believability list

Floyd- No
Tyler - No
Frankie Andreu - Yes (with some reservation)
Betsy Andreu - No
George Hincapie - Yes
Lance - No
Hans V - No
McQuaid - No
Lance's Attorney - No
Tyler's Attoryney - No (emphatically so now that I realize Manderson was
corporate attorney for Rock & Republic)

I'm running out of people to believe! Other than, of course, rbr. This I
believe. :-)

This all really does swing on Hincapie's testimony, or perhaps something
he says subsequently, since we have no idea if he did anything but
stayed silent at the Grand Jury.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

On 5/25/2011 8:30 AM, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
Floyd- No
Tyler - No
Frankie Andreu - Yes (with some reservation)
Betsy Andreu - No
George Hincapie - Yes
Lance - No
Hans V - No
McQuaid - No
Lance's Attorney - No
Tyler's Attoryney - No (emphatically so now that I realize Manderson was
corporate attorney for Rock& Republic)

I'm running out of people to believe! Other than, of course, rbr. This I
believe. :-)

This all really does swing on Hincapie's testimony, or perhaps something
he says subsequently, since we have no idea if he did anything but
stayed silent at the Grand Jury.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com




You just have to know when to believe them, not if. I do believe Floyd
and Tyler when they say they doped their entire career. I don't believe
them when they say they never doped. It's really pretty simple.

On May 25, 11:35*am, dave a wrote:
On 5/25/2011 8:30 AM, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:









Floyd- No
Tyler - No
Frankie Andreu - Yes (with some reservation)
Betsy Andreu - No
George Hincapie - Yes
Lance - No
Hans V - No
McQuaid - No
Lance's Attorney - No
Tyler's Attoryney - No (emphatically so now that I realize Manderson was
corporate attorney for Rock& *Republic)

I'm running out of people to believe! Other than, of course, rbr. This I
believe. *:-)

This all really does swing on Hincapie's testimony, or perhaps something
he says subsequently, since we have no idea if he did anything but
stayed silent at the Grand Jury.

--Mike-- * * Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

You just have to know when to believe them, not if. *I do believe Floyd
and Tyler when they say they doped their entire career. *I don't believe
them when they say they never doped. *It's really pretty simple.

I've being saying Armstrong is a doper since 1994, Mike. Believe it.

On 5/25/2011 10:30 AM, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
This all really does swing on Hincapie's testimony, or perhaps something
he says subsequently, since we have no idea if he did anything but
stayed silent at the Grand Jury.

If doping for a bike race was illegal you'd be correct about that.
Beyond that most people think LANCE doped so I'm not sure so I'm
not sure Hincapie's testimony matters.

F

On May 25, 8:42*am, Fred Flintstein
wrote:
On 5/25/2011 10:30 AM, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

This all really does swing on Hincapie's testimony, or perhaps something
he says subsequently, since we have no idea if he did anything but
stayed silent at the Grand Jury.

If doping for a bike race was illegal you'd be correct about that.
Beyond that most people think LANCE doped so I'm not sure so I'm
not sure Hincapie's testimony matters.

F

Hey Schwartz,
Nobody said doping for a bike race is illegal. But you already knew
this.

Thanks,
Juan

"BLafferty" wrote in message
...
On May 25, 11:35 am, dave a wrote:
On 5/25/2011 8:30 AM, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:









Floyd- No
Tyler - No
Frankie Andreu - Yes (with some reservation)
Betsy Andreu - No
George Hincapie - Yes
Lance - No
Hans V - No
McQuaid - No
Lance's Attorney - No
Tyler's Attoryney - No (emphatically so now that I realize Manderson
was
corporate attorney for Rock& Republic)

I'm running out of people to believe! Other than, of course, rbr.
This I
believe. :-)

This all really does swing on Hincapie's testimony, or perhaps
something
he says subsequently, since we have no idea if he did anything but
stayed silent at the Grand Jury.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

You just have to know when to believe them, not if. I do believe Floyd
and Tyler when they say they doped their entire career. I don't
believe
them when they say they never doped. It's really pretty simple.

I've being saying Armstrong is a doper since 1994, Mike. Believe it.

