An open letter to Lance Armstrong

In article ,
"Chris" wrote:

"IMKen" wrote in message
...
Early this morning i was working in the yard. I rolled over a rock and
there was a sick looking whitish worm. First name that came to my mind
was
lafferty.

You reveal far more about yourself (that you do about Brian) by reacting
like that to someone who is critical of another, that is after all a public
figure and certainly not beyond criticism. I like Brian because his
articles dredge out the human sludge that lurk in this NG . Once in a while
they get so indignant they just *have to* defend their hero of heros, just
because he won 6 Tours with a US passport.

No wonder sports writers and others make fun of cycling. It is not the sport
that is embarrassing, but so many of the most vocal fans certainly are.

Well, cycling certainly doesn't have a lock on that behavior. All sports
have fans who get ultra carried away. At least I've never heard of any
cycling fans coming to fisticuffs over a disagreement about some
participant or other aspect of the sport.

--
tanx,
Howard

So far, so good, so what?

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Chris wrote:


You reveal far more about yourself (that you do about Brian) by reacting
like that to someone who is critical of another, that is after all a public
figure and certainly not beyond criticism. I like Brian because his
articles dredge out the human sludge that lurk in this NG . Once in a while
they get so indignant they just *have to* defend their hero of heros, just
because he won 6 Tours with a US passport.

You don't suppose this reveals anything about YOU, do you? "Human
sludge" is a really interesting phrase.

My difficulty with Brian is that he confuses belief with fact. He's not
alone in this by any means. Maybe Lance did use drugs, I don't actually
know. Neither does Brian. I suspect that you do not either. But we
might as well be talking about religion or politics here. The facts are
not actually relevant unless they support pre-established belief. It is
an article of faith that Lance has used. Or hasn't used. The
justifications and rationalizations about why anyone believes what they
believe or why anyone who believes differently is all F'ed up get
repetitive and tedious.

The believers believe what they want, the unbelievers believe what they
want and the agnostics wish they'd both shut up.


--

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Remove CLOTHES to reply

"Sierraman" wrote in message
...

There used to be a guy in Modesto named Gunner Caylord.

Wow, Gunnar Caylor, that's a blast from the past. I was a kid riding and
racing in the central valley when he was building frames for lots of my
friends. They were indeed very good frames. I rode to his house once and was
in absolute awe at all the cool unpainted bikes and tube sets lying around.
IIRC, he was also a very fast sprinter and would often ride the track in San
Jose.

Mark

"Mark Fennell" wrote in message
news:tITOc.1617$wz.798@fed1read01...
"Sierraman" wrote in message
...

There used to be a guy in Modesto named Gunner Caylord.

Wow, Gunnar Caylor, that's a blast from the past. I was a kid riding and
racing in the central valley when he was building frames for lots of my
friends. They were indeed very good frames. I rode to his house once and
was
in absolute awe at all the cool unpainted bikes and tube sets lying
around.
IIRC, he was also a very fast sprinter and would often ride the track in
San
Jose.

Mark

I been at his house while he pulled freshly baked frames from the oven. He
was a good sprinter, case in point, comes out of retirement with no training
and decides to enter the crit in Modesto to see how he would fair. Wins the
race in the final sprint, and not even in cyling shorts. He was wearing some
funky shirt with what looked like gym shorts from high school days. How
embarrassing for the pack. Looked like a banana head won the race. His
frames had cool colors, and like I said, he seems to know his stuff, but he
was hot tempered cuss.

In article ,
Howard Kveck wrote:

In article ,
"Chris" wrote:

No wonder sports writers and others make fun of cycling. It is not the sport
that is embarrassing, but so many of the most vocal fans certainly are.

Well, cycling certainly doesn't have a lock on that behavior. All sports
have fans who get ultra carried away. At least I've never heard of any
cycling fans coming to fisticuffs over a disagreement about some
participant or other aspect of the sport.

As an afterthought, I'll relate a story so you can see where the crazy
fans can be found. A guy I kind of know is a big fan of the Raiders. He got
a tattoo of the Raiders logo on his shoulder - it's a pretty big piece. The
thing is, in his version of it, the face of the pirate/football player is
that of team owner Al Davis. I see stick-and-ball team logo tats all the
time. How many Once or Mapei tats have you seen?

--
tanx,
Howard

So far, so good, so what?

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

"Howard Kveck" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Chris" wrote:

"IMKen" wrote in message
...
Early this morning i was working in the yard. I rolled over a rock
and
there was a sick looking whitish worm. First name that came to my
mind
was
lafferty.

You reveal far more about yourself (that you do about Brian) by reacting
like that to someone who is critical of another, that is after all a
public
figure and certainly not beyond criticism. I like Brian because his
articles dredge out the human sludge that lurk in this NG . Once in a
while
they get so indignant they just *have to* defend their hero of heros,
just
because he won 6 Tours with a US passport.

