go to 8th place to find a non-doper ) is
also Fernado Escartin !

2001 winner is Andrei Kivilev

2002 won by José Azevedo

2003 won by Haimar Zubeldia

2004 won by *José Azevedo

2005 won by (former 8th place) Cadel Evans

Methodology was to wiki the tour then wiki the gc until I found no
(historically) doping allegations/implications or positive tests/
suspensions listed.

Also note 2009 - now won by Andy Schleck

You can also remove the 1991-1998 winners. Miguel Indurain tested
positive for a banned substance after his hour record. However, it was
banned in France, but not the UCI, the race was in Bordeaux.

1996: Riis admitted he doped.

1997: Ullrich + Puerto.

1998: Pantani. Enough said.

That takes me back to Greg Lemond. I can't think of any cheating
controversy involving him. Maybe all those lead pellets lodged in his
heart helped him on the 1990 descent of the Marie Blanque when
Chiapucci attacked him after he flatted.

-ilan

"Fredmaster of Brainerd" schreef in bericht
...

On May 25, 3:21 pm, "Benjo Maso" wrote:

Escartin clean? He was not only one of dr. Ferrari's 'patients, but the
police found also his name in Conconi's files as one of the riders with a
hematocrit more than 50%.

Benjo Maso

But he retired honorably in due time and without ****ing
anyone off, which is the most important thing.

Someone must have been telling lies about Lance A.,
for without having done anything wrong he was arrested
one fine morning.



Obviously you're very happy about it - in the original German version it's
not 'a fine morning', but just 'a morning' ("...ohne dass er etwas Böses
getan hätte, wurde er eines Morgens verhaftet").

Benjo

"ilan" schreef in bericht
...

On May 22, 4:38 am, Anton Berlin wrote:
We've all seen this but only in 1990 do we have a clean rider on the
podium for the years Armstrong doped his way to first place.

You have to go pretty deep to find a clean rider.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4111/...acf5edfd_b.jpg

1999 winner of the Tour de France is now Fernando Escartin.

2000 winner is ( you have to go to 8th place to find a non-doper ) is
also Fernado Escartin !

2001 winner is Andrei Kivilev

2002 won by José Azevedo

2003 won by Haimar Zubeldia

2004 won by José Azevedo

2005 won by (former 8th place) Cadel Evans

Methodology was to wiki the tour then wiki the gc until I found no
(historically) doping allegations/implications or positive tests/
suspensions listed.

Also note 2009 - now won by Andy Schleck

You can also remove the 1991-1998 winners. Miguel Indurain tested
positive for a banned substance after his hour record. However, it was
banned in France, but not the UCI, the race was in Bordeaux.

1996: Riis admitted he doped.

1997: Ullrich + Puerto.

1998: Pantani. Enough said.



Pantani??? Never a failed test. I rest my case.



That takes me back to Greg Lemond. I can't think of any cheating
controversy involving him. Maybe all those lead pellets lodged in his
heart helped him on the 1990 descent of the Marie Blanque when
Chiapucci attacked him after he flatted.



OK, if we only count riders clever enough to not be mixed in doping affairs,
that makes

1991 Lemond
1992 Hampsten
1993 Jaskula
1994 Pellicioli
1995 Mauri
1996 Lütterberger
1997 Zberg
1998 Julich
1999 Nardello
2000 Nardello

Benjo

On May 25, 4:14*pm, ilan wrote:
On May 22, 4:38*am, Anton Berlin wrote:



We've all seen this but only in 1990 do we have a clean rider on the
podium for the years Armstrong doped his way to first place.

You have to go pretty deep to find a clean rider.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4111/...acf5edfd_b.jpg

1999 winner of the Tour de France is now Fernando Escartin.

2000 winner is ( you have to go to 8th place to find a non-doper ) is
also Fernado Escartin !

2001 winner is Andrei Kivilev

2002 won by José Azevedo

2003 won by Haimar Zubeldia

2004 won by *José Azevedo

2005 won by (former 8th place) Cadel Evans

Methodology was to wiki the tour then wiki the gc until I found no
(historically) doping allegations/implications or positive tests/
suspensions listed.

