magilla and i called this one

On Sep 15, 8:59*pm, "Tom Kunich" wrote:
"Scott" wrote in message

...



On Sep 15, 5:40 pm, bar wrote:
On Sep 15, 5:43 pm, "Tom Kunich" wrote:
wrote in message

And I will qualify further and say you are right - no one gets the
job
as team leader in the tours with 9th in the Vuelta, but one may keep
their job if no else is available. The real danger is that you may
be
relegated to Super Maid if someone IS available. Still, you can have
a
career as the last one splaying off up the mountain for the real
leader. Everyone seems to be coming to a consensus that this would
be
TD's real calling.

Is it just my imagination or wasn't Tom Danielson supposed to be the
domestique for Chris Horner who crashed and broke bones in the first
week?
Then claiming that he was a less than spectacular team leader seems a
bit
foolish doesn't it?

i'm not touching this one ... lest i be called bad names

Okay, I'll do it.

Note to TK: *it is customary for a domestique and a team leader to
ride on the same team. *Well, official domestiques, at least, ride on
the same team as their leader. *What the directors of various teams
work out after the race starts for riders of one team to support the
team leader of another team is a different story.

Horner = Astana
Danielson = Garmin

Just a small detail, but pretty important, don't you think??

Thanks for reminding me that Danielson never crossed from the Discovery
Channel Team to Astana.

I suppose that completely relieves those here from their postings that have
nothing but hate filled comments about TD since he isn't a stand-out winner.
Of course if he was, these same people would be throwing hate filled
comments about how much dope he was using.

i harbor no hate for TD (as you seem to suggest in your roundabout
way). what i hate is how the press seem to puff him up as some real
U.S. GC hope in grand tours. i mean look at the current vuelta GC ...
he's 9th and at best (if he hadn't gotten that "virus") would be 4th
or 5th ... but no closer.

how many articles do you think there are in the european press about
the GC hopes/possibilities of Paolo Tiralongo (8th) or Joaquim
Rodriguez (7th)? Probably none. And i guarantee there are no
"Tiralongo Building Form for the Vuelta" articles anywhere ...

anyway ... it ain't hate. it's a hope for a little reality check. TD
is an ok climber, but he really has no chance of being a real GC
contender in the grand tours ... and we ought to stop putting those
kinds of expectations on him.

Reality. There it is.

-b-

"bar" wrote in message
...

i harbor no hate for TD (as you seem to suggest in your roundabout
way). what i hate is how the press seem to puff him up as some real
U.S. GC hope in grand tours. i mean look at the current vuelta GC ...
he's 9th and at best (if he hadn't gotten that "virus") would be 4th
or 5th ... but no closer.

Do you recall that Óscar Pereiro won the Tour de France? Or that Carlos
Sastre won? Danielson is better than both of these guys. So let's not
pretend that those who should win always do win.

how many articles do you think there are in the european press about
the GC hopes/possibilities of Paolo Tiralongo (8th) or Joaquim
Rodriguez (7th)? Probably none. And i guarantee there are no
"Tiralongo Building Form for the Vuelta" articles anywhere ...

You believe that writers are different because they write in another
lanugage?

anyway ... it ain't hate. it's a hope for a little reality check. TD
is an ok climber, but he really has no chance of being a real GC
contender in the grand tours ... and we ought to stop putting those
kinds of expectations on him.

"We" aren't putting such expectations on them. I watch a race to see who
wins. Not to see if someone I expected to win wins.

On Sep 15, 7:09*pm, "Tom Kunich" wrote:
"bar" wrote in message

i harbor no hate for TD (as you seem to suggest in your roundabout
way). *what i hate is how the press seem to puff him up as some real
U.S. GC hope in grand tours. *i mean look at the current vuelta GC ....
he's 9th and at best (if he hadn't gotten that "virus") would be 4th
or 5th ... *but no closer.

Do you recall that Óscar Pereiro won the Tour de France? Or that Carlos
Sastre won? Danielson is better than both of these guys. So let's not
pretend that those who should win always do win.

Jingoistic Dumbass,

Carlos Sast
has won 3 stages of the Tour de France,
2 stages of the Giro d'Italia,
KOM of the Vuelta (2000),
KOM of the Tour (2008),
13 top 10 finishes in Grand Tours,
six Grand Tour podiums (1 at Giro, 2 at Tour, 3 at Vuelta),
and has won the Tour de France, which is generally
considered harder than either Mt. Washington or Mt. Evans.

So whether or not you think for some reason that Sastre's
Tour win doesn't count (because LANCE wasn't there?)
I have to ask: what ****ing planet are you on?
Nothing against TD, but compared to Sastre, Danielson
is a soccer player.

Ben

On Sep 15, 8:43*pm, "
wrote:
On Sep 15, 7:09*pm, "Tom Kunich" wrote:

"bar" wrote in message

i harbor no hate for TD (as you seem to suggest in your roundabout
way). *what i hate is how the press seem to puff him up as some real
U.S. GC hope in grand tours. *i mean look at the current vuelta GC ....
he's 9th and at best (if he hadn't gotten that "virus") would be 4th
or 5th ... *but no closer.

Do you recall that Óscar Pereiro won the Tour de France? Or that Carlos
Sastre won? Danielson is better than both of these guys. So let's not
pretend that those who should win always do win.