No wonder sports writers and others make fun of cycling. It is not the
sport
that is embarrassing, but so many of the most vocal fans certainly are.

Well, cycling certainly doesn't have a lock on that behavior. All
sports
have fans who get ultra carried away.

Yes, you are correct there. I really am comparing cycling fans of this
generation to the past cycling fans. You make a good point that I should
have for better balance on the issue.

At least I've never heard of any
cycling fans coming to fisticuffs over a disagreement about some
participant or other aspect of the sport.

And many many more examples. Point well taken.

"Tim Lines" wrote in message
news:gUROc.188144$a24.114480@attbi_s03...
Chris wrote:


You reveal far more about yourself (that you do about Brian) by reacting
like that to someone who is critical of another, that is after all a
public
figure and certainly not beyond criticism. I like Brian because his
articles dredge out the human sludge that lurk in this NG . Once in a
while
they get so indignant they just *have to* defend their hero of heros,
just
because he won 6 Tours with a US passport.

You don't suppose this reveals anything about YOU, do you? "Human
sludge" is a really interesting phrase.

Sure I do. Awareness is what it is.


My difficulty with Brian is that he confuses belief with fact. He's not
alone in this by any means. Maybe Lance did use drugs, I don't actually
know. Neither does Brian. I suspect that you do not either. But we
might as well be talking about religion or politics here. The facts are
not actually relevant unless they support pre-established belief. It is
an article of faith that Lance has used. Or hasn't used. The
justifications and rationalizations about why anyone believes what they
believe or why anyone who believes differently is all F'ed up get
repetitive and tedious.

The believers believe what they want, the unbelievers believe what they
want and the agnostics wish they'd both shut up.

All reasonable points (except your point about religion where facts are
always considered to be opinions). I understand Brian because I, like he
apparently does, try to post articles that bring the balance of the articles
back to the center. I don't feel I have to be balanced entirely if I see
that IMO that the conventional view seems out of balance. I think Brian is
tired of Lance getting away with behaviors that he should be criticized for.
At least that is how I feel and that is what motivates me to post mostly
negative articles on Lance where my total view on him is close to neutral or
perhaps even supportive of the great work ethic he demonstrates. During the
period between 1999 and 2002, I posted mostly defensive articles to balance
what I saw as unfair criticisms against an athlete that apparently works his
ass off and for sure does not have any unfair advantages. After 2002, the
trend was that more and more people began to worship him all while his
behavior and sportsmanship were in my view in a sharp decline. I strive for
balance on the whole.



--

--------------------

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"Howard Kveck" wrote in message

As an afterthought, I'll relate a story so you can see where the crazy
fans can be found. A guy I kind of know is a big fan of the Raiders. He
got
a tattoo of the Raiders logo on his shoulder - it's a pretty big piece.
The
thing is, in his version of it, the face of the pirate/football player is
that of team owner Al Davis. I see stick-and-ball team logo tats all the
time. How many Once or Mapei tats have you seen?


I've seen a few Campagnolo tats. No Shimano ones, though.

"Chris" wrote in message
...

"IMKen" wrote in message
...
Early this morning i was working in the yard. I rolled over a rock and
there was a sick looking whitish worm. First name that came to my mind
was
lafferty.

You reveal far more about yourself (that you do about Brian) by reacting
like that to someone who is critical of another, that is after all a
public
figure and certainly not beyond criticism. I like Brian because his
articles dredge out the human sludge that lurk in this NG . Once in a
while
they get so indignant they just *have to* defend their hero of heros, just
because he won 6 Tours with a US passport.

No wonder sports writers and others make fun of cycling. It is not the
sport
that is embarrassing, but so many of the most vocal fans certainly are.

I will say for the most part BL is civil, something lacking in many
newsgroups I suppose. He is entertaining sometimes too with his antics. I
think Brian is going to become really bored once his Lance obsession runs
its course.



"bobby carter" wrote in message
...

we can all learn from lafferty. nothing positive however. what a
miserable
way to live.

Don't forget to wipe your nose off before the start.

Howard Kveck wrote:

In article ,
Howard Kveck wrote:

In article ,
"Chris" wrote:

No wonder sports writers and others make fun of cycling. It is not the sport
that is embarrassing, but so many of the most vocal fans certainly are.

Well, cycling certainly doesn't have a lock on that behavior. All sports
have fans who get ultra carried away. At least I've never heard of any
cycling fans coming to fisticuffs over a disagreement about some
participant or other aspect of the sport.

As an afterthought, I'll relate a story so you can see where the crazy
fans can be found. A guy I kind of know is a big fan of the Raiders. He got
a tattoo of the Raiders logo on his shoulder - it's a pretty big piece. The
thing is, in his version of it, the face of the pirate/football player is
that of team owner Al Davis. I see stick-and-ball team logo tats all the
time. How many Once or Mapei tats have you seen?


As a road racer I have some road tatoos. (Unintentional, of course.)