Extra-Large Toe Clips ?

Jay Beattie wrote:

Chalo wrote:

I don't use flat pedals only on the clunker to go
to the bar, but all the time, on all my bikes.

My slow bikes are still slow. *My fast bikes are still fast. *You
could miss a basic fact like that if you have foot bindings on all
your fast bikes, and your only plain pedals are on slow bikes.

Grant Peterson (of Rivendell) and Roger Durham (of Bullseye) are a
couple of reasonably well-informed cyclists who learned for themselves
after long years of riding that free-footed was indeed better. *I
didn't need their insight to figure that out, but I'm not surprised--
both those guys have been willing to do what they observed to work
best, not just what was purported to work best according to race
results, tradition, conventional wisdom, or marketing efforts.

Enjoy those platforms, Grashopper. *Just don't tell me that I have bad
form for using clipless -- because if using clipless is evidence of
bad form, then the entire pro peleton has bad form. *

Well, how do you like your EPO? You didn't say. Since what works for
the pro peloton works for you, I mean.

Chalo

Jay Beattie wrote:
On May 27, 12:55 am, Chalo wrote:
AMuzi wrote:

Chalo wrote:
Poor form, too tall gearing, or both.
Joy Beeson wrote:
I'm still using the gears I had installed in Albany, when I frequently
climbed the Eastern Cliffs of the Helderbergs.
I suspect that your other assertion is equally snicker-worthy.
I smiled at that, enjoying Chalo's colorful writing which
had no application to my own cycling experience.
When I started riding in earnest, I had a barely passable bike with
plain pedals. Then I got a decent bike which I rode with toe clips,
as I did with a couple of successively better bikes.

I got an even better bike which I rode with SPDs. What do you know--
it was better, and so was I at riding it after so many enthusiastic
miles.

I'm sure that this pattern corresponds to many of us here. Where I
diverged from some of y'all is that I went on to get yet better bikes
and put even more years in my riding legs with flat pedals. There was
a period of adjustment, of course, as my feet became reaccustomed to
commanding their own destiny. But after that period was over I
couldn't make clipless pedals make sense to me again-- I even tried
some nice Time ATACs at length, but to no avail. It turned out to be
all (manageable) drawbacks but no practical payoff. I'd probably have
come to the opposite conclusion if I'd only spent a few days without
foot bindings, because my feet wouldn't have recovered their volition
by that time.

I won't be hoofing around town in crampons or ballet slippers
(splendid though they may be for their respective purposes), and I
won't be tying my feet to the pedals anymore either. Been there, done
that, as the saying goes. Unlike many "serious" riders, though, I've
also come back home for a more fully informed look at the basics of
life on the bike. I don't use flat pedals only on the clunker to go
to the bar, but all the time, on all my bikes.

My slow bikes are still slow. My fast bikes are still fast. You
could miss a basic fact like that if you have foot bindings on all
your fast bikes, and your only plain pedals are on slow bikes.

Grant Peterson (of Rivendell) and Roger Durham (of Bullseye) are a
couple of reasonably well-informed cyclists who learned for themselves
after long years of riding that free-footed was indeed better. I
didn't need their insight to figure that out, but I'm not surprised--
both those guys have been willing to do what they observed to work
best, not just what was purported to work best according to race
results, tradition, conventional wisdom, or marketing efforts.

Enjoy those platforms, Grashopper. Just don't tell me that I have bad
form for using clipless -- because if using clipless is evidence of
bad form, then the entire pro peleton has bad form. Next it will be
bad form to not have a 200mm+ crank, 40 spoke mega-wheels, leather
saddle, steel frame, etc., etc. We'll have the Rivendell police
taking us in for re-grooving. Ride CF, go to jail. -- Jay Beattie.


Heretic.
For you penance, slather your handlebar with shellac.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 5/26/2011 8:00 PM, Chalo wrote:
Joy Beeson wrote:

With cleats, I can climb long hills. Without
cleats, I struggle to get up Chestnut Street.

Poor form, too tall gearing, or both.

It's no crime to use a crutch if you need it, but it's still a
crutch. If you don't need it, it only invites chronic problems if you
use it anyway.

