The Gerry Attrick bike: Mixte or Bent?

"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
[...]
Yes, the Dutch are the tallest people in the world on the average, so
Chalo is merely huge instead of gigantic by their standards.

The Dutch are also the ugliest people in the world bar none. However, the
Danes are not far behind.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Edward Dolan wrote:
"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
[...]
Yes, the Dutch are the tallest people in the world on the average, so
Chalo is merely huge instead of gigantic by their standards.

The Dutch are also the ugliest people in the world bar none. However, the
Danes are not far behind.

butbutbut [1], the Dutch make the best looking bicycles: e.g.
http://www.challenge-recumbents.com/html/index.php?taal=en&selectie=recumbentmodels.

[1] Gratuitous gdanielsism.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth

On Feb 1, 9:06*pm, Chalo wrote:

You might have a point, though, about the depressing nature of
traditional Dutch bikes:http://www.flickr.com/photos/cleverchimp/1589947928

Eh, I saw a vividly striking woman in elegant dress sitting on a
stately bicycle. Charming. I thought perhaps I was looking at the
wrong picture, so I clicked on the right to see a show of further
photographs. Smiling people, bikes in earth colours. Nothing
"depressing" about it.

What I found depressing was the intimation of mortality in you looking
for an opa-fiets, Chalo, not the opafiets itself.

Actually, there're a couple of other things I find depressing. One is
that the bike shop owners I know never smile and their customers don't
either. The other is that whenever I see a peloton of guys hanging
over their drops, or a single cycling by, there's never a single smile
of enjoyment.

Chalo

Why do cyclists have to look like suicides waiting for a place to
happen?

Andre Jute
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/B...20CYCLING.html

On Feb 1, 10:51*pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message

...

Peter Clinch wrote:

Andre Jute wrote:

In considering ordering a custom stainless frame to see me out, I
thought of the top tube and the obstruction it might be in time, when
after the nth hip replacement I can no longer swing my leg over the
saddle. Or of course, leglifting might be become non-PC and outlawed,
and bicyclists will be hunted through the streets with smokers.

Plenty of high performance bikes with low stepovers.

My interest isn't in high performance bikes even now that I'm whole
and and hale and hearty. One suspects that with advancing years one's
interest will focus even more closely on comfort and utility.

If you are not interested in high performance recumbents, then why the hell
are you bothering with the likes of Tom Sherman and Peter Clinch, two nut
cases who have never had a sensible thought about anything.

But. Ed. they are my kind of constructive nut cases while you appear
to be a destructive nut case.

[...]

Recumbents have other serious problems. I was never a bike racer, so I
never learned to pull on the upstroke and I'm not planning on learning
now. Cleats and shoecages and straps are a nuisance I don't need. I
get off my bike and walk up hills or into the library, so I just wear
fairly stiffsoled street shoes. The thing I learned about recumbents
in those half-dozen rides is encapsulated in something truly shiver-
making that Tom Sherman said when he mentioned riders "trained" for
riding recumbents. I don't fancy retraining for cycling, an activity I
consider should be fun rather than a socially acceptable form of sado-
masochism.

What kind of nut are you anyway?

Full forty score on the Hare scale. Beware.

Recumbents are made for folks like you!
There is no "training" involved other than learning how to sit on your dead
ass, something that we are all world class experts at.

Tom Sherman and Peter Clinch are nut cases. They always have been and they
always will be. Very funny that you haven't been able to figure this out on
your own!

But I did, Ed. I merely didn't need to say so.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Yes, I can see why you mother founded the Order of the Perpetual
Sorrows.

Andre Jute
St Andre the Patient

On Feb 2, 12:57*am, Tom Sherman
wrote:
Ozark Bicycle wrote:
On Jan 31, 10:35 pm, Tom Sherman
wrote:
...
The CF will likely be slower than the road bicycle but considerably more
comfortable.

