Teflon pipe compound?/RIP Open Pro Redux

I've used teflon pipe thread compound on spoke threads. I never had an issue with spokes loosening, but that could be because I also use a spoke tension meter. I never found out for sure but the teflon pipe compound never seemed to harden like SpokePrep did. It did feel like the threads were actually lubricated though.

Bottom line: I wouldn't count on it to keep nipples from loosening.

On Jul 27, 3:35*am, "
wrote:
I've used teflon pipe thread compound on spoke threads. I never had an issue with spokes loosening, but that could be because I also use a spoke tension meter. I never found out for sure but the teflon pipe compound never seemed to harden like SpokePrep did. It did feel like the threads were actually lubricated though.

Bottom line: I wouldn't count on it to keep nipples from loosening.

Well, we'll see -- I threw the wheel together last night while
suffering through part of "America's Got (no) Talent." I can say the
paste is messy. I'll true up the wheel tonight and throw it on the
commuter for some serious beating.

The deal with spoke tension is that the amount of tension necessary to
keep an Open Pro straight without goop (for a 200lb rider) exceeds the
strength of the spoke holes -- in the range of 120kgf. I basically
blew-up my Open Pro after five or six years. It should have had a
longer life, being that it is a disk wheel and doesn't get brake track
wear.

My replacement rim is a disk-specific Velocity Aerohead which is
touted as a "touring rim" -- but still probably too light (oh well,
we'll see what happens). One thing I don't like about modern, deep-
ish profile, socket-less rims is having to fuss around with nipple
placement (i.e. having to inject the nipple in to the rim with a
spoke). Back in the pre-Book, Mod E, five-speed days, you didn't have
to worry about dropping a nipple in to the rim and could build a wheel
during a single re-run of Gilligan's Island -- particularly if you
used a power drill as a nipple driver.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Wed, 27 Jul 2011 12:40:19 -0700, Jay Beattie wrote:

snip

Well, we'll see -- I threw the wheel together last night while suffering
through part of "America's Got (no) Talent." I can say the paste is
messy. I'll true up the wheel tonight and throw it on the commuter for
some serious beating.

The deal with spoke tension is that the amount of tension necessary to
keep an Open Pro straight without goop (for a 200lb rider) exceeds the
strength of the spoke holes -- in the range of 120kgf. I basically
blew-up my Open Pro after five or six years. It should have had a
longer life, being that it is a disk wheel and doesn't get brake track
wear.


The purpose for anti-seize/lubrication on the spoke threads and nipple/
rim interface is to permit the nipple to turn more easily. This reduces
the risk of rounding the nipple corners as spoke tension tightens. It
does not increase the amount of tension the spoke holes (on the rim) can
handle.

Stephen Bauman

"Stephen Bauman" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 27 Jul 2011 12:40:19 -0700, Jay Beattie wrote:

snip

Well, we'll see -- I threw the wheel together last night while
suffering
through part of "America's Got (no) Talent." I can say the paste
is
messy. I'll true up the wheel tonight and throw it on the commuter
for
some serious beating.

The deal with spoke tension is that the amount of tension necessary
to
keep an Open Pro straight without goop (for a 200lb rider) exceeds
the
strength of the spoke holes -- in the range of 120kgf. I basically
blew-up my Open Pro after five or six years. It should have had a
longer life, being that it is a disk wheel and doesn't get brake
track
wear.


The purpose for anti-seize/lubrication on the spoke threads and
nipple/
rim interface is to permit the nipple to turn more easily. This
reduces
the risk of rounding the nipple corners as spoke tension tightens.
It
does not increase the amount of tension the spoke holes (on the rim)
can
handle.

This is not being used as an anti-seize. It is being used as a
pro-seize -- something a little gummy to keep the spoke from unwinding
when it is detensioned. Running this wheel at 100kgf per factory spec
is not enough to keep my wheels straight without a little goop.
Otherwise, I have to wind the spokes up over 120kgf, which for the
Open Pro, is a hole cracker.

