Mayo's team starts with 8 riders, not 9.

Hey,

So tell me why the Eskatel-Euskadi team will even try in the TTT. The
rule limits the loss to a maximum of 2:30. They will be that far back
halfway into the race. So why not just save the legs, and ride fast
enough to make any time cut? And now, one rider get's busted for high
hemocrit, and they are not allowed to substitute another cyclist, so
they must start with 8 riders, instead of 9.
There is some unfairness to the fact the Iban Mayo gets three rest
days, and all the other team leaders only get 2.

Thanks,
Ronde Champ

"Ronde Champ" wrote in message
om...
Hey,

So tell me why the Eskatel-Euskadi team will even try in the TTT. The
rule limits the loss to a maximum of 2:30.

If they go out with a bad start, they may then only be concerned about the
exclusion time, so you are right. Still, Mayo is strong in a TTT and they
have several other strong TTT members so down count them out yet.

They will be that far back
halfway into the race. So why not just save the legs, and ride fast
enough to make any time cut? And now, one rider get's busted for high
hemocrit, and they are not allowed to substitute another cyclist, so
they must start with 8 riders, instead of 9.
There is some unfairness to the fact the Iban Mayo gets three rest
days, and all the other team leaders only get 2.

I don't see the logic in that statement.


Thanks,
Ronde Champ

On 3 Jul 2004 06:20:09 -0700, (Ronde Champ) wrote:

Hey,

So tell me why the Eskatel-Euskadi team will even try in the TTT. The
rule limits the loss to a maximum of 2:30. They will be that far back
halfway into the race. So why not just save the legs, and ride fast
enough to make any time cut? And now, one rider get's busted for high
hemocrit, and they are not allowed to substitute another cyclist, so
they must start with 8 riders, instead of 9.
There is some unfairness to the fact the Iban Mayo gets three rest
days, and all the other team leaders only get 2.

Thanks,
Ronde Champ

The difference between 8 or 9 riders won't be that significant. It
depends more on the skills of the riders.

A few good time-trial riders in the team will be enough to make a good
time for the team. So, I'm not really worrying about the
Euskadi-Euskatel team.



Groet,
Arne Vogel

The guy kicked out (HC 47 but othre paremeters irregular) had been a last
minute replacement for another cyclist that got injured a few days before
the presentation. G.Gonzalez was apparently doing training in the Pyrinees
when he got the call about the replacement.


"Ronde Champ" wrote in message
om...
Hey,

So tell me why the Eskatel-Euskadi team will even try in the TTT. The
rule limits the loss to a maximum of 2:30. They will be that far back
halfway into the race. So why not just save the legs, and ride fast
enough to make any time cut? And now, one rider get's busted for high
hemocrit, and they are not allowed to substitute another cyclist, so
they must start with 8 riders, instead of 9.
There is some unfairness to the fact the Iban Mayo gets three rest
days, and all the other team leaders only get 2.

Thanks,
Ronde Champ

Bird wrote in message . ..
On 3 Jul 2004 06:20:09 -0700, (Ronde Champ) wrote:

Hey,

So tell me why the Eskatel-Euskadi team will even try in the TTT. The
rule limits the loss to a maximum of 2:30. They will be that far back
halfway into the race. So why not just save the legs, and ride fast
enough to make any time cut? And now, one rider get's busted for high
hemocrit, and they are not allowed to substitute another cyclist, so
they must start with 8 riders, instead of 9.
There is some unfairness to the fact the Iban Mayo gets three rest
days, and all the other team leaders only get 2.

Thanks,
Ronde Champ

The difference between 8 or 9 riders won't be that significant. It
depends more on the skills of the riders.

A few good time-trial riders in the team will be enough to make a good
time for the team. So, I'm not really worrying about the
Euskadi-Euskatel team.



Groet,
Arne Vogel


Absolutely! The fact that the team is short a rider will not be a
handicap. Indeed, it may help the team to go faster, depending on the
attributes of the rider of theirs who got booted. Mayo is not going to
want to give up time unnecessarily, as a "strategic sacrifice". After
all, even if he gets to save his legs with a bonus "rest day", the
Team Time Trial occurs early in the TdF, as the 4th stage. The
mountain stages don't start until about a week later, on the 10th
Stage Limoges--St. Flour. Thus, Mayo would not be able to exploit his
fresher legs.

Armstrong does have a point--the TdF organizers ought not give an
incentive for a team of riders to coast. It would make sense to have a
rule that stipulates that after a team has dropped 2:30, in can
continue to drop time at a reduced rate, by applying a simple
coefficent. For instance, for every second that a team loses **above
and beyond** a 2:30 deficit, the riders will only have, say, 0.5 of a
second added on to his time. So, if a team finished 10 minutes
behind, then the riders would lose 2:30 + ( 0.5 * 7:30)= 2:30 + 3:45 =
6:15

(Isidor Gunsberg) wrote in message . com...

...
Armstrong does have a point--the TdF organizers ought not give an
incentive for a team of riders to coast.

The problem is that there may actually a disincentive for even the
fast teams to ride hard because they are limited in the amount they
can expand their lead over even the teams which place close behind in
placing, even if not close in time.