Hmmm.....I do not find my "road bicycles" at all uncomfortable. And I
wouldn't expect a CF to be "fast", I have others for that purpose.

Well, one would generally expect regular cyclists to not have too much
problem with comfort - after all, true masochists are rare. Regular
cyclists are a biased (statistically speaking) sample when it comes to
judging the comfort of bicycles.

Despite the protestations of certain parties, I believe that there are
people out there who would be cyclists except for comfort issues;
therefore there is a market out there for something more comfortable
than a conventional upright, but is not as different as a recumbent. If
a substantial number of these people could be served with CF bicycles,
it would be of great benefit to cycling in general.

I used to wonder about that. But now I think there are a great many
other factors necessary for a bike revival missing, among a fuller
list that you no doubt know better than I do: general public attitude
to cycling (indifferent tending dangerous among the motoring public),
political clout of cyclists (zero), the growth of cycling facilities
(miniscule). The proof of my statement is clearly evident in the fact
that during the last fifteen or twenty years of economic boom closely
aligned to the environmental boom bicycling, surely an environmentally
friendly form of transport, did not outstrip economic growth by
multiples (Gofer Google, Carl -- bring us the relative growth
statistics).

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth

Andre Jute
"Garbage in, garbage out." -- Programmer's warning.
"Wiki in, wiki out." -- Al Marcy.

On Feb 2, 1:44*am, Tom Sherman
wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
...
Recumbents have other serious problems. I was never a bike racer, so I
never learned to pull on the upstroke and I'm not planning on learning
now. Cleats and shoecages and straps are a nuisance I don't need.

*
That is why I am such a fan of Power Grips for utilitarian bicycles -
inexpensive, effective and bloody simple to use:
http://powergrips.mrpbike.com/pg_benefits.shtml.

Power Grips work well on both uprights and recumbents with relatively
low bottom brackets (near seat height or less).

The most annoying thing about Power Grips is the "why didn't I think of
that?" factor.

I don't think I'll ever use them, but they are certainly a lot more
user-friendly than some other kinds of foot-restraint. This brings us
to another reason I don't expect a cycling revival. It is that
cyclists have painted themselves into a corner of insane exclusivity,
and not a desirable exclusivity at all. They have done this by special
postures and special clothes and making spoken and unspoken demands
that theirs be recognized as the only way which the general public
will not wear and have no intention of adopting themselves. Cyclists
and their activity would have to be much, much more attractive to Jo-
Anne Public for her to join in or to be happy when her husband joins
in. (Those who think the previous sentence is strangely formed have
not understood that we live in a matriarchy; that explains why they
can't get a woman and also why they are cyclists.)

I
get off my bike and walk up hills or into the library, so I just wear
fairly stiffsoled street shoes. The thing I learned about recumbents
in those half-dozen rides is encapsulated in something truly shiver-
making that Tom Sherman said when he mentioned riders "trained" for
riding recumbents. I don't fancy retraining for cycling, an activity I
consider should be fun rather than a socially acceptable form of sado-
masochism.

Injury type pain is no fun. Hammering until one is exhausted is fun. As
always, your mileage may vary.

My mileage defintely varies. Downwards. I am not tempted to race Nick
up an Alpine mountain!

Thanks for sharing your expertise, Pete.

Pete.

Andre Jute
Man is an upright ape for compelling reasons

I like having my feet higher that what I am sitting on. My ideal bicycle
has the bottom bracket about 25 cm above seat height.

I don't mind my feet higher than my seat when I'm watching a movie.
It's when I'm watching a woman who till last year drove a 2CV, and
that not very well, bear down on me in a Range Rover that's more in
control of her than she of it, that I starting hoping that St Peter
remembers I'm a Calvinist with a reserved place.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth

Andre Jute
By definition you can't be paranoid if you're a cyclist. Millions of
people in automobiles are out to get you.