-- Jay Beattie.



--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to ---

Jay Beattie wrote:

:"Stephen Bauman" wrote in message
...
: On Wed, 27 Jul 2011 12:40:19 -0700, Jay Beattie wrote:
:
: snip
:
: Well, we'll see -- I threw the wheel together last night while
: suffering
: through part of "America's Got (no) Talent." I can say the paste
: is
: messy. I'll true up the wheel tonight and throw it on the commuter
: for
: some serious beating.
:
: The deal with spoke tension is that the amount of tension necessary
: to
: keep an Open Pro straight without goop (for a 200lb rider) exceeds
: the
: strength of the spoke holes -- in the range of 120kgf. I basically
: blew-up my Open Pro after five or six years. It should have had a
: longer life, being that it is a disk wheel and doesn't get brake
: track
: wear.
:
:
: The purpose for anti-seize/lubrication on the spoke threads and
: nipple/
: rim interface is to permit the nipple to turn more easily. This
: reduces
: the risk of rounding the nipple corners as spoke tension tightens.
: It
: does not increase the amount of tension the spoke holes (on the rim)
: can
: handle.

:This is not being used as an anti-seize. It is being used as a
ro-seize -- something a little gummy to keep the spoke from unwinding
:when it is detensioned. Running this wheel at 100kgf per factory spec
:is not enough to keep my wheels straight without a little goop.
:Otherwise, I have to wind the spokes up over 120kgf, which for the
:Open Pro, is a hole cracker.

So, why are you using defective rims?

--
sig 68

"David Scheidt" wrote in message
...
Jay Beattie wrote:

:"Stephen Bauman" wrote in message
...
: On Wed, 27 Jul 2011 12:40:19 -0700, Jay Beattie wrote:
:
: snip
:
: Well, we'll see -- I threw the wheel together last night while
: suffering
: through part of "America's Got (no) Talent." I can say the
paste
: is
: messy. I'll true up the wheel tonight and throw it on the
commuter
: for
: some serious beating.
:
: The deal with spoke tension is that the amount of tension
necessary
: to
: keep an Open Pro straight without goop (for a 200lb rider)
exceeds
: the
: strength of the spoke holes -- in the range of 120kgf. I
basically
: blew-up my Open Pro after five or six years. It should have had
a
: longer life, being that it is a disk wheel and doesn't get brake
: track
: wear.
:
:
: The purpose for anti-seize/lubrication on the spoke threads and
: nipple/
: rim interface is to permit the nipple to turn more easily. This
: reduces
: the risk of rounding the nipple corners as spoke tension
tightens.
: It
: does not increase the amount of tension the spoke holes (on the
rim)
: can
: handle.

:This is not being used as an anti-seize. It is being used as a
ro-seize -- something a little gummy to keep the spoke from
unwinding
:when it is detensioned. Running this wheel at 100kgf per factory
spec
:is not enough to keep my wheels straight without a little goop.
:Otherwise, I have to wind the spokes up over 120kgf, which for the
:Open Pro, is a hole cracker.

So, why are you using defective rims?

They were OEM on my Cannondale cross bike -- with that said, though, I
also bought Open Pros and Open 4CDs, GP4s, G40s and all the variants
since the Mod E because they seemed pretty good, and they were -- on
120mm hubs. Not so much now with the Open Pros on 130mm freehubs.
-- Jay Beattie.



--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to ---

On Wed, 27 Jul 2011 16:26:08 -0700, Jay Beattie wrote:

snip


This is not being used as an anti-seize. It is being used as a
pro-seize -- something a little gummy to keep the spoke from unwinding
when it is detensioned. Running this wheel at 100kgf per factory spec
is not enough to keep my wheels straight without a little goop.
Otherwise, I have to wind the spokes up over 120kgf, which for the Open
Pro, is a hole cracker.