According to the rules (you can disregard what the OLN guys have been
saying) a team could win the TTT by a minute but would only be given a
20 second advantge over second place.
Contrary to the erroneous "maximum loss of 2:30" information that is
floating around, the rule does not simply provide for a maxiumum loss
of 2:30, it provides a sliding scale to minimize the effect of time
and more or less equalizes all the teams by assigning an arbitrary
time based upon placing.

Of course under the current rules a team's *placing* is very important
so there is still incentive to be better than other teams, even if
only slightly so.

Summary of rules at
http://www.letour.fr/2004/us/reglement.html
Full rules at:
http://www.letour.fr/2004/docs/reglement_us.pdf

Here's the full TTT rule
Article 24 – Team time trials
(art. 2.6.023 to 2.6.024)
Teams start their team time trial at 5 minute intervals in the reverse
order of the team ranking established following the 3rd stage. As
soon as the 1st team starts, training is forbidden along the route; a
separate warm-up area is provided. The stage ranking is established
for each of the teams based on the finishing time of the 5th rider in
each team (to the nearest hundredth of a second). An identical time is
given to all teammates who arrive within this same time, even if they
actually finish quicker.
The procedure for establishing the general individual time ranking is
as follows:

[Here is the inmportant part]
Times for all riders are calculated according to the gap between them
and the 5th man of the winning team (scratch time).

If this gap is less than that given in the table below, then the
actual time recorded by the timekeepers will be taken.
If the gap is more than that given in the table below, then the rider
will receive the time of the winning team plus the additional number
of seconds indicated in the table below according to the place of
their team.
20'' for the 2nd team
30'' for the 3rd team
40'' for the 4th team
50'' for the 5th team
1' for the 6th team
1'10 for the 7th team
1'20 for the 8th team
1'30 for the 9th team
1'40 for the 10th team
1'50 for the 11th team
2'00 for the 12th team
2'10 for the 13th team
2'20 for the 14th team
2'30 for the 15th team
2'35 for the 16th team
2'40 for the 17th team
2'45 for the 18th team
2'50 for the 19th team
2'55 for the 20th team
3'00 for the 21st team
Riders who arrive on their own after the 5th rider in their team will
be credited for the general ranking with the actual time they took to
complete the stage. However, riders finishing outside of the permitted
finishing times (coefficient 6) will be disqualified.
As far as the general team ranking is concerned, the actual time of
the 5th man in each team will be the time recorded for this ranking.
In the event that a team no longer has at least five riders, those
remaining must finish the stage within the permitted finishing time
cited in article 22 (coefficient 6). The time recorded for the general
ranking will be the finishing time of the last rider in that team.
Riders from the same team are forbidden from pushing or pulling each
other along.
Food and drink will be supplied by the team staff from the sports
director's car at the back of the group, once they have reached the
designated feeding area.


DR

"Ronde Champ" wrote in message
om...
Hey,

So tell me why the Eskatel-Euskadi team will even try in the TTT. The
rule limits the loss to a maximum of 2:30.

So tell me when you read the rules?

in article , Ronde Champ at
wrote on 7/3/04 6:20 AM:

Hey,

So tell me why the Eskatel-Euskadi team will even try in the TTT. The
rule limits the loss to a maximum of 2:30. They will be that far back
halfway into the race. So why not just save the legs, and ride fast
enough to make any time cut? And now, one rider get's busted for high
hemocrit, and they are not allowed to substitute another cyclist, so
they must start with 8 riders, instead of 9.
There is some unfairness to the fact the Iban Mayo gets three rest
days, and all the other team leaders only get 2.

Well last year, only 6 E-E riders finished together in the TTT. So it
doesn't matter anyways. But Gorka Gonzalez was a flat-stage strongman, very
hard to come by in the Basque country, and so this will be a huge blow even
if it doesn't make much of a difference for the TTT.

-Sonarrat.

It is difficult to know if he could have really contributed much. He was not
part of the original EE team for the TdF but was called last minute to
replace (I think M Artetxe). G. Gonzalez was trainning in the Pyrenees and
had just finished riding the Quebrantahuesos (that is the most prestigious
cyclotourist "march" in Spain) when he was informed he should jooin the TdF
team.

"Sonarrat" wrote in message
...
in article , Ronde Champ at
wrote on 7/3/04 6:20 AM:

Hey,

So tell me why the Eskatel-Euskadi team will even try in the TTT. The
rule limits the loss to a maximum of 2:30. They will be that far back
halfway into the race. So why not just save the legs, and ride fast
enough to make any time cut? And now, one rider get's busted for high
hemocrit, and they are not allowed to substitute another cyclist, so
they must start with 8 riders, instead of 9.
There is some unfairness to the fact the Iban Mayo gets three rest
days, and all the other team leaders only get 2.

Well last year, only 6 E-E riders finished together in the TTT. So it
doesn't matter anyways. But Gorka Gonzalez was a flat-stage strongman,
very
hard to come by in the Basque country, and so this will be a huge blow
even
if it doesn't make much of a difference for the TTT.

-Sonarrat.