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a traffic dilemma



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 3rd 06, 03:37 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
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Default a traffic dilemma

Assume you are making a left turn from a middle, left-only, lane onto
another multi-lane street.

How soon do you transit to the curb lane after the turn? Right away as part
of the turn? Or as a separate movement from the center lane to the curb?

Now assume not far after the left you will be making another left as
diagrammed by the purple arrows:

http://www.geocities.com/siklelogical/stone.scott.bmp

Do you stay in the center lane? [blue arrows] Or transit to the curb lane
[red arrows] and then back to the center lane for the second left turn?

If it depends on how far the second left is, then how far is that?



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  #2  
Old June 3rd 06, 03:49 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
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Default a traffic dilemma

"recycled-one" wrote in message
...
Assume you are making a left turn from a middle, left-only, lane onto
another multi-lane street.

How soon do you transit to the curb lane after the turn? Right away as
part of the turn? Or as a separate movement from the center lane to the
curb?

Now assume not far after the left you will be making another left as
diagrammed by the purple arrows:

http://www.geocities.com/siklelogical/stone.scott.bmp

Do you stay in the center lane? [blue arrows] Or transit to the curb lane
[red arrows] and then back to the center lane for the second left turn?

If it depends on how far the second left is, then how far is that?




I think it would depend on the time of day and how much traffic you had to
contend with.
If the traffic is heavy, I would simply turn left onto the sidewalk ride
against the traffic flow and not even bother getting onto the road for that
short of a distance.
I would have likely already be on the sidewalk on that side of the street
before the first left turn and probably cut through the alleys or parking
lots if possible and not even bother getting onto the roads or sidewalks in
that section.
If it is early, little traffic, then after the first left turn, stay in the
left lane and make the second turn just as though you were in a car.
Going all over the road like that makes you unpredicable and at higher risk
of getting hit. Taking the lane and staying in it would be the proper course
in my opinion.
You are only going a block or two there. Changing lanes like that means you
have to look for traffic, change lanes when it is safe, several times making
it more dangerous.


  #3  
Old June 3rd 06, 04:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
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Default a traffic dilemma


recycled-one wrote:
Assume you are making a left turn from a middle, left-only, lane onto
another multi-lane street.

How soon do you transit to the curb lane after the turn? Right away as part
of the turn? Or as a separate movement from the center lane to the curb?


Theortically as a separate move. I normally would make the turn and
then signal another (right ) turn to enter the curb lane.


Now assume not far after the left you will be making another left as
diagrammed by the purple arrows:

http://www.geocities.com/siklelogical/stone.scott.bmp

Do you stay in the center lane? [blue arrows] Or transit to the curb lane
[red arrows] and then back to the center lane for the second left turn?

If it depends on how far the second left is, then how far is that?


For anything under about 500m I stay in the left lane. After 500m it
becomes a toss-up. The heavier the traffic the more I probably would
be inclined to stay in the left lane. There is not need to fight one's
way across two lanes of traffic if one does not need to.

Nice diagram by the way.

John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

  #4  
Old June 3rd 06, 04:44 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
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Default a traffic dilemma

Earl wrote:
I think it would depend on the time of day and how much traffic you had to
contend with.


So far, so good.

If the traffic is heavy, I would simply turn left onto the sidewalk ...
I would have likely already be on the sidewalk on that side of the street
before the first left turn and probably cut through the alleys or parking
lots if possible and not even bother getting onto the roads or sidewalks in
that section.


Presumably OP is inquiring about vehicular cycling practices and
techniques, and if s/he wanted to avoid any contact with motorized
traffic, already knows how to ride like a kid.

If it is early, little traffic, then after the first left turn, stay in the
left lane and make the second turn just as though you were in a car.


That would be my advice (typed the Effective Cycling instructor
certified in 1980).

Going all over the road like that makes you unpredicable and at higher risk
of getting hit.


Uh, no, not if done correctly and the trajectory excludes sidewalks and
cut-throughs (why not pop a wheelie while you're at it?).

Taking the lane and staying in it would be the proper course
in my opinion.
You are only going a block or two there. Changing lanes like that means you
have to look for traffic, change lanes when it is safe, several times making
it more dangerous.


Much depends on the circs. Doing this every day as part of a commute?
Your fellow road users are likely to recognize you and your route by
the end of the first week. What are the traffic patterns like on the
pertinent streets? (Your diagram must be really nice, 'cuz there's too
much traffic there to let me see it!)

HTH

--Karen D.

  #5  
Old June 3rd 06, 04:56 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
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Default a traffic dilemma


"Veloise" wrote in message
ups.com...

Much depends on the circs. Doing this every day as part of a commute?
Your fellow road users are likely to recognize you and your route by
the end of the first week. What are the traffic patterns like on the
pertinent streets?


Not my commute but how I go to the library. I do have another choice. I
could transit through Stone Rd Mall using the roadway behind the mall
itself, which isn't too busy to enter the intersection from the north on
Scottsdale thus not requiring the first left.

(Your diagram must be really nice, 'cuz there's too
much traffic there to let me see it!)


Actually I noticed I had the opposite turn lanes screwed up and did a quick
edit. That and being a freebie website it's performance isn't great.







  #6  
Old June 3rd 06, 05:14 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
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Default a traffic dilemma

recycled-one wrote:
Assume you are making a left turn from a middle, left-only, lane onto
another multi-lane street.