The usual suspect for spokes unwinding is not stress relieving them. If
this is your problem, then thread lock will not prevent the wheel from
coming out of true.

Is this a rear wheel by any chance? If so, how many speeds?

Stephen Bauman

"Stephen Bauman" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 27 Jul 2011 16:26:08 -0700, Jay Beattie wrote:

snip


This is not being used as an anti-seize. It is being used as a
pro-seize -- something a little gummy to keep the spoke from
unwinding
when it is detensioned. Running this wheel at 100kgf per factory
spec
is not enough to keep my wheels straight without a little goop.
Otherwise, I have to wind the spokes up over 120kgf, which for the
Open
Pro, is a hole cracker.


The usual suspect for spokes unwinding is not stress relieving them.
If
this is your problem, then thread lock will not prevent the wheel
from
coming out of true.

Is this a rear wheel by any chance? If so, how many speeds?

9sp rear -- and I "twist relieve" the old fashioned way by squeezing
and side loading (and by avoiding twisting them up during the build).
I stress relieve per the Book, but these spokes are used and well
stress relieved.

Trued the wheel last night, put on the rotor and cassette and tire,
etc. (nice Conti rim strip) and rode it to work. It's super fast!
Well, not really -- and in fact, it feels a lot like the spare wheel I
was using (Ringle DiskJockey hub and Salsa Delgado Race 29er disk
rim), although you can't hear it ratchet from the next county. The
Delgado rim was a sale table purchase for my snow wheels, and has
gotten some dire review about lack of durability, so I'm waiting for
that thing to die -- but it gets light duty during the winter, so it
should last a while.

-- Jay Beattie.



--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to ---

On Jul 27, 3:35*am, "
wrote:
I've used teflon pipe thread compound on spoke threads. I never had an issue with spokes loosening, but that could be because I also use a spoke tension meter. I never found out for sure but the teflon pipe compound never seemed to harden like SpokePrep did. It did feel like the threads were actually lubricated though.

Bottom line: I wouldn't count on it to keep nipples from loosening.

Hello almost
I could say about the same thing, except I've used & use Spoke Prep. I
don't know for sure if it holds the spokes in place, but it certainly
lubricates both upon installation & loosening. The reason I know this
is that more than once I've stopped working on a wheel. The next day I
found the Spoke Prep seemed to pop loose when tightened or loosened.
In any case I know I properly tension my wheels & figure that the
added insurance of Spoke Prep can't hurt. The cost of the 2 bottles is
high but they last for a lot of wheels. It’s possibly a waste of $$$
but it makes me feel good.
My 2 cents, JD

On Thu, 28 Jul 2011 09:42:21 -0700, Jay Beattie wrote:

snip


9sp rear -- and I "twist relieve" the old fashioned way by squeezing and
side loading (and by avoiding twisting them up during the build). I
stress relieve per the Book, but these spokes are used and well stress
relieved.

Trued the wheel last night, put on the rotor and cassette and tire, etc.
(nice Conti rim strip) and rode it to work. It's super fast! Well, not
really -- and in fact, it feels a lot like the spare wheel I was using
(Ringle DiskJockey hub and Salsa Delgado Race 29er disk rim), although
you can't hear it ratchet from the next county. The Delgado rim was a
sale table purchase for my snow wheels, and has gotten some dire review
about lack of durability, so I'm waiting for that thing to die -- but it
gets light duty during the winter, so it should last a while.


How far below the top of the threads in the nipple (the slot) do your
spokes extend?

http://www.wheelpro.co.uk/wheelbuilding/spokes.jpg

This is an easy measurement, if you have a spare spoke. Just take the
spare spoke and thread it into the nipple from the top. Count the number
of rotations before it stops because it hits the spoke. The number of
rotations is a good enough metric. It's 56 tpi, if you want a standard
metric.

Stephen Bauman