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#31
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Police pick on cyclist
On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 15:09:40 +0000, Rob Morley
wrote: If he'd given his name and address rather than acting like a silly bugger he'd probably have got away with an informal caution. Acting like a silly bugger can be a help. In my much younger days I had an interesting encounter with the police and played a silly bugger... My front light was faulty - it needed a bang on its side to get it working. At about 2am I was at a set of red lights very close to my home with a police car behind me. There was no other traffic and I went straight over. The police car followed, it flashed and put on its blue lights, I ignored it and turned into my service road and to my front door. The police parked up and confronted me. They challenged my lack of a front light, and I showed them that it worked. They challenged that I went through the red lights, I claimed they were green. The challenged that I did not stop, I claimed I did not know they wanted me to stop as I couldn't see behind me. There was a bit of other stuff that I can't recall. They asked for my name and address, I gave them my name and said (in a silly bugger way), "My address is here". Some nine months later I received a threat of bailiffs if I didn't pay the fine (I can't recall the amount) for shooting lights, no lights at night and failing to comply with a request to stop. I didn't even know I'd been taken to court. Because I had played silly buggers the police copied down my neigbours address, not mine, and I never received the summons (at that time a pair of prostitutes were living in the flat above mine and they had never passed on the court summons). Because I never had the chance to defend myself the conviction and fine were quashed. Perhaps I'm a lucky bugger, not just a silly bugger. ;-) **Troll bait** - I will welcome some relevant and pertinent statistical blurb from judith demonstrating that he has a clear understanding of statistics. I, and others, will read his post with careful scrutiny, and be so awed that we shall not respond. |
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#32
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Police pick on cyclist
"David Hansen" wrote in message ... On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 05:49:56 -0800 (PST) someone who may be calum wrote this:- "Officers told the 30-year-old they had spotted him cycling along the busy Tollcross Street without any lights on..." Read on to the next bit after the three dots, "But Mr Cimini challenged this, claiming he had left his flat with both lights working". It is possible that the rear light could have failed en-route without him noticing. This has happened to me a couple of times. |
#33
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Police pick on cyclist
David Hansen wrote:
I see that the police have picked on another cyclist in Edinburgh http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Cyclist-fined-after-three-hours.4747444.jp. If the report is true then the cyclist had working lights on his bike, though they may have been dim. Thus he was not committing an offence and the police had no grounds to ask him for his name and address. Thus the arrest was illegal, just like the fixed penalty notice. If "picked on" means "enforced the law"... yes. He was under an obligation to give his name and address - if requested - under road traffic legislation. Subject to the weird and wonderful separate-but-effectively-the-same-as-here legal system in Scotland, he didn't give his name and address when lawfully required to, the police would have been within their rights to arrest him (which oddly enough, seems to have been their view too). If it were otherwise, how could cycling law ever be enforced? But no doubt you will be representing him at his appeal. |
#34
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Police pick on cyclist
Daniel Barlow wrote:
David Hansen writes: If the report is true then the cyclist had working lights on his bike, though they may have been dim. There is presumably some threshold of dimness below which a light becomes illegal. Switched off - which is certainly a possibility and would be just as concordant with the reported facts - would certainly count as that. Or perhaps there isn't - lighting regulations for bikes have historically been a bit daft (c.f. illegal LEDs until a few years ago) and it would not surprise me too much to learn that it's technically ok to cycle around with dead light batteries. It is. But not at night. :-) |
#35
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Police pick on cyclist
David Hansen wrote:
On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 05:49:56 -0800 (PST) someone who may be calum wrote this:- The report states he was stopped for not showing *any* lights, The report reports the claims of the police. That does not prove that he was not showing *any* lights. It may be that the police simply failed to spot the lights amongst the general array of lights on the road, it may be that the police were unable to see them as the police were not in the right position (for example looking from the side), it may be that their view was obstructed by something, it may be that the police are lying, it may be that the report is wrong. All sorts of possibilities ....including the possibility that the police were right and that he was showing no lights, something he accepted by wisely opting for a FPN instead of a court appearance. and arrested for subsequently refusing to provide his name. The police have only limited grounds to request such