Also note 2009 - now won by Andy Schleck

You can also remove the 1991-1998 winners. Miguel Indurain tested
positive for a banned substance after his hour record. However, it was
banned in France, but not the UCI, the race was in Bordeaux.

1996: Riis admitted he doped.

1997: Ullrich + Puerto.

1998: Pantani. Enough said.

That takes me back to Greg Lemond. I can't think of any cheating
controversy involving him. Maybe all those lead pellets lodged in his
heart helped him on the 1990 descent of the Marie Blanque when
Chiapucci attacked him after he flatted.

What about his "iron shots" and remarkable improvement
thereafter?


"Man is conceived in sin and born in corruption and he passeth
from the stink of the didie to the stench of the shroud. There is
always something."
-- Willie Stark on opposition research, from _All the King's
Men_

Fredmaster Ben

On May 25, 4:29*pm, "Benjo Maso" wrote:
"Fredmaster of Brainerd" *schreef in ...
On May 25, 3:21 pm, "Benjo Maso" wrote:

Escartin clean? He was not only one of dr. Ferrari's 'patients, but the
police found also his name in Conconi's files as one of the riders with a
hematocrit more than 50%.

Benjo Maso

But he retired honorably in due time and without ****ing
anyone off, which is the most important thing.

Someone must have been telling lies about Lance A.,
for without having done anything wrong he was arrested
one fine morning.

Obviously you're very happy about it - in the original German version it's
not 'a fine morning', but just 'a morning' ("...ohne dass er etwas Böses
getan hätte, wurde er eines Morgens verhaftet").

Benjo

That's a difference between English and German-speaking
attitudes I guess - how optimistic the mere fact of a morning
makes you.

I couldn't remember the exact phrasing so I had to google it -
"fine morning" is in the standard English version I think, so
it appears to be license on the part of the translator.

Fredmaster Ben

On May 25, 6:55*pm, Fredmaster of Brainerd wrote:
On May 25, 4:14*pm, ilan wrote:









On May 22, 4:38*am, Anton Berlin wrote:

We've all seen this but only in 1990 do we have a clean rider on the
podium for the years Armstrong doped his way to first place.

You have to go pretty deep to find a clean rider.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4111/...acf5edfd_b.jpg

1999 winner of the Tour de France is now Fernando Escartin.

2000 winner is ( you have to go to 8th place to find a non-doper ) is
also Fernado Escartin !

2001 winner is Andrei Kivilev

2002 won by José Azevedo

2003 won by Haimar Zubeldia

2004 won by *José Azevedo

2005 won by (former 8th place) Cadel Evans

Methodology was to wiki the tour then wiki the gc until I found no
(historically) doping allegations/implications or positive tests/
suspensions listed.

Also note 2009 - now won by Andy Schleck

You can also remove the 1991-1998 winners. Miguel Indurain tested
positive for a banned substance after his hour record. However, it was
banned in France, but not the UCI, the race was in Bordeaux.

1996: Riis admitted he doped.

1997: Ullrich + Puerto.

1998: Pantani. Enough said.

That takes me back to Greg Lemond. I can't think of any cheating
controversy involving him. Maybe all those lead pellets lodged in his
heart helped him on the 1990 descent of the Marie Blanque when
Chiapucci attacked him after he flatted.

What about his "iron shots" and remarkable improvement
thereafter?

"Man is conceived in sin and born in corruption and he passeth
*from the stink of the didie to the stench of the shroud. There is
*always something."
* * * -- Willie Stark on opposition research, from _All the King's
Men_

Fredmaster Ben

classic movie

Benjo Maso wrote:
OK, if we only count riders clever enough to not be mixed in doping
affairs, that makes

1991 Lemond
1992 Hampsten
1993 Jaskula
1994 Pellicioli
1995 Mauri
1996 Lüttenberger
1997 Zberg
1998 Julich
1999 Nardello
2000 Nardello

Gah. From that list I guess I only trust Lemond (and don't know Pellicioli).