Didn't Henri Desgranges say that derailleurs were for girly-men?
Do I recall Jobst saying low gears were a crutch (paraphrasing here)?
Now cleats are a crutch.

Bring on the Real MAN (R) saddles.

Mark J., who enjoyed his low gears and cleats this morning.

On 5/27/2011 4:29 AM, Çhâlõ Çólîñã wrote:
thirty-six wrote:

T�m Sherm�n wrote:

�h�l� ��l��� wrote:

Jay Beattie wrote:

All those professional racers must be cripples, including track racers
with a leg speed you could only dream of.

I use crank lengths they could only dream of. �225mm! �My feet somehow
stay on the pedals despite the enormous centrifugal forces and
impotently comfortable shoes.

I am getting a set of 150-mm cranks either tomorrow or Tuesday (per
FedEx tracking).

So what have you been using, what's your leg length and when did this
injury occur?

He wants to be able to pedal inside a land kayak without bashing his
toes.

Actually, knee and heel clearance govern the minimum height of the fairing.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

On 5/27/2011 11:38 AM, Jay Beattie wrote:
Enjoy those platforms, Grashopper. Just don't tell me that I have bad
form for using clipless -- because if using clipless is evidence of
bad form, then the entire pro peleton has bad form. Next it will be
bad form to not have a 200mm+ crank, 40 spoke mega-wheels, leather
saddle, steel frame, etc., etc. We'll have the Rivendell police
taking us in for re-grooving. Ride CF, go to jail.

Carbon fiber reinforced polymer is passé. Rotationally molded HDPE is
the in thing.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

On May 27, 10:54*am, Chalo wrote:
Jay Beattie wrote:

Chalo wrote:

I don't use flat pedals only on the clunker to go
to the bar, but all the time, on all my bikes.

My slow bikes are still slow. *My fast bikes are still fast. *You
could miss a basic fact like that if you have foot bindings on all
your fast bikes, and your only plain pedals are on slow bikes.

Grant Peterson (of Rivendell) and Roger Durham (of Bullseye) are a
couple of reasonably well-informed cyclists who learned for themselves
after long years of riding that free-footed was indeed better. *I
didn't need their insight to figure that out, but I'm not surprised--
both those guys have been willing to do what they observed to work
best, not just what was purported to work best according to race
results, tradition, conventional wisdom, or marketing efforts.

Enjoy those platforms, Grashopper. *Just don't tell me that I have bad
form for using clipless -- because if using clipless is evidence of
bad form, then the entire pro peleton has bad form. *

Well, how do you like your EPO? *You didn't say. *Since what works for
the pro peloton works for you, I mean.

That's a non-sequitur, unless you're saying that EPO makes up for "bad
form." Applying your logic, though, the pro peleton should be riding
platform pedals and taking EPO. Platform pedals . . . the new secret
weapon of the pro peleton! (cue pulsing music -- show racers pounding
up Mont Ventoux on giant platform pedals). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rzg3esJaaU


And if it were legal, I would take EPO. I'd have enough energy to do
all the yard work and paint the house in one day. -- Jay Beattie.

On May 27, 1:39*am, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° ""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" wrote:
On 5/27/2011 2:03 AM, Çhâlõ Çólîñã wrote:









Jay Beattie wrote:

Chalo wrote:

Joy Beeson wrote:

With cleats, I can climb long hills. Without
cleats, I struggle to get up Chestnut Street.

Poor form, too tall gearing, or both.

It's no crime to use a crutch if you need it, but it's still a
crutch. If you don't need it, it only invites chronic problems if you
use it anyway.

All those professional racers must be cripples, including track racers
with a leg speed you could only dream of.

I use crank lengths they could only dream of. *225mm! *My feet somehow
stay on the pedals despite the enormous centrifugal forces and
impotently comfortable shoes.

If you think you have the same performance needs and benefits as a pro
road or track racer, well, hats off. *You're a remarkable rider or
perhaps just delusional. *Maybe we can get you some erythropoietin and
oxymetholone too.

Joy isn't a racer, and doesn't have a racer's concerns. *But who
knows? *Maybe she could use some 225mm cranks. *Or some EPO.

