LEL 2009 - some observations

I had to make a car journey down through the Scottish Borders on
Tuesday. I thought for a while I’d moved into a parallel universe. On
several miles of the A7 south of Edinburgh there was a constant
streams of cyclists: singles, pairs and small groups in both
directions. I found the same on many miles of a small ‘B’ road through
Eskdalemuir and Langholm in the Borders. They were all obviously
experienced and well-equipped long-distance cyclists. It turns out
that there was a London – Edinburgh – London 1400km endurance trial
and that there were hundreds of participants approaching and returning
from the outward destination.

I didn’t see much that surprised me; only stuff that confirmed my
expectations and experience.

First, high-viz is good and the higher the vizier the better. On the
‘A’ road it was helpful to see fluorescent yellow or orange amongst
the traffic well ahead. That way, I could adjust speed, check the
traffic behind and oncoming and judge where it was safe to pull out
and leave good clearance to safely overtake.

On the ‘B’ road, there are long sections of bendy road hemmed in
closely on both sides by high hedges, trees and vegetation, with the
sunshine giving a contrast of brilliant and dark patches. It was
helpful to get early view of the blocks of fluorescent colour amongst
the visual ‘noise’ and be able to prepare to pass safely. Similarly,
on the ‘B’ road there are long sections through moorland, farmland and
hills where you can glimpse sections of road far ahead, and it helps
to clearly see cyclists in the distance so that when you reach sharp
bends and narrow bridges or cattle grids you have some prior
information of what is approaching and can take extra care to
accommodate.

Sorry if that violates some beliefs that if you see things too early,
or there are too many fluorescent blobs, you don’t notice them or have
time to forget them: it just doesn’t happen.

And although, after a short while, I was anticipating meeting and
coping with cyclists everywhere, the above particularly applies to the
normal situation of meeting the occasional cyclist on such journeys.

The ‘B’ road doesn’t have any single track sections. It is all double
lane, though some of that is a bit squeezed and having a centre line
is a bit optimistic. Motor vehicles usually slow down and pull in
towards the verge when passing. I noticed two cyclists who stuck to
the centre of their lane: I can’t say whether it was lack of
observation or certainty about their own wisdom. One, oncoming, I
slowed down and passed slowly, but felt that it was he who didn’t
allow enough room for me to think we had enough safe clearance. The
same with the one who was travelling in the same direction. It was
otherwise perfectly safe to overtake but I felt that his positioning
didn’t give me enough room to allow the clearance I would have liked.
In both cases they could have pulled in and still have been on smooth
tarmac well away from the rough edge.

Otherwise it was noticeable that all other cyclists were considerate
enough to pull to the left and change from two abreast to single file
so that we could all safely pass.

There were several recumbents. I’ve never encountered any in many
years on these roads. One, on the A7, was dressed in black and was
proceeding up the crawler lane where there was an overtaking lane. In
the bright sunlight, all you could see from a distance was this vague
and unidentifiable black box crawling along the edge of the lane. He
would have helped everybody, including himself, if he’d had some
fluorescence and, in particular, had pennants on aerials at some
higher, normal line-of-sight level. The same with the several I saw on
the ‘B’ road. The just didn’t have enough colour visibility or normal
line-of-sight presence.

The event rules specified helmets as an optional personal choice. The
vast majority were wearing them and, of the few individual who
weren’t, several had them on the handlebars and might just have
removed them temporarily in the heat. Despite temptations of long
downhill bendy runs there was no sign of supposed risk compensation of
helmet wearers seeking self-destruction.

It was mixed international collection of cyclists and on the whole, on
roads where I find road users are generally careful and considerate,
was a good example of how motor vehicles and cyclists can share and
safely enjoy road use if there isn’t a ‘them ‘n us’ confrontational
attitude on either side.

Toom

Toom Tabard wrote:

Sorry if that violates some beliefs that if you see things too early,
or there are too many fluorescent blobs, you don’t notice them or have
time to forget them: it just doesn’t happen.

I've never really thought it did. But OTOH if I'm driving to a
sharp bend I don't need special forewarning to know that I can't go
round it as if I'm sure nothing's coming the other way. Not just
cyclists that I might mess up, but combine harvesters etc. that
might mess me up.

There were several recumbents. I’ve never encountered any in many
years on these roads. One, on the A7, was dressed in black and was
proceeding up the crawler lane where there was an overtaking lane. In
the bright sunlight, all you could see from a distance was this vague
and unidentifiable black box crawling along the edge of the lane. He
would have helped everybody, including himself, if he’d had some
fluorescence and, in particular, had pennants on aerials at some
higher, normal line-of-sight level.