Jingoistic Dumbass,

Carlos Sast
has won 3 stages of the Tour de France,
2 stages of the Giro d'Italia,
KOM of the Vuelta (2000),
KOM of the Tour (2008),
13 top 10 finishes in Grand Tours,
six Grand Tour podiums (1 at Giro, 2 at Tour, 3 at Vuelta),
and has won the Tour de France, which is generally
considered harder than either Mt. Washington or Mt. Evans.

So whether or not you think for some reason that Sastre's
Tour win doesn't count (because LANCE wasn't there?)
I have to ask: what ****ing planet are you on?
Nothing against TD, but compared to Sastre, Danielson
is a soccer player.

OK, that's one. Now tell us about Pereiro and how much better he is
than TD. Show your work.

DR

In article
,
bar wrote:

On Sep 15, 5:43Â*pm, "Tom Kunich" wrote:
wrote in message

...



And I will qualify further and say you are right - no one gets the job
as team leader in the tours with 9th in the Vuelta, but one may keep
their job if no else is available. The real danger is that you may be
relegated to Super Maid if someone IS available. Still, you can have a
career as the last one splaying off up the mountain for the real
leader. Everyone seems to be coming to a consensus that this would be
TD's real calling.

Is it just my imagination or wasn't Tom Danielson supposed to be the
domestique for Chris Horner who crashed and broke bones in the first week?
Then claiming that he was a less than spectacular team leader seems a bit
foolish doesn't it?

i'm not touching this one ... lest i be called bad names

Moron.

--
Michael Press

bar wrote:
i'm not touching this one ... lest i be called bad names

Bob Schwartz wrote:
No one here would ever call you names.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xc_WJFp6fRs

DirtRoadie wrote:
OK, that's one. Now tell us about Pereiro and how much better he is than
TD. Show your work.

2004 TDF 10th (Virtual stage win on Pla D'Adet)
2005 TDF 10th
2007 TDF 10th

Danielson
2005 Vuelta 7th
2006 Vuelta 6th

I suppose it depends on whether you consider 6th or 7th in the Vuelta
equivalent to 10th in the TDF.

Although
2004 1st, Mount Evans Hill Climb
2007 1st, Mount Evans Hill Climb
2009 1st, Mount Evans Hill Climb
may influence the comparison.

Donald Munro wrote:
DirtRoadie wrote:
OK, that's one. Now tell us about Pereiro and how much better he is than
TD. Show your work.

2004 TDF 10th (Virtual stage win on Pla D'Adet)
2005 TDF 10th
2007 TDF 10th

Danielson
2005 Vuelta 7th
2006 Vuelta 6th

I suppose it depends on whether you consider 6th or 7th in the Vuelta
equivalent to 10th in the TDF.

Although
2004 1st, Mount Evans Hill Climb
2007 1st, Mount Evans Hill Climb
2009 1st, Mount Evans Hill Climb
may influence the comparison.

I would note that Pereiro won his Tour by attacking and
getting lucky. But luck happened because he was attacking.
Oscar also won a few races with competition better than
Jittery ****ing Joes. Danielson's Vuelta stage wins count
there, Burgos and the Tour of Georgia don't.

Bob Schwartz

bar wrote:
i harbor no hate for TD (as you seem to suggest in your roundabout
way). what i hate is how the press seem to puff him up as some real
U.S. GC hope in grand tours. i mean look at the current vuelta GC ...
he's 9th and at best (if he hadn't gotten that "virus") would be 4th
or 5th ... but no closer.

I don't hate Danielson either. He has made a better career
than his abilities justify and I admire him for that.

I think his fans are retards. The guy has had a long career
as a pro and hasn't won a lot of races. Which is no big
deal by itself, there are many roles to play on the team.
But team leader generally isn't where you put a guy that
doesn't win races. Not that you could tell his fans that.
But no one wins at the highest levels without first winning
lesser events with top competition. The Tour of ****ing
Georgia against Jittery ****ing Joes ain't a match.

He's also that guy that everyone knows, the guy that never
produces results and always has an explanation for it. And
the explanation is never anything along the lines of 'I
wasn't good enough.'

Bob Schwartz

On Sep 16, 3:40*am, Donald Munro wrote:

Although
2004 1st, Mount Evans Hill Climb
2007 1st, Mount Evans Hill Climb
2009 1st, Mount Evans Hill Climb
may influence the comparison.

All that tells us is that he doesn't suffer from elevation related
problems worse than the local CO/NM/AZ cat 1 racers.

I wish I could remember the specific reference and all the details of
this story, but I can't. Regardless, I remember much of the story
because I was a fan of T Rominger at the time (in as much as I'm a fan
of any cyclist, which is to say, not very much) and I thought it was
pretty cool. Anyway, the story (which as I recall was told in the now-
defunct Winning magazine) was of TR training in CO, I believe in
preparation for Worlds the last time it was held in S America.
Apparently he went on a solo training ride up Mt Evans on his training
bike, (box section rims, lots of spokes, big ol' clinchers...) no
follow car like you see when LA goes for a ride, so he was carrying
his spare tubes, a few tools, food, water, and extra clothes for the
descent from 14K ft.

Just out on a training ride, with no competition and no pacers, he
beats the existing record by a few minutes. It was many years later
when Danielson finally beat the record himself, in full race mode.
Danielson has the record for a pretty tough hill climb against
domestic elite amateur competition. BFD.