I am getting a set of 150-mm cranks either tomorrow or Tuesday (per
FedEx tracking).

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

Pete, I feel for your situation. I really like SPD pedals & use them
as my only road pedals. I've used Spuds for ~ 20 years w/ an old
injured knee & a newly injured knee through it's rehab. Here are some
observations:
Numerous styles of SPD rubber soled (read Mbt.) /cleated shoes exist
including sandals. Some are more 'walkable' that others
The position of the cleat is vary adjustable. The judicious use of a
Dremal tool can increase this considerately.
I now use Velcro SPD Mtb shoes for fast on & off.
I have used lace up SPD shoes which look more like normal shoes, have
worn them all day & not had anyone notice they are not normal shoes, &
I've forgotten I was wearing Spuds.
I have crashed & had 1 or both feet stay locked in the pedal. (This
applies to Mbt / dirt riding.) I don't remember this ever having
caused me any extra pain or trouble. This has been very rare. Normally
both shoes/ feet come right out.
Sometimes difficulties in detaching from SPDs has resulted from
interference w/ the sole. A Dremel Tool w/ a burr doesn't help here. I
have a carving knife for wood working w/ a 90° hook on the end that I
drag across the offending area to remove rubber.
SPD or any cleats for that matter, can have the angle that the foot
sits on the pedal changed by putting washers under 1 side of the
cleat.
When wearing SPD shoes for walking the rubber sole wears down causing
the cleat to scratch linoleum flooring. This also causes the cleat to
ware more when walking on concrete.
Theoretically it should be possible to have additional rubber glued to
the bottom of the old sole. However I have never yet taken a shoe (any
shoe) to a cobbler to have this work done successfully. I don't know
why. I just get new shoes.
Usually when I have had a release problem w/ SPDs, it's been because
of ware of the cleats; lack of lube (I use Boeshield T-9); or lack of
cleanliness of the pedal or shoe in the cleat area. It's rarely is a
problem. It's not that hard to take a stainless steel toothbrush &
clean both areas & lube. After cleaning & lubing them, balky release
comes on gradually until cleaned & relubed. Depending on conditions 20
to 40 miles on dry dirt or 100 to 200 on dry streets. I never ride in
the wet if I can help it.
By far the worst problem I've ever had was getting a shoe lace wrapped
around the BB spindle. I believe I somehow got my Swiss army knife out
of my Camel Back & cut the lace. That was a mudder humper! Hope this
may be of some help, JD
In rereading this It sounds way too negative, & doesn't bring out all
the trouble free good pedaling SPD miles in between. Before SPDs I
used toe clips & cleats nailed to wooden soles. I love SPDs!

In article
,
Chalo wrote:

Michael Press wrote:

Â*Chalo wrote:

Your feet can definitely pop out of bindings--

They slide off other pedals more easily.
Furthermore, my feet never slip off my pedals.

If you ever fail to get the click you were hoping for-- and remember,
I and most of he rest of us have been there-- then your shoes will
skate off those silly little spuds like they were greased.

Does not happen with me.


and they are likely to
have some serious impulse behind them when they do. Â*That's an easier
way to get hurt than just stepping or slipping off. Â*So is being
trapped in your binding when you need to get out.

Never trapped; and I said why.

In a moment I'll offer video evidence you're wrong.

You cannot offer such evidence because what you
assert is not the case.

Getting our of
the pedal when necessary is simple, particularly
when the retention force is set low.

It's not as simple as just stepping off. Â*

Not enough---not nearly enough---not within parsecs
near enough to compensate for the safety of click in
pedal/shoe systems.

Safety? I'll get back to that.

Otherwise we wouldn't all
know exactly what I mean when I refer to a "clipless moment".

I do not know what you mean.

OK, here goes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97pQiVChhZw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nu6LZsV4D6M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVlFB59l4d0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDU1jkqltyU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-Db1lp1Ci0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4By7O7QIpWk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WScghpHah5s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFTeG_dI--c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9LyQF1cx74
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p66POO9eEG4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuF_F8VufdU

Ten minutes with Youtube delivers what all of us here already know
from direct observation.