Why? You saw there was /something/ there, and acted accordingly.
In fact, I've often found that people not knowing quite what I was
when on the 'bent has resulted in me getting a lot /more/ space and
care taken around me than when I'm on an upright.

The same with the several I saw on
the ‘B’ road. The just didn’t have enough colour visibility or normal
line-of-sight presence.

So since potholes and speed bumps don't have flourescence and
line-of-sight visibility, you drive into them at speed the whole time?

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 21:15:14 +0100, Peter Clinch
wrote:

There were several recumbents. I’ve never encountered any in many
years on these roads. One, on the A7, was dressed in black and was
proceeding up the crawler lane where there was an overtaking lane. In
the bright sunlight, all you could see from a distance was this vague
and unidentifiable black box crawling along the edge of the lane. He
would have helped everybody, including himself, if he’d had some
fluorescence and, in particular, had pennants on aerials at some
higher, normal line-of-sight level.

Why? You saw there was /something/ there, and acted accordingly.
In fact, I've often found that people not knowing quite what I was
when on the 'bent has resulted in me getting a lot /more/ space and
care taken around me than when I'm on an upright.

Yes. The "wtf?" factor. I've lost count of the number of people who
have told me how dangerous it must be and how they nearly didn't see
me. Nearly didn't being, of course, semantically equal to /did/. And
they sure as hell noticed, which is what matters.

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/urc | http://www.nohelmetlaw.org.uk/
"Nullius in Verba" - take no man's word for it.
- attr. Horace, chosen by John Evelyn for the Royal Society

On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 21:15:14 +0100, Peter Clinch
wrote:

Toom Tabard wrote:

Sorry if that violates some beliefs that if you see things too early,
or there are too many fluorescent blobs, you don’t notice them or have
time to forget them: it just doesn’t happen.

I've never really thought it did. But OTOH if I'm driving to a
sharp bend I don't need special forewarning to know that I can't go
round it as if I'm sure nothing's coming the other way. Not just
cyclists that I might mess up, but combine harvesters etc. that
might mess me up.

There were several recumbents. I’ve never encountered any in many
years on these roads. One, on the A7, was dressed in black and was
proceeding up the crawler lane where there was an overtaking lane. In
the bright sunlight, all you could see from a distance was this vague
and unidentifiable black box crawling along the edge of the lane. He
would have helped everybody, including himself, if he’d had some
fluorescence and, in particular, had pennants on aerials at some
higher, normal line-of-sight level.

Why? You saw there was /something/ there, and acted accordingly.
In fact, I've often found that people not knowing quite what I was
when on the 'bent has resulted in me getting a lot /more/ space and
care taken around me than when I'm on an upright.

The same with the several I saw on
the ‘B’ road. The just didn’t have enough colour visibility or normal
line-of-sight presence.

So since potholes and speed bumps don't have flourescence and
line-of-sight visibility, you drive into them at speed the whole time?

Pete.

TT - gave what I thought was a very balanced point of view - with
accurate observations.


This response is exactly what TT was talking about in another thread.

To some - there is an implied criticism of the odd cyclist.

You are not allowed to do this!!


However - Clinch will be a moderator so he will be able to act out his
fantasies at will - and squash the cyclist hater ;-)





--

Vote NO to the proposed group uk.rec.cycling.moderated aka uk.rec.cycling.censored

On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 22:09:04 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
wrote:

On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 21:15:14 +0100, Peter Clinch
wrote:

There were several recumbents. I’ve never encountered any in many
years on these roads. One, on the A7, was dressed in black and was
proceeding up the crawler lane where there was an overtaking lane. In
the bright sunlight, all you could see from a distance was this vague
and unidentifiable black box crawling along the edge of the lane. He
would have helped everybody, including himself, if he’d had some
fluorescence and, in particular, had pennants on aerials at some
higher, normal line-of-sight level.

Why? You saw there was /something/ there, and acted accordingly.
In fact, I've often found that people not knowing quite what I was
when on the 'bent has resulted in me getting a lot /more/ space and
care taken around me than when I'm on an upright.

Yes. The "wtf?" factor. I've lost count of the number of people who
have told me how dangerous it must be and how they nearly didn't see
me. Nearly didn't being, of course, semantically equal to /did/. And
they sure as hell noticed, which is what matters.

Guy


Recumbents are dangerous to other road users.

Ask the woman/man in the pub what they think about them.

I think I will start a campaign to get them banned.

Any suggestions as how to get it started?