Any time there is significant traffic, or complicated road manuever
requiring left turns, I handle it exactly the same way I would drive it
in a car. People give you funny looks when you're sitting in a middle
lane, in the middle of the lane. I think they are considering honking
or yelling, but generally refrain from doing so. Once the light goes
green and they realize at 0-20 I can match anything but a 'vette in
getting through the traffic controlled turns, they generally go about
their business as if I were a car. No complaints by either civilians
or cops, and our police department believes in keeping as many cops
driving around, showing the colors, as absolutely, humanly possible.
So they've definately seen me do it quite a few times.

The only thing I do differently, is that I always plan my turn sequence
so that I end up in the right hand lane after all is said and done.
Once through, I drift over to the shoulder or white line, then drop my
speed to let my heart rate come down from sprint mode.

But in general, the more traffic there is, the more you need to behave
exactly like something that everyone is used to dealing with, ie, a
car. As soon as you start to make exceptions for your comfort, you are
placing yourself in a situation where no one around you can figure out
what you're doing. That path leads to getting smushed.

  #7  
Old June 3rd 06, 05:58 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
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Default a traffic dilemma

"recycled-one" wrote in message
...
Assume you are making a left turn from a middle, left-only, lane onto
another multi-lane street.

How soon do you transit to the curb lane after the turn? Right away as
part of the turn? Or as a separate movement from the center lane to the
curb?


Depends on traffic. I have this sort of turn every day, turning left from
the #1 lane (one way street), but in two blocks I'm turning right. Traffic
is always fairly heavy; there's almost always buses in the #2 lane shortly
after I make the left. The question for me has always been at what point do
I position myself behind/in front of the buses, especially considering that
there's only two blocks (one a very short block, about one articulated bus
length long). It is really dependent on how many other vehicles there are,
exactly how many buses...I've been known to stay in the #1 lane after making
the left, and then cutting in front of the loading/unloading bus and making
my right, which feels fairly agressive.

Now assume not far after the left you will be making another left as
diagrammed by the purple arrows:

http://www.geocities.com/siklelogical/stone.scott.bmp

Do you stay in the center lane? [blue arrows] Or transit to the curb lane
[red arrows] and then back to the center lane for the second left turn?


No transiting; stay in the #1 as is.

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
http://www.bicyclemeditations.org/
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky


  #9  
Old June 3rd 06, 09:35 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
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Default a traffic dilemma

"Veloise" wrote in message
ups.com...
Earl wrote:
I think it would depend on the time of day and how much traffic you had
to
contend with.


So far, so good.

If the traffic is heavy, I would simply turn left onto the sidewalk ...
I would have likely already be on the sidewalk on that side of the street
before the first left turn and probably cut through the alleys or parking
lots if possible and not even bother getting onto the roads or sidewalks
in
that section.


Presumably OP is inquiring about vehicular cycling practices and
techniques, and if s/he wanted to avoid any contact with motorized
traffic, already knows how to ride like a kid.

If it is early, little traffic, then after the first left turn, stay in
the
left lane and make the second turn just as though you were in a car.


That would be my advice (typed the Effective Cycling instructor
certified in 1980).

Going all over the road like that makes you unpredicable and at higher
risk
of getting hit.


Uh, no, not if done correctly and the trajectory excludes sidewalks and
cut-throughs (why not pop a wheelie while you're at it?).

Taking the lane and staying in it would be the proper course
in my opinion.
You are only going a block or two there. Changing lanes like that means
you
have to look for traffic, change lanes when it is safe, several times
making
it more dangerous.


Much depends on the circs. Doing this every day as part of a commute?
Your fellow road users are likely to recognize you and your route by
the end of the first week. What are the traffic patterns like on the
pertinent streets? (Your diagram must be really nice, 'cuz there's too
much traffic there to let me see it!)

HTH

--Karen D.


I use everything to my advantage when it is rush hour with traffic jams and
such.
I consider sidewalks fair game at certain times of the day or night. Alleys,
empty fields, parks, parking lots, construction zones, industrial areas,
residential areas, apartment complexes, etc. I am not above using sidewalks
to advantage. But in some cities it is illegal to ride a biccycle on a
sidewalk, so that may not be a option in some areas.
There has to be some advantage to using a bicycle besides sitting in traffic
jams like all the motorists do. :-)
It used to be pretty good when you could ride in between the cars and trucks
in a traffic jam, but it seems like in the last few years, the drivers seem
to be getting a lot more sloppy and are blocking off the spacing between the
lanes. Sometimes it seems like everyone wants to try and see what is going
on up ahead, so they move over to the left more. Then you have those curb
huggers too. It is a lot harder to do it now. or at least in some of my
commuting areas. Of course now that everyone has big SUV's maybe it just
seems that way.




  #10  
Old June 3rd 06, 09:56 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
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Default a traffic dilemma


wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:


http://www.geocities.com/siklelogical/stone.scott.bmp

Theoretically as a separate move. I normally would make the turn and
then signal another (right ) turn to enter the curb lane.


Why a separate move? In the diagram surely there is one lane of
traffic turning into Scottsdale so it can freely split into whichever
lane it wants as part of the turn unless I am missing something about
local traffic law or practice. I'm curious as I was about to post
pretty much the exact same response as you except for this point'


That's what I do normally: Make my initial turn into the curb lane assuming
I'm not making a quick left again. I suppose the 'proper' manner is two
movements but I figure it's more expedient for myself and those behind me to
get to the curb lane in one movement as there is nothing to right to be an
issue... Perhaps a right-on- red coming the other way. But around here if
there is a left-turn only lane there is an advanced green that gives the
left-turner the right-of-way.

Staying in the middle lane for the quick second left... I don't see traffic
volume being the deciding factor. If it's heavy I probably don't want to
make two lane changes but neither do I want to be in the middle of it given
some kar drivers' blindness. OTOH if traffic is light transiting the lanes
is a breeze but then so is staying in the center lane.



 




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