On Feb 2, 1:50*am, Tom Sherman
wrote:
Chalo "99.99th percentile" Colina wrote: Andre Jute wrote:
Then I thought of the opa/oma Dutch bikes, which are low stepthrough
styles for ladies of a certain age and uncertain future. That was just
too depressing. (Chalo is looking for one...)

For what it's worth, opafietsen have top tubes. *They have higher
standover than any up-to-date bike frame of equivalent size, in
fact.

http://www.workcycles.com/workbike/b...azor/workcycle...

Here's the size that interests me:
http://www.workcycles.com/workbike/b...azor/workcycle...

Yes, the Dutch are the tallest people in the world on the average, so
Chalo is merely huge instead of gigantic by their standards.

You might have a point, though, about the depressing nature of
traditional Dutch bikes:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cleverchimp/1589947928

What brand of pannier?

Jasmin. That colour is sold out but you can still have the seagreen:
http://cgi.ebay.nl/Fietstas-Fiets-Ta...QQcmdZViewItem

Andre Jute
(standing in for the googlebug Carl Fogel, who's gone AWOL)

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth

"Andre Jute" wrote in message
...

[Quotation marks are messed up and from Google Groups as usual!]

On Feb 1, 10:51 pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message

...

Peter Clinch wrote:

Andre Jute wrote:

In considering ordering a custom stainless frame to see me out, I
thought of the top tube and the obstruction it might be in time, when
after the nth hip replacement I can no longer swing my leg over the
saddle. Or of course, leglifting might be become non-PC and outlawed,
and bicyclists will be hunted through the streets with smokers.

Plenty of high performance bikes with low stepovers.

My interest isn't in high performance bikes even now that I'm whole
and and hale and hearty. One suspects that with advancing years one's
interest will focus even more closely on comfort and utility.

If you are not interested in high performance recumbents, then why the
hell
are you bothering with the likes of Tom Sherman and Peter Clinch, two nut
cases who have never had a sensible thought about anything.

But. Ed. they are my kind of constructive nut cases while you appear
to be a destructive nut case.

They are only humoring you for the moment and will turn on you when
you least expect it. At least I am consistently nasty and unpleasant.
You can always count on me!

[...]

Recumbents have other serious problems. I was never a bike racer, so I
never learned to pull on the upstroke and I'm not planning on learning
now. Cleats and shoecages and straps are a nuisance I don't need. I
get off my bike and walk up hills or into the library, so I just wear
fairly stiffsoled street shoes. The thing I learned about recumbents
in those half-dozen rides is encapsulated in something truly shiver-
making that Tom Sherman said when he mentioned riders "trained" for
riding recumbents. I don't fancy retraining for cycling, an activity I
consider should be fun rather than a socially acceptable form of sado-
masochism.

What kind of nut are you anyway?

Full forty score on the Hare scale. Beware.

Recumbents are made for folks like you!
There is no "training" involved other than learning how to sit on your
dead
ass, something that we are all world class experts at.

Tom Sherman and Peter Clinch are nut cases. They always have been and they
always will be. Very funny that you haven't been able to figure this out
on
your own!

But I did, Ed. I merely didn't need to say so.

But you have to say so because their denseness is off the human scale.
How else will they ever get a clue? Trust me on this. I have been
dealing with these two nut cases for years and know whereof I speak.
You can get a hint about them from their confounded signatures. Now my
signature on the other hand is just so sane and so right. It tells you
all you will ever have to know about me!

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Yes, I can see why your mother founded the Order of the Perpetual
Sorrows.

PS. Only a select few wise and holy men can ever be admitted to my
Order - and never any women. They are just not sorrowful enough, the
result of not having any brains.

Andre Jute wrote:
On Feb 2, 1:44 am, Tom Sherman
wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
...
Recumbents have other serious problems. I was never a bike racer, so I
never learned to pull on the upstroke and I'm not planning on learning
now. Cleats and shoecages and straps are a nuisance I don't need.