--

Vote NO to the proposed group uk.rec.cycling.moderated aka uk.rec.cycling.censored

On 29 July, 22:09, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 21:15:14 +0100, Peter Clinch

wrote:
There were several recumbents. I’ve never encountered any in many
years on these roads. One, on the A7, was dressed in black and was
proceeding up the crawler lane where there was an overtaking lane. In
the bright sunlight, all you could see from a distance was this vague
and unidentifiable black box crawling along the edge of the lane. He
would have helped everybody, including himself, if he’d had some
fluorescence and, in particular, had pennants on aerials at some
higher, normal line-of-sight level.
Why? *You saw there was /something/ there, and acted accordingly.
In fact, I've often found that people not knowing quite what I was
when on the 'bent has resulted in me getting a lot /more/ space and
care taken around me than when I'm on an upright.

Yes. *The "wtf?" factor. *I've lost count of the number of people who
have told me how dangerous it must be and how they nearly didn't see
me. *Nearly didn't being, of course, semantically equal to /did/. *And
they sure as hell noticed, which is what matters.


There is another side to the "wtf" factor, and that is that it
distracts other road users from other factors which may be hazards and
need a fair share of their attention. The "wtf" rubbernecking factor
is a well known cause of accidents, as in the classic cases of
accident scenes resulting in other accidents. It is generally better
that something can be seen from the distance as obviously a recumbent
rather than a vague black box against bright sunlight which doesn't
come to your attention until you are closer to it.

That is particularly the case in this instance when it was in a
crawler lane on an 'A' road, since the purpose is to allow fast
traffic to get past. High visibility at a distance allows those in the
crawler lane more time to check the traffic situation, particularly in
the overtaking lane and to adjust their speed and judge when it is
safe to pull out and give safe clearance. That is to the safety
advantage of all, particularly cyclists given the concern many of us
have about safe clearance when being overtaken.

Toom

Judith M Smith wrote:


Recumbents are dangerous to other road users.

Ask the woman/man in the pub what they think about them.

I think I will start a campaign to get them banned.

Any suggestions as how to get it started?

This would be excellent trolling from a beginner. An anti-cyclist
opinion backed up by a ludicrous attempt to justify it that is just
begging for a response. The "open goal" method.
It fails because it has the judith stamp. You'll need to use a sock if
you really want anyone here to bite

--
Roger Thorpe

....Wait a minute, It's stopped raining/
Guys are swimming, guys are sailing.....

On 29 July, 21:15, Peter Clinch wrote:
Toom Tabard wrote:
Sorry if that violates some beliefs that if you see things too early,
or there are too many fluorescent blobs, you don’t notice them or have
time to forget them: it just doesn’t happen.

I've never really thought it did.

Some contributors to this group think that it does, and have said so.

But OTOH if I'm driving to a
sharp bend I don't need special forewarning to know that I can't go
round it as if I'm sure nothing's coming the other way. *Not just
cyclists that I might mess up, but combine harvesters etc. that
might mess me up.


Indeed but early warning is *additional* information which allows
better preparation and better planning and choice of options rather
than dealing with situations immediately they arise. There are two
reconised extremes in driving style. Those who tank along and wait
until a problem occurs and then throw out the anchors, and those who
scan not only the immediate road but the far view - sometimes very far
ahead if sections of the road are visible. At either extreme, or in
between, there are advantage safety advantages for cyclists in being
very obvious at a short distance and to be a very noticeable dot at a
far distance.

Toom

On 29 July, 21:15, Peter Clinch wrote:

There were several recumbents. I’ve never encountered any in many
years on these roads. One, on the A7, was dressed in black and was
proceeding up the crawler lane where there was an overtaking lane. In
the bright sunlight, all you could see from a distance was this vague
and unidentifiable black box crawling along the edge of the lane. He
would have helped everybody, including himself, if he’d had some
fluorescence and, in particular, had pennants on aerials at some
higher, normal line-of-sight level.

Why? *You saw there was /something/ there, and acted accordingly.
In fact, I've often found that people not knowing quite what I was
when on the 'bent has resulted in me getting a lot /more/ space and
care taken around me than when I'm on an upright.


There are very good reasons why, which I've outlined in reponse to
Guy's comments on the 'wtf' factor.

Toom

On 29 July, 21:15, Peter Clinch wrote:
Toom Tabard wrote:

The same with the several I saw on
the ‘B’ road. The just didn’t have enough colour visibility or normal
line-of-sight presence.

So since potholes and speed bumps don't have flourescence and
line-of-sight visibility, you drive into them at speed the whole time?


I've noticed that when they paint a yellow line round a pothole to
mark it for repair it particularly catches the eye.

Actually, this particular road has a section with major pothole
problems. That means that both motorists and cyclists are paying some
considerable attention to watching for them, as well as keeping an eye
on the next bend for one of the large articulated forestry lorries
which span both lanes. When competing for attention with many other
road factors, it generally helps to have high visibility and to be
noticed as early as possible.

Toom