information. If the lights were working then they had no grounds to request the information, unless one imagines that the lights suddenly started working. Although a light which has been switched off for a while may be brighter when switched back on I doubt if an exhausted light would make a comeback. "Officers told the 30-year-old they had spotted him cycling along the busy Tollcross Street without any lights on..." Read on to the next bit after the three dots, "But Mr Cimini challenged this, claiming he had left his flat with both lights working". Is that the same as "switched on", then? The lights on my car are all working (I can see it from here). But they're not switched on. He accepted a fixed penalty notice and therefore accepted his guilt. The police had already used threatening words and behaviour. No doubt this continued and the victim gave in. Many victims do. You ought to get down to London and speak up for Damian Green. Or perhaps not. |
#36
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Police pick on cyclist
David Hansen wrote:
On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 14:48:16 +0000 someone who may be Roger Thorpe wrote this:- And like many a person who thinks themself law-abiding, the middle class offender is shocked to be treated like a criminal or even "a vagrant". In this case it is not in the least clear whether the person was an offender or not. Yes it is. He accepted that by taking the FP. If the person was not an offender then the subsequent police actions were illegal and the only offenders were the police officers themselves. All meaningless - the offender admitted the offence. |
#37
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Police pick on cyclist
Light of Aria wrote:
"pk" wrote: "David Hansen" wrote: http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Cyclist-fined-after-three-hours.4747444.jp. Rough translation: "the cyclist got lippy and tried to be clever by shining the "light" in the officer's face" so they nicked him. pk That sounds like what may have happened. If you show Police disrespect they will go to town on you. Being a sociology lecturer he's the sort of person who might be a bit bolshie. Not necessarily. I used to know several sociology lecturers - one or two of them (OK, maybe three) were as you describe, buut at least as many were ordinary, semi-detached, suburban, pipe-and-slippers, Audi or Volvo-driving men. |
#38
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Police pick on cyclist
David Hansen wrote:
On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 07:12:53 -0800 (PST) someone who may be calum wrote this:- The report reports the claims of the police. That does not prove that he was not showing *any* lights. The report reports the claims of both sides. I didn't claim otherwise. But most likely, given his acceptance of a fixed penalty, that he failed to display lights at night. You think? Personally I think that it is the threatening words and behaviour. The police had already used threatening words and behaviour. Where in the report did you read that? The police undoubtedly used threatening words in their attempts to make their victim provide information he did not have to provide. The threatening words undoubtedly involved threats of arrest at the roadside. The threatening behaviour included assaulting the victim by placing him in handcuffs, taking him to a police station and putting him in a cell. There were undoubtedly threatening words during and after this too. I've often wondered what you might do for a living. I can see clearly now that you are an Edinburgh police officer. |
#39
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Police pick on cyclist
David Hansen wrote:
On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 14:52:33 +0000 someone who may be Martin wrote this:- I do think that as Mr Cimini was making had some lights on his bike, he should have just been given a ticking off, but then shinning it in the cops face would not help his cause. A police officer once shone a torch in my eyes, refused to point it at the ground when I pointed out that it is impolite to shine lights in people's faces and became lippy when I held my hand infront of my face to stop myself being blinded by the torch. You have a lot of run-ins with the police, don't you? |
#40
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Police pick on cyclist
Tom Crispin wrote:
On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 15:09:40 +0000, Rob Morley wrote: If he'd given his name and address rather than acting like a silly bugger he'd probably have got away with an informal caution. Acting like a silly bugger can be a help. In my much younger days I had an interesting encounter with the police and played a silly bugger... My front light was faulty - it needed a bang on its side to get it working. At about 2am I was at a set of red lights very close to my home with a police car behind me. There was no other traffic and I went straight over. The police car followed, it flashed and put on its blue lights, I ignored it and turned into my service road and to my front door. The police parked up and confronted me. They challenged my lack of a front light, and I showed them that it worked. They challenged that I went through the red lights, I claimed they were green. The challenged that I did not stop, I claimed I did not know they wanted me to stop as I couldn't see behind me. There was a bit of other stuff that I can't recall. They asked for my name and address, I gave them my name and said (in a silly bugger way), "My address is here". Is lying as blatantly as that something you are proud of? |
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