Trikki Beltran's bad concussion and his helmet

On 18 Jul 2005 08:28:02 -0700, "gds" wrote:

I tend to go the other way. I think we'd be better off by forbidding
driver seat belts, and attaching a 6" steel spike to the center of each
steering wheel, pointed at the driver's chest.
The last thing we need, IMO, is to make drivers feel even more
invulnerable.

And it is insightful comments like this that add so much to the helmet
debate. And some wonder why your "investigations" are not universally
accepted as the gospel.

Interestingly, the rabidly pro-car motoring journalist Jeremy Clarkson
is on record as saying exactly the same as Frank.


Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

"Let’s have a moment of silence for all those Americans who are stuck
in traffic on their way to the gym to ride the stationary bicycle."
- Earl Blumenauer

It's amazing how, with one simple sentance, one can tie up a whole
newsgroup, isn't it?

Good thing he wasn't wearing seat belts..oops, wrong group :-3)

- -

"May you have the winds at your back,
And a really low gear for the hills!"

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

Chris'Z Corner
http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

Per Bill Sornson:
Depending on what "vanishingly rare" means...

A guy I windsurf with even wears a helmet when he windsurfs.

He's a orthopaedic surgeon with a significant amount of ER experience on people
that have been involved in accidents.

His take: "Remember, when you wear a helmet, it's against an event that may
occur only once in your entire lifetime."

I don't wear a helmet windsurfing unless I'm out in conditions beyond what I'm
used to - like winds beyond the low thirties - but this guy is no dummy and he
is so vastly-experienced that I've got to take notice of his rationale.

--
PeteCresswell

Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:

But there is no known case where cyclist safety has improved with
increasing helmet use, so obviously what goes on after the crash is
only part of the story.

This looks like a pretty serious overstatement of the case here. The
most thorough meta-analysis of studies relating to helmet use and
injury that I've seen is this one from 1998:

Thompson DC, Patterson MQ. Cycle helmets and the prevention of
injuries. Recommendations for competitive sport. Sports Med. 1998
Apr;25(4):213-9.

http://tinyurl.com/c7ek7

There are basically two types of studies on the topic, both of which
are examined in the above meta-analysis: one kind is the case-control
study. In this sort of study you look at people who go to the hospital
from bike crashes and divide them into head injury and non-head injury
groups. Then you look at variables that discriminate between the two
groups (like whether the person was wearing a helmet). Several large,
well designed case-control studies pretty clearly demonstrate that IF
you have a wreck, wearing a helmet is associated with a lower
probability of head injury. So that pretty clearly renders the
"torsional stress" argument moot.

Still, that doesn't demonstrate that wearing a helmet makes you less
likely to get a head injury; you might ride crazy because of the Magic
Foam Hat effect mentioned elsewhere in this thread. For that question,
the other kind of study is more appropriate -- a "time-series" study.
This kind looks at overall numbers of bicycle-related head injuries
over time, and correlates them with other events, such as introduction
of helmet laws or increased rates of helmet use. The data are mixed
from these. The paper above cites three studies from Queensland and
Victoria, Australia, and Seattle, WA. In all three head injuries went
down with increased helmet use. There's also a recent study showing
similar effects from a mandatory youth helmet law in California:

Lee, Brian Ho-Yin1 Schofer, Joseph L.2Koppelman, Frank S. Bicycle
safety helmet legislation and bicycle-related non-fatal injuries in
California. Accident Analysis & Prevention; Jan2005, Vol. 37 Issue 1,
p93. http://tinyurl.com/a2z3r

On the other hand, some studies fail to find decreased head injuries
with increased helmet use, like this one from New Zealand:

Robinson DL. Reasons for trends in cyclist injury data. Inj Prev
2004;10:126-127. http://tinyurl.com/coa95

So you can hardly say that there's "no known case" of improved safety
with helmet use, although it's certainly true that lots of other
factors besides wearing a helmet are important. Is there any study
showing decreased safety with helmet use? If not, I'd say it would be
wiser to err on the safe side.

Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
Interestingly, the rabidly pro-car motoring journalist Jeremy Clarkson
is on record as saying exactly the same as Frank.


And so you are now arguing that two (or more) ridiculous comments add
up to something worth while?

The discount factor on your judgement has just gone up a lot.

gds wrote:
Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
Interestingly, the rabidly pro-car motoring journalist Jeremy Clarkson
is on record as saying exactly the same as Frank.


And so you are now arguing that two (or more) ridiculous comments add
up to something worth while?

The discount factor on your judgement has just gone up a lot.

Perhaps Guy is hinting that Clarkson's audience was able to appreciate
irony? ;-)

I don't know how the typical motorhead comares with the typical
bike-helmeted handwringer, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were
more astute!

- Frank Krygowski

wrote:
Rich wrote:
wrote:

How about the ads showing four-year-old kids on
plastic recumbent sidewalk trikes, riding three miles per hour with
their heads about two feet above the ground, "safely" ensconced in
helmets? How is that logical?

It's getting them in the habit of wearing a helmet, so when they're
older and riding bigger and faster bikes they're accustomed to riding
with a helmet.

Well, if that's the objective, people aren't going far enough, are
they? The poor little dears are spending most of their lives without
helmets!

There are, of course, infant helmets on the market, apparently to
protect from the terrible dangers of learning to walk.
http://www.thudguard.com/

Why do they not show kids _always_ wearing helmets, starting from day
one? Certainly, that would do a better job of getting them accustomed!

- Frank Krygowski

What an inspiring cite/site/sight.

I think I'm on to a winner here Frank. Pre-natal helmets! I'm planning
the advertising campaign right now

John Kane
Kingston ON

wrote:
Perhaps Guy is hinting that Clarkson's audience was able to appreciate
irony? ;-)

I don't know how the typical motorhead comares with the typical
bike-helmeted handwringer, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were
more astute!

- Frank Krygowski

And constantly resorting to (weak) perjoratives like "... helmeted
handwringer..." is just more of the same. If folks don't agree with you
there is something wrong with them. That argument is a bit tiring-- and
not very effective.

You seem to be unable to accept that perfectly rational folks don't
agree with your position and feel the need to attack all in that
category in an ad hominem way rather than by relying on your arguments.

This is the same Helmet Thread that crops up from time to time, right?

Just checking.

-eric

gds wrote:
wrote:
Perhaps Guy is hinting that Clarkson's audience was able to appreciate
irony? ;-)

I don't know how the typical motorhead comares with the typical
bike-helmeted handwringer, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were
more astute!

- Frank Krygowski

And constantly resorting to (weak) perjoratives like "... helmeted
handwringer..." is just more of the same. If folks don't agree with you
there is something wrong with them. That argument is a bit tiring-- and
not very effective.

You need to understand, I've met people who were unmistakably helmeted
handwringers. That is, they were helmeted themselves, and they were
VERY concerned that anyone would EVER ride a bicycle without such an
obviously essential piece of equipment! Once in a while, I put up the
quote "Why, if only _one_ life can be saved..." Trust me, that _is_ a
quote!

However, I can't prove that precise attitude is held by anyone
currently posting in this thread. So perhaps I should apologize to
both the motorheads and to the helmeted handwringers! Weak pejoratives
must never be seen in Usenet discussions, Lord knows! ;-)

I'll also try to refrain from using "busybody" and "irony impaired" and
"overly credulous" and "propaganda victim" and "innumerate." But if
those slip out, keep in mind I'm probably talking about _other_
dedicated styrofoam hat fans (um... is that OK?), not the ones posting
here.

;-)

- Frank Krygowski