None of those are pictures of me.
Click in pedal systems are safer than flat pedals.

--
Michael Press

In article
,
Chalo wrote:

AMuzi wrote:

Chalo wrote:

Poor form, too tall gearing, or both.

Joy Beeson wrote:

I'm still using the gears I had installed in Albany, when I frequently
climbed the Eastern Cliffs of the Helderbergs. Â*
I suspect that your other assertion is equally snicker-worthy. Â*

I smiled at that, enjoying Chalo's colorful writing which
had no application to my own cycling experience.

When I started riding in earnest, I had a barely passable bike with
plain pedals. Then I got a decent bike which I rode with toe clips,
as I did with a couple of successively better bikes.

I got an even better bike which I rode with SPDs. What do you know--
it was better, and so was I at riding it after so many enthusiastic
miles.

I'm sure that this pattern corresponds to many of us here. Where I
diverged from some of y'all is that I went on to get yet better bikes
and put even more years in my riding legs with flat pedals. There was
a period of adjustment, of course, as my feet became reaccustomed to
commanding their own destiny. But after that period was over I
couldn't make clipless pedals make sense to me again-- I even tried
some nice Time ATACs at length, but to no avail. It turned out to be
all (manageable) drawbacks but no practical payoff. I'd probably have
come to the opposite conclusion if I'd only spent a few days without
foot bindings, because my feet wouldn't have recovered their volition
by that time.

I won't be hoofing around town in crampons or ballet slippers
(splendid though they may be for their respective purposes), and I
won't be tying my feet to the pedals anymore either. Been there, done
that, as the saying goes. Unlike many "serious" riders, though, I've
also come back home for a more fully informed look at the basics of
life on the bike. I don't use flat pedals only on the clunker to go
to the bar, but all the time, on all my bikes.

My slow bikes are still slow. My fast bikes are still fast. You
could miss a basic fact like that if you have foot bindings on all
your fast bikes, and your only plain pedals are on slow bikes.

Grant Peterson (of Rivendell) and Roger Durham (of Bullseye) are a
couple of reasonably well-informed cyclists who learned for themselves
after long years of riding that free-footed was indeed better. I
didn't need their insight to figure that out, but I'm not surprised--
both those guys have been willing to do what they observed to work
best, not just what was purported to work best according to race
results, tradition, conventional wisdom, or marketing efforts.

The difference between flat pedals and click-in pedals is
not a jump. We have a choice of retention force. I choose
to have more retention force than a flat pedal affords and
you, as usual, deride my choice. You do not know me.

--
Michael Press

In article
,
Jay Beattie wrote:

On May 27, 10:54Â*am, Chalo wrote:
Jay Beattie wrote:

Chalo wrote:

I don't use flat pedals only on the clunker to go
to the bar, but all the time, on all my bikes.

My slow bikes are still slow. Â*My fast bikes are still fast. Â*You
could miss a basic fact like that if you have foot bindings on all
your fast bikes, and your only plain pedals are on slow bikes.

Grant Peterson (of Rivendell) and Roger Durham (of Bullseye) are a
couple of reasonably well-informed cyclists who learned for themselves
after long years of riding that free-footed was indeed better. Â*I
didn't need their insight to figure that out, but I'm not surprised--
both those guys have been willing to do what they observed to work
best, not just what was purported to work best according to race
results, tradition, conventional wisdom, or marketing efforts.

Enjoy those platforms, Grashopper. Â*Just don't tell me that I have bad
form for using clipless -- because if using clipless is evidence of
bad form, then the entire pro peleton has bad form. Â*

Well, how do you like your EPO? Â*You didn't say. Â*Since what works for
the pro peloton works for you, I mean.

That's a non-sequitur, unless you're saying that EPO makes up for "bad
form." Applying your logic, though, the pro peleton should be riding
platform pedals and taking EPO. Platform pedals . . . the new secret
weapon of the pro peleton! (cue pulsing music -- show racers pounding
up Mont Ventoux on giant platform pedals). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rzg3esJaaU


And if it were legal, I would take EPO. I'd have enough energy to do
all the yard work and paint the house in one day. -- Jay Beattie.

But not the initiative.

--
Michael Press