That is why I am such a fan of Power Grips for utilitarian bicycles -
inexpensive, effective and bloody simple to use:
http://powergrips.mrpbike.com/pg_benefits.shtml.

Power Grips work well on both uprights and recumbents with relatively
low bottom brackets (near seat height or less).

The most annoying thing about Power Grips is the "why didn't I think of
that?" factor.

I don't think I'll ever use them, but they are certainly a lot more
user-friendly than some other kinds of foot-restraint. This brings us
to another reason I don't expect a cycling revival. It is that
cyclists have painted themselves into a corner of insane exclusivity,
and not a desirable exclusivity at all.

Yes, it is unfortunate that these people lack self confidence to the
point where that have to join an ultra-conformist group that attempts to
build itself up by denigrating others.

There used to be an excellent parody of this type on rec.bicycles.misc
that went by "Fabrizio Mazzoleni". "Fabby" is missed.

They have done this by special
postures and special clothes and making spoken and unspoken demands
that theirs be recognized as the only way which the general public
will not wear and have no intention of adopting themselves. Cyclists
and their activity would have to be much, much more attractive to Jo-
Anne Public for her to join in or to be happy when her husband joins
in. (Those who think the previous sentence is strangely formed have
not understood that we live in a matriarchy; that explains why they
can't get a woman and also why they are cyclists.)

If a man is smart, he does not get entangled with a woman financially or
legally. That way, when she becomes a nuisance, she can be told to sod
off. The most foolish thing is to become a sperm donor and provider to
HER children.

I
get off my bike and walk up hills or into the library, so I just wear
fairly stiffsoled street shoes. The thing I learned about recumbents
in those half-dozen rides is encapsulated in something truly shiver-
making that Tom Sherman said when he mentioned riders "trained" for
riding recumbents. I don't fancy retraining for cycling, an activity I
consider should be fun rather than a socially acceptable form of sado-
masochism.
Injury type pain is no fun. Hammering until one is exhausted is fun. As
always, your mileage may vary.

My mileage defintely varies. Downwards. I am not tempted to race Nick
up an Alpine mountain!
Thanks for sharing your expertise, Pete.
Pete.
Andre Jute
Man is an upright ape for compelling reasons
I like having my feet higher that what I am sitting on. My ideal bicycle
has the bottom bracket about 25 cm above seat height.

I don't mind my feet higher than my seat when I'm watching a movie.
It's when I'm watching a woman who till last year drove a 2CV, and
that not very well, bear down on me in a Range Rover that's more in
control of her than she of it, that I starting hoping that St Peter
remembers I'm a Calvinist with a reserved place.

So the SUV plague has also infested Ireland?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth

Andre Jute
By definition you can't be paranoid if you're a cyclist. Millions of
people in automobiles are out to get you.

The true psychopaths are rare. The inept herd predominates.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth

"Andre Jute" wrote in message
...
[...]

I don't think I'll ever use them, but they are certainly a lot more
user-friendly than some other kinds of foot-restraint. This brings us
to another reason I don't expect a cycling revival. It is that
cyclists have painted themselves into a corner of insane exclusivity,
and not a desirable exclusivity at all. They have done this by special
postures and special clothes and making spoken and unspoken demands
that theirs be recognized as the only way which the general public
will not wear and have no intention of adopting themselves. Cyclists
and their activity would have to be much, much more attractive to Jo-
Anne Public for her to join in or to be happy when her husband joins
in. (Those who think the previous sentence is strangely formed have
not understood that we live in a matriarchy; that explains why they
can't get a woman and also why they are cyclists.)

Andre, you are one of a kind nutcase. I am your typical recumbent cyclist
and I don't give a good god damn what anyone thinks of me, either on or
off a bicycle. Please tell us how you ever got so screwed up?

By the way, screw women - and that is mostly all they are good for
anyway. What are you, a man or a mouse?
[...]

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota