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#71
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I am convinced bicycling is not safe
On Nov 16, 1:08 pm, (Tom Keats) wrote:
You can't dumb down a neighbourhood -- too much soap opera drama goin' on. I like that interpretation. With that in mind I'm a huge fan of these stylish big double chevron sharrows that are being installed in several cities. Encourage these neighbors to really get to know each other. |
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#72
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I am convinced bicycling is not safe
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#73
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I am convinced bicycling is not safe
In article ,
Harry Brogan writes: On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 02:28:46 -0600, "Edward Dolan" wrote: wrote in message ... On Nov 14, 8:00 pm, (Tom Keats) wrote: But my concern is about incipient new ridership who may be affected to any degree. The very subject line of this thread was obviously designed to dissuade people who may be considering bicycling. Then he throws in unsubstantiated, unqualified, unquantified, ostensibly hearsay statements like: "Accident statistics on bicycling are horrific per mile traveled." Great way to promote bicycling, eh? ... Well horrific is a subjective term but it is true that bicycling has per-mile injury rates far higher than driving. We shouldn't be too surprised by that. Most of the injuries to bicyclists (80%) are caused by falling off, wiping out, things motorists don't have to worry about. And then, when a car and bike smash together, only the bicyclist gets hurt. Bicycling may be a little more deadly than driving but neither is remotely likely to result in fatality. Motorcyclists have far worse fatality rates than anyone but better injury rates than bicyclists. Again it is easy to predict this stuff that is found in the numbers. Bicycling has benefits that can't be gained any other way. That's the difference that we need to get across to beginners or potential new riders, and what is often forgotten when people start talking about the danger of riding. The benefits dwarf the dangers. People who are safety obsessed about bicycling are probably barking up the wrong tree. There is no safety in traffic. The only cure is to not leave the house. People who are too paranoid to ride a bike on the street get in a car and go 80mph on the highway without a second thought. That's simply irrational behavior. But bicycling has its dangers and they should be acknowledged. Here in particular, the truth shall set us free. The truth is that bicycling is the superior mode, providing superior health benefits and other benefits as well as superlatively efficient transportation, despite a relatively high injury rate. And I think it's okay to acknowledge that, because of the unique challenges of riding a bike, bicycling may not be for everybody. Like el Banana for instance. Many residential streets are safe for cycling but some aren't. Same goes for roads both rural and urban. High speed highways with no shoulders are never safe for cyclists. Bike lanes are not as safe as some think. Bike paths are the safest provided they do not become too crowded. Ergo, we should all work for bike paths as much as possible. Regards, Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota aka Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota I have to agree with Ed on this. Working towards safer and better bike paths is the way to go. All to often we hear about the "I didn't see them" excuse. Bike paths generally don't get you to the butcher shop, bakery, cheese shop, supermarket, hardware store, department store, library, community centre or job site. At best they lead to pretty places where you can pick berries when in season, and snap some soon-to-be-forgotten pix with a disposable camera. Bike paths divert customers away from commerce. cheers, Tom -- Nothing is safe from me. I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca |
#75
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I am convinced bicycling is not safe
Tom Keats wrote:
Bike paths generally don't get you to the butcher shop, bakery, cheese shop, supermarket, hardware store, department store, library, community centre or job site. At best they lead to pretty places where you can pick berries when in season, and snap some soon-to-be-forgotten pix with a disposable camera. Bike paths divert customers away from commerce. That's implementation dependent. There's no particular problem doing one's shopping via bike path in NL, for example. So this highlights not a basic problem with bike paths, but with bike paths that aren't implemented by people who understand their use. No shortage of those around here either, but it isn't a fundamental failing that is 100% bound to afflict all examples. Pete. -- Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ |
#76
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I am convinced bicycling is not safe
On Nov 17, 3:48*am, Peter Clinch wrote:
Tom Keats wrote: Bike paths generally don't get you to the butcher shop, bakery, cheese shop, supermarket, hardware store, department store, library, community centre or job site. At best they lead to pretty places where you can pick berries when in season, and snap some soon-to-be-forgotten pix with a disposable camera. Bike paths divert customers away from commerce. That's implementation dependent. *There's no particular problem doing one's shopping via bike path in NL, for example. So this highlights not a basic problem with bike paths, but with bike paths that aren't implemented by people who understand their use. *No shortage of those around here either, but it isn't a fundamental failing that is 100% bound to afflict all examples. In America, I'd guess that basic problem afflicts well over 90% of bike paths. Almost all are linear parks with negligible transportation benefit, and nothing will change that. Within thirty miles of my house, I know of only one multi-use (or "bike") path that is mostly used as a transportation link. It's only a quarter mile long, and gets cyclists and peds through a dead end for cars, and into the village center. Contrast that with the much- trumpeted rail-trail, just completed, that runs through over 100 miles of corn fields, paralleling beautiful, peaceful country roads! Except for rare exceptions, you can't fit many utilitarian bike paths into our urban or suburban landscape. The land is already taken up. And the odds will always be minuscule that any given cyclist will find a bike path from his home to any particular destination. Yes, I know a dozen bike path fans will mentally object, saying "Well, I ride my bike path to XYZ!" But unless you're a statistical miracle, almost all the practical places to which you want to ride are off the bike path, and so is your home. And it's always going to be that way. - Frank Krygowski |
#77
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I am convinced bicycling is not safe
On Nov 15, 7:23*pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
"ComandanteBanana" wrote in message ... [...] The Internet was created so smart and civilized behavior prevailed in the jungle. But there still some alpha male apes that relapse to primitive behavior. Usually cured with a banana. There is no animal so disgusting, so vile that it deserves comparison to you, for even the lowest, dirtiest, most parasitic member of the animal kingdom fills an ecological niche. You fill no niche. To call you a parasite would be injurious to the thousands of honest parasitic species. You are worse than vermin, for vermin does not pretend to be what it is not. You are truly human garbage. ****ing Regards, Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota aka Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota You know, Big Ed (notice you are not Dr. Evil anymore) the revolution is... Well, the revolution is hiring people... -WILLING TO FORGO PAYMENT -WILLING TO SAY THE TRUTH -WILLING TO DIE IN THE LINE OF DUTY (ride a bike) -WILLING TO REMEMBER THE NAME OF THE REVOLUTION... The last one was kind of easy, wasn't it? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Taming the Money Making Beast is a job for every lion tamer. The art is in not letting yourself become lunch. http://www.simonfieldhouse.com/LionT...JPEG-large.jpg |
#78
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raise the money for bike facilities from the reckless drivers
On Nov 15, 10:49 pm, Harry Brogan wrote:
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota I have to agree with Ed on this. Working towards safer and better bike paths is the way to go. All to often we hear about the "I didn't see them" excuse. The person that hit me a couple of years ago tried to use that excuse....at first....but then changed her story to the talking on the cell phone excuse. Those need to be banned while you are driving the car. There can't be a call that's so important that you can't pull over to take it. __o | Every time I see an adult on a bicycle.... _`\(,_ | I no longer despair for the human race. (_)/ (_) | ---H.G. Wells---- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Well, Dr. Evil, wasn't the originator of that clever remark. He stole it from me... This is what I mean, WE NEED BIKE LANES, BIKE PATHS, AND TAME TRAFFIC WHERE APPLICABLE. We can even raise the money for bike facilities from the reckless drivers. |
#79
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I am convinced bicycling is not safe
On Nov 16, 5:05 am, Peter Clinch wrote:
Harry Brogan wrote: I have to agree with Ed on this. Working towards safer and better bike paths is the way to go. The usual problem with bike paths is rights of way conflicts where they inevitably meet roads. That creates junctions, and junctions are where most accidents happen. Go and spend some time in NL and you find that a fietspad, even as well implemented as in the NL, does *not* isolate you from traffic. However, in NL you find that the typical driver is a great deal more aware of bicycles than pretty much anywhere else you may have cycled, and I suspect that that is rather more to do with the low accident rates. It is actually the case that plenty of roads in NL don't have a fietspad alongside and, especially in older towns and villages, you may well be sharing the roads with cars. That these areas don't appear to be accident black spots further suggests that it's the awareness of many Dutch drivers that makes the biggest difference. All to often we hear about the "I didn't see them" excuse. And you hear that most at junctions, and with bike paths you've still got junctions. The person that hit me a couple of years ago tried to use that excuse....at first....but then changed her story to the talking on the cell phone excuse. Those need to be banned while you are driving the car. There can't be a call that's so important that you can't pull over to take it. It's illegal to use a mobile 'phone (hands-free excepted, not because it's safe but it's vitually impossible to detect and enforce sensibly) in the UK, and I suspect quite a few other places too. But you still see numpties on their 'phones, and they'll still be using them as they go past the junctions of bike tracks and roads that you'll have to use to negotiate a bike path network. Not that bike tracks don't have their place: there are several I use simply because they're plain /nicer/ to use, and that's reason enough, but that's not the same as making me safer. As for the thesis "bicycling is not safe", well, of course it isn't. People get killed falling over stepping in and out of the bath, so if taking a bath isn't safe why do you expect cycling to be? Check out the fatlities in cars, no shortage, so in absolute terms that's certainly not safe either. The trick is whether it is safe /enough/. Consult the actual accident statistics for your own area to find out who suffers how much in different places. At least in the UK cycling is actually remarkably safe when you look at the actual figures, even though the public perception is it's terribly dangerous. Moral of that one is you can't trust superficial perceptions. From a UK perspective (and it's not necessarily the same eveywhere, granted)http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/321/7276/1582gives a more balanced view than most people's perceptions IMHO. Pete. -- Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ Well, I knew the UK was a smarter place, not only because they have tamed traffic to a higher degree, but also because they don't have a Republican party. Anyway, this assessment about Holland seems to support my idea TRAFFIC TAMING, BIKE ROUTES AND BIKE LANES. Thank you! Regards, Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota aka Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota |
#80
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I am convinced bicycling is not safe
On Nov 16, 7:34*pm, wrote:
On Nov 16, 1:08 pm, (Tom Keats) wrote: You can't dumb down a neighbourhood -- too much soap opera drama goin' on. I like that interpretation. With that in mind I'm a huge fan of these stylish big double chevron sharrows that are being installed in several cities. Encourage these neighbors to really get to know each other. This neighborhood-community interpretation, relies on bikes, not on cars and, much less, on SUVs with tinted windows. These represent the American sprawl (sprinkled with McDonalds and lack of sidewalks). |
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