What I've said has been pretty consistent. The evidence has been heresay
and weakly circumstantial. We have still lacked corroborating witnesses
(to the same event) and forensic evidence. Reading rbr, you'd think the
scope of this has spread to the White House. I've also said,
consistently, that the veracity of nearly every star witness has been
questionable at best. You (presumably) saw the 60 minutes interview. Did
you get from that a sense that Tyler was introduced to doping by Lance's
team at USPS? That certainly increases the drama, but at the expense of
the truth.

Right now there are ten different story lines playing out. We'll see,
hopefully shortly, how they all converge. And in the end, if it turns
out that Lance has in fact doped his way to 7 TdF victories and somehow
managed to keep those ten different story lines off his back for this
long, and made it this difficult to come up with forensic evidence, the
guy should be appointed to the secret office at the CIA in charge of
ultra-covert operations.

Logic says that you'd have to be the most superhuman person ever to win
the TdF against fields of known dopers. Or be a doper yourself. But even
if there was a 10% chance Lance was that "most superhuman person ever"
he wouldn't get the benefit of that chance because he's such a
polarizing entity, someone or something that gets under some people's
skin in a way they don't want to scratch, they want to tear the limb
off. Abrasive, obnoxious, arrogant, calculating and incredibly
intelligent in matters of public manipulation in the eyes of his
detractors, setting up an organization to reflect a benevolent image at
odds with the darker side (a darker side that does not depend upon
doping to be dark). His is a life of passion rather than logic, for good
and for bad. On rbr, passion wins out big time. Why I try to fight it is
a mystery.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Hey Schwartz,
Nobody said doping for a bike race is illegal. But you already knew
this.

Thanks,
Juan

Juan - Is it illegal for Bob Schwartz to have his head completely
lodged up his ass?

On May 25, 12:24*pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
wrote:
"BLafferty" wrote in message

...
On May 25, 11:35 am, dave a wrote:





On 5/25/2011 8:30 AM, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

Floyd- No
Tyler - No
Frankie Andreu - Yes (with some reservation)
Betsy Andreu - No
George Hincapie - Yes
Lance - No
Hans V - No
McQuaid - No
Lance's Attorney - No
Tyler's Attoryney - No (emphatically so now that I realize Manderson
was
corporate attorney for Rock& Republic)

I'm running out of people to believe! Other than, of course, rbr.
This I
believe. :-)

This all really does swing on Hincapie's testimony, or perhaps
something
he says subsequently, since we have no idea if he did anything but
stayed silent at the Grand Jury.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

You just have to know when to believe them, not if. I do believe Floyd
and Tyler when they say they doped their entire career. I don't
believe
them when they say they never doped. It's really pretty simple.
I've being saying Armstrong is a doper since 1994, Mike. Believe it.

What I've said has been pretty consistent. The evidence has been heresay
and weakly circumstantial. We have still lacked corroborating witnesses
(to the same event) and forensic evidence. Reading rbr, you'd think the
scope of this has spread to the White House. I've also said,
consistently, that the veracity of nearly every star witness has been
questionable at best. You (presumably) saw the 60 minutes interview. Did
you get from that a sense that Tyler was introduced to doping by Lance's
team at USPS? That certainly increases the drama, but at the expense of
the truth.

Right now there are ten different story lines playing out. We'll see,
hopefully shortly, how they all converge. And in the end, if it turns
out that Lance has in fact doped his way to 7 TdF victories and somehow
managed to keep those ten different story lines off his back for this
long, and made it this difficult to come up with forensic evidence, the
guy should be appointed to the secret office at the CIA in charge of
ultra-covert operations.

Logic says that you'd have to be the most superhuman person ever to win
the TdF against fields of known dopers. Or be a doper yourself. But even
if there was a 10% chance Lance was that "most superhuman person ever"
he wouldn't get the benefit of that chance because he's such a
polarizing entity, someone or something that gets under some people's
skin in a way they don't want to scratch, they want to tear the limb
off. Abrasive, obnoxious, arrogant, calculating and incredibly
intelligent in matters of public manipulation in the eyes of his
detractors, setting up an organization to reflect a benevolent image at
odds with the darker side (a darker side that does not depend upon
doping to be dark). His is a life of passion rather than logic, for good
and for bad. On rbr, passion wins out big time. Why I try to fight it is
a mystery.

--Mike-- * * Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Adorno had it all figured out in Minima Moralia. Social pathologies
haven`t really changed since 1951. As he also wrote, passion can be a
sign of `chaste hardness and intolerance.`

`Among today’s cunning practitioners, the lie has long since lost its
honest function, of concealing something real. No-one believes anyone,
everyone is in the loop. Lies are told only when someone wants others
to know they aren’t important, that the former does not need the
latter, and does not care what they think. Today the lie, once a
liberal means of communication, has become one of the techniques of
brazenness, with whose help every single person spreads the iciness,
in whose shelter they thrive.`

On 25/05/2011 19:38, Mark wrote:
`Among today’s cunning practitioners, the lie has long since lost its
honest function, of concealing something real. No-one believes anyone,
everyone is in the loop. Lies are told only when someone wants others
to know they aren’t important, that the former does not need the
latter, and does not care what they think. Today the lie, once a
liberal means of communication, has become one of the techniques of
brazenness, with whose help every single person spreads the iciness,
in whose shelter they thrive.`

Lance Armstrong in a nutshell...nice post.

On May 25, 1:38*pm, Mark wrote:
On May 25, 12:24*pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
wrote:



"BLafferty" wrote in message

....
On May 25, 11:35 am, dave a wrote:

On 5/25/2011 8:30 AM, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

Floyd- No
Tyler - No
Frankie Andreu - Yes (with some reservation)
Betsy Andreu - No
George Hincapie - Yes
Lance - No
Hans V - No
McQuaid - No
Lance's Attorney - No
Tyler's Attoryney - No (emphatically so now that I realize Manderson
was
corporate attorney for Rock& Republic)

I'm running out of people to believe! Other than, of course, rbr.
This I
believe. :-)

This all really does swing on Hincapie's testimony, or perhaps
something
he says subsequently, since we have no idea if he did anything but
stayed silent at the Grand Jury.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

You just have to know when to believe them, not if. I do believe Floyd
and Tyler when they say they doped their entire career. I don't
believe
them when they say they never doped. It's really pretty simple.
I've being saying Armstrong is a doper since 1994, Mike. Believe it.

What I've said has been pretty consistent. The evidence has been heresay
and weakly circumstantial. We have still lacked corroborating witnesses
(to the same event) and forensic evidence. Reading rbr, you'd think the
scope of this has spread to the White House. I've also said,
consistently, that the veracity of nearly every star witness has been
questionable at best. You (presumably) saw the 60 minutes interview. Did
you get from that a sense that Tyler was introduced to doping by Lance's
team at USPS? That certainly increases the drama, but at the expense of
the truth.

Right now there are ten different story lines playing out. We'll see,
hopefully shortly, how they all converge. And in the end, if it turns
out that Lance has in fact doped his way to 7 TdF victories and somehow
managed to keep those ten different story lines off his back for this
long, and made it this difficult to come up with forensic evidence, the
guy should be appointed to the secret office at the CIA in charge of
ultra-covert operations.

Logic says that you'd have to be the most superhuman person ever to win
the TdF against fields of known dopers. Or be a doper yourself. But even
if there was a 10% chance Lance was that "most superhuman person ever"
he wouldn't get the benefit of that chance because he's such a
polarizing entity, someone or something that gets under some people's
skin in a way they don't want to scratch, they want to tear the limb
off. Abrasive, obnoxious, arrogant, calculating and incredibly
intelligent in matters of public manipulation in the eyes of his
detractors, setting up an organization to reflect a benevolent image at
odds with the darker side (a darker side that does not depend upon
doping to be dark). His is a life of passion rather than logic, for good
and for bad. On rbr, passion wins out big time. Why I try to fight it is
a mystery.

--Mike-- * * Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com-Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Adorno had it all figured out in Minima Moralia. *Social pathologies
haven`t really changed since 1951. *As he also wrote, passion can be a
sign of `chaste hardness and intolerance.`

`Among today’s cunning practitioners, the lie has long since lost its
honest function, of concealing something real. No-one believes anyone,
everyone is in the loop. Lies are told only when someone wants others
to know they aren’t important, that the former does not need the
latter, and does not care what they think. Today the lie, once a
liberal means of communication, has become one of the techniques of
brazenness, with whose help every single person spreads the iciness,
in whose shelter they thrive.`

Thanks for the book rec. I'll check it out.